i decided to write up some more stuff before i could post again; ive been unable to connect until just now
anyway, here's the relevant events so far, updated with more correct/new entries:
- 927: Aethelstan, a descendant of Alfred the Great of Wessex, unites the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms under one banner
- 999: the Normans first set foot in southern Italy; during the first half of the 11th century, they fill the role of mercenaries in the region
- c. 1050: the Normans begin their conquest of southern Italy at Abruzzo
- 1061-1091: the Normans and later French invade Arab-controlled Sicily
- January 1066: Edward the Confessor dies and four different men vie for the throne; Harold Godwinson becomes king
- September 1066: Harald Hardrada invades *England but is defeated by Harold II at Stamford Bridge
- October 1066: William the Bastard invades and meets Gyrth and Leofwine Godwinson at Hastings, but is defeated while Harold II raises another army
- December 1066: Harold II drives the Normans out of *England on Christmas Day
- 1067: Sweyn II of Denmark half-heartedly invades *England and is defeated (but survives)
- 1068-1073: Harold II forms alliances with the other independent/autonomous pockets in *Britain, further unifying the kingdom
- 1085: Harold II dies and his eldest sons Godwine and Edmund joust [1] to decide who becomes king; Edmund ascends to the throne and Godwine is given authority over *English possessions in *Ireland as compensation
- 1093: Godwine and Edmund III both die and their younger brother Magnus becomes king
- 1118: Magnus I dies and is succeeded by his (fictional) son Aethulwulf; during Aethelwulf's reign, the balance of power in *England shifts towards the earls and Witenagemot and appeasement attempts were made towards *Welsh and *Scottish dynasties in the form of land grants
- 1127-1146: *English invasion of *Wales; powerful earldoms are established on the borderlands
- 1130s: *England becomes allies with the Byzantine Empire
- 1139: the French conquer Naples
- 114?: *English invasion of the Norman/French Italy; Aethulwulf began the invasion partly to help his Byzantine allies and partly out of spite towards France and the Catholic Church (because the Pope supported William's invasion in 1066)
- 1154: Sicily is conquered and Aethulwulf establishes a dukedom on the island, installing his cousin Henrik as the Duke of Sicily
- 1163: Aethulwulf dies and is succeeded by Henrik
[1] actually, the Witenagemot probably decided who became king, and the jousting story is more attributable to legend
One thing to remember is that "knightly" combat as we understand it wasn't fully developed in 1066, even amongst the Normans! They didn't charge en mass with couched lances, they hacked and slashed with broadswords and/or used spears the old fashioned way (e.g. underhanded thrusting from a standstill, or just throwing them as javelins). Against that kind of cavalry force, the shield-wall is more than capable of holding the field. And the Anglo-Saxons wouldn't even necessarily need longbows to thin out the Normans; if they just used throwing spears a la the Romans (in coordinated volleys), they could bleed enough horsemen to begin pushing back.
i already wrote up that the british reform their military along the lines of continental armies based on the earlier comment, but now that this has come up, do you and others think they would actually need to?
The Normans in south Italy was something that occurred through-out the entire 11th century. A loss at Hastings will slow migration but there are already a lot of Normans there anyway.
Considering what eventually happened with pike-shot, I wouldn't call it archaic. But I wouldn't call it that useful in general either since they could move their shield-wall for shit.
i currently have the normans moving at the same rate but the invasions being taken over by the french in the 1070s (who knows? maybe the normans down there dont hear about william's defeat before the french show up)
To get back to possible expansions of the Anglo-Saxons, maybe something involving Scandinavia, marriages and Denmark's expansionary wars of Baltic enterprises?
i think one place ive already written up as being a british possession later on is the faroes. i could see some limited british control/influence on denmark and/or norway
That could be interesting.
How feasible/infeasible is a personal union between England and Denmark (and/or Norway)? In the sense, is that manageable? There's a far distance between the two.
i was kinda thinking the denmark becomes an ally of france later on, perhaps during the napoleonic era, but considering that their culture and language would be quite similar to that of denmark, i could see alot of activity between the two, at least for a while
Well the main problems seemed to be distance, it was hard to spend enough time in all the kingdoms to avoid some breaking off or civil wars. It also seemed he ran out of heirs. Give it say, 2 more long-lived somewhat successful monarchs and you might have something more lasting.
so an anglo-danish alliance in the 13th century? personally i want to kind of keep denmark/denmark-norway separate from britain, but if plausibility demands some kind of formal union, that's where i'll go
A Hundred Years War - that is, a legitimate English claim to the French throne that can be prosecuted with a considerable measure of success - is highly unlikely ITTL, IMHO.
The Plantagenets were a French family, and their claim was about as good as that of the Valois - perhaps better. The Capets began to rule when France was an elective kingdom. While primogeniture became standard during their reign, those French vassals for whom the issue became relevant did NOT apply Salic law; nor did the English. The proposal that the French monarchy apply Salic law was a partisan maneuver by pro-Valois lawyers.
In contrast, a Godwinson or other Saxon might attempt to marry into the French nobility. But they will be perceived as foreigners much more than the Angevins were. Furthermore, the Angevins got really lucky in amassing half of the French vassals in personal union. That probably won't happen here.
okay, so a Hundred Years War like IOTL is out the window, but do you think a similar conflict over different circumstances could arise?