Map Thread XXII

TheReformer

TheReformer

image.png

The "Spanish" Armada

Okay, stick with me here. This was a funny idea that came to mind while making a much, much bigger map I'll post one day. But essentially, what if...
  • Constantinople falls in 717 to the Umayyads.
  • The Holy Roman Empire is created by Pepin, rather than Charlemagne.
  • Charlemagne then totally doesnt murder Karlomann and inherits a united Empire, which in absence of the Byzantines becomes the sole Roman successor realm.
  • The Empire resists the vikings better, so they obliterate Wessex and kill Alfred instead.
  • Britain spends ages divided between fractured Viking-ruled Kingdoms, and eventually adopts Christianity.
  • Andalusia meanwhile, for whatever reason, does not fracture and stays unified - and manages to beat down the Austurians enough that the Reconquista doesnt really get going (and instead adventurers spend their time fighting the Muslims in Italy).
  • After the eventual loss of Sicily to crusaders, Andalusia is cut off by sea to the middle eastern trade networks.
  • Following rumours that basque fishermen have discovered a new continent, an Andalusian explorer charting the African coast to find a new way to India discovers Brazil.
  • Long story short, they eventually find a Nahuatl Kingdom (keeping in mind that this is in more like 1580), which is so horrendously barbaric that the Umayyad Caliphate in Andalusia re-adopts it's mission of holy conquest and forced conversion and invades in the name of Islam.
  • As a result, Andalusia also thus becomes ludicrously wealthy, while the Christian states (which ittl do not innovate as the Empire like China has a 'mandate of heaven' and thus Europe rarely goes to war, instead only really facing conflict at it's peripheries and internal squabbles), do not colonize.
  • A now mostly unified England (Ænklat) meanwhile begins, as per OTL, harassing Andalusian trade from the new world.
  • As a result, a pissed off Caliph decides to invade.
And the rest, as they say, is history.
 
Last edited:
artificialCartographer

artificialCartographer

TheReformer said:
image.png


The "Spanish" Armada

Okay, stick with me here. This was a funny idea that came to mind while making a much, much bigger map I'll post one day. But essentially, what if...
  • Constantinople falls in 717 to the Umayyads.
  • The Holy Roman Empire is created by Pepin, rather than Charlemagne.
  • Charlemagne then totally doesnt murder Karlomann and inherits a united Empire, which in absence of the Byzantines becomes the sole Roman successor realm.
  • The Empire resists the vikings better, so they obliterate Wessex and kill Alfred instead.
  • Britain spends ages divided between fractured Viking-ruled Kingdoms, and eventually adopts Christianity.
  • Andalusia meanwhile, for whatever reason, does not fracture and stays unified - and manages to beat down the Austurians enough that the Reconquista doesnt really get going (and instead adventurers spend their time fighting the Muslims in Italy).
  • After the eventual loss of Sicily to crusaders, Andalusia is cut off by sea to the middle eastern trade networks.
  • Following rumours that basque fishermen have discovered a new continent, an Andalusian explorer charting the African coast to find a new way to India discovers Brazil.
  • Long story short, they eventually find a Nahuatl Kingdom (keeping in mind that this is in more like 1580), which is so horrendously barbaric that the Umayyad Caliphate in Andalusia re-adopts it's mission of holy conquest and forced conversion and invades in the name of Islam.
  • As a result, Andalusia also thus becomes ludicrously wealthy, while the Christian states (which ittl do not innovate as the Empire like China has a 'mandate of heaven' and thus Europe rarely goes to war, instead only really facing conflict at it's peripheries and internal squabbles), do not colonize.
  • A now mostly unified England (Ænklat) meanwhile begins, as per OTL, harassing Andalusian trade from the new world.
  • As a result, a pissed off Caliph decides to invade.
And the rest, as they say, is history.
Click to expand...
this seems like a pretty cool map, but there's a problem: it's a little too small so the text is hard to read
 

Merovingian

Aron MacEanraig said:
Is it a federal state? Anything on its administrative or political structure? Are they using Russian or Alaskan symbols or a mixture of them? How come Moscow didn't attack Alaska during WWII? What do you think will happen in the near future, when the Northwest Passage becomes navigable and the Bering Strait will become a major shipping channel? What's Alaska's position or role in the Russian-Ukrainian War (if there's one in TTL as well), are Russian oligarchs trying to claim refugee status in Alaska?
Surprising that the country remained a vacuum and was let to develop mostly on its own. Its pre-1954 history sounds a bit like white anarchy? Would be happy to watch a timeline if you have more! Basically a less left leaning, Russian speaking Cascadia.
Click to expand...
Alaska is divided into governates, which have roughly the same level of autonomy as American states or Canadian provinces IOTL. There is no Russo-Ukrainian War ITTL, not was there really a WWII for that matter. WWI(still mostly known as the Great War ITTL) resulted in a Central Powers victory. The Russian Civil War happened mostly as OTL, save the White holdout in Alaska and the Soviets not having the territory that they lost in the Teaty of Brest-Litovsk. As for the other Entente powers, France also fell into a red-white civil war, although there the anti-communists won and established a quasi-fascist dictatorship that would in turn fall after an alternate Algerian War, Britain made peace with Germany and entered a period of isolationism, and America stayed neutral.

Russia begins to diverge after Lenin’s death, when he was succeeded not by Stalin but by Bukharin, who fully implemented the New Economic Plan and reformed the Soviet economy along more or less Dengist lines while remaining an authoritarian one party state. While Bukharin’s regime still used gulags and conducted purges against Trotskyists, Old Bolsheviks, and other internal rivals, without OTL’s forced industrialization and collectivization the death toll wasn’t quite as high. The Pacific War happened more or less as OTL, and after the war the US allied with Germany and its allies to contain the Soviet Union. Due to being spared the worst excesses of Stalin’s misrule and having reformed its economic system early on, the Soviet Union survives to this day. At the same time, it is in a noticeably weaker position than OTL, with the various Central and Eastrn European states created by Brest-Litovsk to the west and an American-allied KMT China to the south and east, and as a result tends to take a more belligerent position on the international stage. I admit that this isn’t the most realistic scenario, but I’ve always liked the idea of an Alaska that never gets sold turning into a White Russian Taiwan equivalent.
 
KolyenuKS

KolyenuKS

1705968198333.png

the members and associates of the European Defense Community (note: does not include any non-state associates, nor any members of the African Economic Union, South East Asian Defense Community, Havana Pact, or any nations that the United States of America has declared a Major Neutral Benefactor). The Current Year's 1981, a few months before the South African War.
French Fourth Republic+
Second Spanish Republic+
Federal Republic of Germany+
Socialist Republic of Italy+
Socialist Republic of Portugal+
Republic of Belgium+
Socialist Republic of Hungary+
Free and Sovereign Republic of Ireland+
Federal Republic of Yugoslavia+
Republic of San Marino+
Kingdom of the Netherlands-Indonesia
Grand Duchy of Luxembourg
Principality of Andorra
+ = fully socialist/euro-communist nations
 
artificialCartographer

artificialCartographer

KolyenuKS said:
View attachment 883406
the members and associates of the European Defense Community (note: does not include any non-state associates, nor any members of the African Economic Union, South East Asian Defense Community, Havana Pact, or any nations that the United States of America has declared a Major Neutral Benefactor). The Current Year's 1981, a few months before the South African War.
French Fourth Republic+
Second Spanish Republic+
Federal Republic of Germany+
Socialist Republic of Italy+
Socialist Republic of Portugal+
Republic of Belgium+
Socialist Republic of Hungary+
Free and Sovereign Republic of Ireland+
Federal Republic of Yugoslavia+
Republic of San Marino+
Kingdom of the Netherlands-Indonesia
Grand Duchy of Luxembourg
Principality of Andorra
+ = fully socialist/euro-communist nations
Click to expand...
potentially dumb question, what's the deal with the commonwealth and why is it blue?
 
Višeslav

Višeslav

KolyenuKS said:
View attachment 883406
the members and associates of the European Defense Community (note: does not include any non-state associates, nor any members of the African Economic Union, South East Asian Defense Community, Havana Pact, or any nations that the United States of America has declared a Major Neutral Benefactor). The Current Year's 1981, a few months before the South African War.
French Fourth Republic+
Second Spanish Republic+
Federal Republic of Germany+
Socialist Republic of Italy+
Socialist Republic of Portugal+
Republic of Belgium+
Socialist Republic of Hungary+
Free and Sovereign Republic of Ireland+
Federal Republic of Yugoslavia+
Republic of San Marino+
Kingdom of the Netherlands-Indonesia
Grand Duchy of Luxembourg
Principality of Andorra
+ = fully socialist/euro-communist nations
Click to expand...
Long live free Šopluk I guess.
 

Jürgen

TheReformer said:
image.png

The "Spanish" Armada

Okay, stick with me here. This was a funny idea that came to mind while making a much, much bigger map I'll post one day. But essentially, what if...
  • Constantinople falls in 717 to the Umayyads.
  • The Holy Roman Empire is created by Pepin, rather than Charlemagne.
  • Charlemagne then totally doesnt murder Karlomann and inherits a united Empire, which in absence of the Byzantines becomes the sole Roman successor realm.
  • The Empire resists the vikings better, so they obliterate Wessex and kill Alfred instead.
  • Britain spends ages divided between fractured Viking-ruled Kingdoms, and eventually adopts Christianity.
  • Andalusia meanwhile, for whatever reason, does not fracture and stays unified - and manages to beat down the Austurians enough that the Reconquista doesnt really get going (and instead adventurers spend their time fighting the Muslims in Italy).
  • After the eventual loss of Sicily to crusaders, Andalusia is cut off by sea to the middle eastern trade networks.
  • Following rumours that basque fishermen have discovered a new continent, an Andalusian explorer charting the African coast to find a new way to India discovers Brazil.
  • Long story short, they eventually find a Nahuatl Kingdom (keeping in mind that this is in more like 1580), which is so horrendously barbaric that the Umayyad Caliphate in Andalusia re-adopts it's mission of holy conquest and forced conversion and invades in the name of Islam.
  • As a result, Andalusia also thus becomes ludicrously wealthy, while the Christian states (which ittl do not innovate as the Empire like China has a 'mandate of heaven' and thus Europe rarely goes to war, instead only really facing conflict at it's peripheries and internal squabbles), do not colonize.
  • A now mostly unified England (Ænklat) meanwhile begins, as per OTL, harassing Andalusian trade from the new world.
  • As a result, a pissed off Caliph decides to invade.
And the rest, as they say, is history.
Click to expand...

Interesting, through I‘m not a fan of the name, I have a hard time seeing how England could develop in the Ænglat, the Æng is fine but I have a hard time seeing “nd” sound becoming a “t”, when different Germanic language use “t” in one language and ”d” in another it’s because they both descend from the “th“ sound. ”nd” on the other hand is a radical different sound and have usually developed into either a “n” or “nn” (which indicate a vowel shift before the non) sound. So a more likely name would be Ænglann.
 

Aenea Clivana

Danforshow1.png

The Union of Lumara, it's tributaries, and it's allies in the year 1542. This is a mostly ASB timeline focused on making a more diverse Europe, and in particular Iberia. In 1542 Iberia is inhabited by celtic, romance, vasconic, iberian, and tartessian peoples with minority semitic, greek, and jewish populations. There's not much lore currently. My main idea for this timeline is that the Roman empire has more competitors such as Carthage, Gaul, and Celitberia which developed into more cohesive nation states in part due to the arrival of magic on Earth. While they do ultimately conquer these peoples, they remain largely non-Latinized. I intend to develop later maps of this nation and it's expansion, along with colonies in the new world.
 
KolyenuKS

KolyenuKS

artificialCartographer said:
potentially dumb question, what's the deal with the commonwealth and why is it blue?
Click to expand...
the Commonwealth of Nations (a reformed British Empire, much smaller, but more anglo) is officially a Liberal Republic, although they lean socialist at times. They're blue to contrast against the mainland, as they're mainly only an associate because of their anti-communist viewpoints (and the fact that they're closer to SEADC)
Višeslav said:
Long live free Šopluk I guess.
Click to expand...
West Bulgaria (officially the Republic of Bulgaria) was liberated by a Bulgarian-Yugoslavian partisan effort, and after a short civil war, joined Yugoslavia after breaking off of the rest of bulgaria (whose capital is Sliven, in a compromise between the borderlands and the coast)
 
Black

Black

1705979354833.png


Quick little map I made for fun. POV around the fall of Western Roman Empire. Focus was mostly on different migrations. Map is outside of my area of expertise so was a way for me to research the time period a little bit more.
 

Aichi72

Analytical Engine said:
I have...several questions...

But the most pressing one is - how did Paraguay get so big?
Click to expand...
The Great Southern War (actually a series of separate wars that Anglophone historians tend to lump together) in the late 1950s saw Brazil-Paraguay-Chile-Ecuador pitted against Peru-Bolivia-Argentina and Brazil's alliance won due in part to greater American support for that side.
 

Kaiser1871

NoNile — копия.png

Whispers of the desert, the Gift lost [~400 BCE]​


[This is a draft. Nathaniel, please re-read, correct the errors, and remove anything censore-unfriendly. Thank you in advance]

Dear Council,
The BL-77 'Moral Hazard' research team reports their progress on the world of TL-051, nicknamed No Nile. After four months of research, we are ready to proudly announce the following facts:
  1. The P.O.D. is the turn of the Nile River to the east due to an unknown natural disaster sometimes at the end of the African humid period. Such points are always interesting to the esteemed Council due to their rarity; geological and natural divergences are isolated cases. Our geologists, led by professor Sofia Martinez, are already studying the location of the supposed break in the flow, but so far they are far from making any conclusions about the nature of such an anomaly.
    I had the honor to read the reports of Dr. Tristan Bauer from the Quantum Reality Research Group on the world where the Nile turned west in the Pre-Nile period. Based on his text, I can conclude that he managed to find the answer to the Nile's turn, so I request access to a classified section of his work.
  2. This is the first found world whose timeline lags behind the Baseline chronology by more than two thousand years. This finally makes professor Prudon's theory of a single multiuniversal time obsolete. Our team’s scientist, Dr. Anastasia Korovina-Lepekha, has already created a theory about the uneven birth of the multiverse. You can read it in the attached file [Don't forget to attach it].
  3. The lack of widespread technology for papyrus production, as well as the more primitive 'Syrian' alphabet, led to a wide technological lag of this universe. The concentration of rough parchment-like paper in only temples and palaces significantly slowed down this world both commercially and culturally; while the less flexible variation of the alphabet prevented the 'modernization from below' through merchants and craftsmen. Even though it is the 5th century BCE [Add other accepted dates], technological progress is stuck at the 9th century BCE level. The local Bronze Age Collapse is not yet over.
  4. Without a doubt, being in this time period will help us shed light on the blind spots of the many worlds' ancient history. We can access a lot of historical records lost in the depths of Mesopotamia in other universes. It is also an opportunity to study ancient languages that died out elsewhere; for example, the languages of the Hurrito-Urartian family. Undercover agents of commandor Kuka Pari are collecting important data; and the linguists team of professor Mbow (Martin) Lugande is already working on their translation. [Damn, I heard that they just found a universe where these languages survived to the present day, check it out].

I suggest you read the report below on the main states of the Middle East and Mediterranean. I will use our internal names for ease of reading.

  • Neo-Hittite Empire: the Bronze Age Collapse (BAC) and the local 'sea peoples' marched through the Fertile Crescent with fire and sword. In the end, only ruined cities and feuding warlords left. In this world, neither Assur nor the other Mesopotamian cities were able to bring a semblance of order to this mess, so the Hittites from one of the Syrian fragments of their fallen empire took on the burden of bloody civilizators. They are not as brutal as the Assyrians from most timelines, but don't let that fool you - Neo-Hittites suppress uprisings with no less bloodshed.
  • Kanaan coast: the alternate post-BAC ethnogenesis led to a radically different situation in the region; almost all coastal Levantine cities became maritime thalasocracies. Of course, the absence of Egyptian civilization and lack of trade routes crossing significantly weakened its potential. In the first centuries after the BAC, local peoples, a mixture of Semites and 'sea peoples', engaged in piracy activity and the slave trade throughout the entire eastern Mediterranean to as far as Italy. Eventually, money and leaders with a big sticks won and the Kanaan became a mercantile civilization similar to Baseline Phoenicia. The Greek-Dorions gladly took the place of the region's main sea bandits.
  • Elamtu: good old Shushan and Anshan, their history has changed little. Shushan is currently at war with the Neo-Hittites and clearly shows the sights of guerrilla warfare.
  • Arab Peninsula: the region is significantly culturally divided. The northern and eastern tribes aimed to trade and cultural exchange with Mesopotamia, while the south was very much influenced by the Abbay River civilization (more on this below).
  • Yered Empire: the absence of the Nile Valley resulted in many waves of Afroasiatic migration moving east into the Iranian Plateau, where they provided significant competition to subsequent Indo-European migrants. Currently, Afro-Asians control the Empire, but they do this to the same extent as (apparently) the baseline Medes did it - very nominally. The further from the capital, the weaker the leash.
  • Ellopia: after contacting the civilized world, the Greeks-Dorions outranked all previous generations of Mediterranean pirates and built a domain of terror from Spain to Cyprus. The Kanaanites had to sponsor the most adequate warlord with gold and resources so he could unite the peninsula under his (pro-Kanaan) heel. So far, the Ellopia project has been very successful.
  • Empire of Ishkuza: the lack of Egyptian bread quickly attracted Kanaanite traders and colonists to the northern Black Sea coast. Soon the local nomads realized what a mountain of gold they were sitting on and began to consolidate into proto-states. Today's Ishkuza is a powerful and wealthy empire that threatens to destroy Kanaan's monopoly on the wheat transit trade and to enter the world-market itself.
  • Confederation of Eritria: as the golden age of Greek piracy came to an end, many bands found themselves with no homeland to return to. Some continued to raid the distant western lands without purpose, some began to settle under strong leaders in their pirate coves. Their bays turned into cities, later into unions of cities, until one day a naval military genius united most of them into a kind of loose empire. Today, their descendants, sitting in the capital city of Eritria (ironically next to the Baseline site of Carthage) became the successful traders and the worst Kanaan's enemies.
  • Garamantes: a mix of desert nomads and alien 'sea peoples', with a significant majority of the latter. The Garamantes monopolized trade routes throughout the Sahara all the way to Sinai, as well as the entire slave trade in the western and central Mediterranean.
  • League of Rasen: more or less the Baseline Etruscans, but here they arose as a reaction to the Greek sea threat. Judging by the reports of Professor Lugande, we are closer than ever to unraveling the Etruscans' ancestral homeland (or at least their language).
  • Contesta Confederation: the same story as in Italy, however, the Iberians hate the Greeks much more than you imagine. Their aggression and 'counter-piracy' are the reason why the Fertile Crescent inhabitants have not sailed beyond the Pillars of Melqart for a couple of centuries.
  • Abbay River civilization remnants: the Nile may have flowed east, but it still created conditions to attract people and to create a civilization, albeit not as significant as the Egyptian one (and without the pyramids). The Abbay civilization has experienced periods of ups and downs and is currently fighting for survival with newcomers from Arabia.
  • Musnad Empire: peninsular Semites have always consumed the benefits of trade with both the Fertile Crescent and the Abbay civilization. Having absorbed the power and knowledge of both worlds, Musnad has gone rogue and intends to subjugate its former teacher.
  • Oxus civilization: a lot of Indo-Aryans stopped here on their way to India, which contributed to the creation of an interesting mixture of locals and newcomers.
  • Magadma: after the fall of the Indus-Saraswati civilization, the Aryans failed to take a dominant position in northern India; they had to compete with the waves of Afro-Asian expansion. This created the most unique multiverse culture that our researchers have not yet gained access to.
Incident # 11-6-88
[DATA REDACTED]

[Gosh, Linda Brown added this text to the report at the last minute. Good thing I noticed. Nathaniel, information about the exposure and capture of Liuse Lee in Babylon must not reach the Council at any coast. The consequences will be much more dangerous for our mission than if Lee tells a bunch of priests about something they will never ever understand. Moreover, without Egyptian knowledge of anatomy and medicine, the torture process would not pose any particular inconvenience for our respected engineer. Commandor Pari's people are already scouring Babylon for his whereabouts; next week he will be here at HQ safe and sound.]

Sincerely,
Professor Maximilian Zenus

Credits:
The color scheme is inspired by maps from this TL
 

Aichi72

DUWANG said:
Does world go big boom?
Interesting Hashemite union. How does it look like in China and Japan?
Click to expand...
No, the crisis is defused in largely the same way as OTL. The Hashemite Arab Federation came about after the Arabian Revolution ended the Saudi dynasty. China is a KMT dictatorship but is slowly liberalising. Political theorists expect it to hold its first elections sometime in late 60s. Japan is worse off than OTL. It has not had the recovery of the post-war era and both Japans remain agrarian societies with little in the way of industry after the Allied-Occupation Authority dismantled all of it. After the Cold War end ITTL, Japan is likely to end up as a developing country. Interstingly enough, both sides continue to recognise the Emperor in Kyoto and declare themselves to be his legitimate government.
 
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