Map Thread XXII

[Libaton]

Beautiful, very inspiring piece of art. Makes me want to create something similar. Love the style and execution. Very well made!

Thank you very much!!

 

[Clandango]

View attachment 849065

I will upload a bigger version when I get home, but basically I had this idea for a big Niger+Nigeria state. The lore is that France somehow gets to Sokoto first, and that forms the backbone of "Big Niger/Nigeria"

I tried to francify the southern province names, but my French is atrocious so they might not make sense. There is also no Abuja in this timeline, the old capital of Sokoto is renovated instead.

When scrolling down the page, before seeing the entirety of the picture, I thought it was going to be a fantasy Texas or one where it’s birders where somewhere besides the Americas, and this reminds me that I really do need to read Malé Rising again.

Based on my first real victory in Hearts of Iron 4. I played the Soviets.View attachment 849155

thr British occupy or annex the Dutch islands in the Caribbean? Can’t quite make it out on my resolution.

A Glimpse into the NALverse: the 1989 Atlantic Hurricane Season and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.View attachment 848961
Carolini, from the incorporation of Moulin Rouge in 1685, to the Doyles-Etchison Act of 1998 which established military law in the Delta, has been a mixture of cultures from the beginning. Everyone seems to be welcome in the land of Festivals and Trade, from the Haitians to the Salesmen. Unfortunately for them, they got a really rough 30s years, from Hurricane Ian in '94, to Hurricane Charles in '98, and even Hurricane Marie-Anne in 2012, the once great cities of Lafayette, Moulin Rouge, and Cap-Carolini are a shell of their once self, with those 3 combined barely reaching 40,000 people in the year of 2023. There is hope, however, as there has been numerous public and private (although Ferriday has been suspiciously quieted on how much they've invested) donations and movements to take the example of Uniontown and Gotham and polderize the once great Delta of the Mississippi (although how much land is available to polder isn't really bringing hope) and repeal the Doyles-Etchison Act. Can there be hope for the hopeless, or will the land of Festivals finally go to rest for the last time? Only time will tell..

Surprised they didn’t call the natives Indians of some sort. I believe they still use that name in Latin America to this day. Though by the looks of it, there are not many of them here anyways. I love the thing about Salesmen. I am guessing they are seen like Jews, Greeks, Armenians, and Chinese in the various parts of the world where they were minorities but semi-successful or common as merchants? Or are they Carpetbaggers? I guess the timeline would explain all.

 

[KolyenuKS]

Surprised they didn’t call the natives Indians of some sort. I believe they still use that name in Latin America to this day. Though by the looks of it, there are not many of them here anyways. I love the thing about Salesmen. I am guessing they are seen like Jews, Greeks, Armenians, and Chinese in the various parts of the world where they were minorities but semi-successful or common as merchants? Or are they Carpetbaggers? I guess the timeline would explain all.

for natives: Indian never really catched on in ttl, at least in the NAL. Aboriginal/First Peoples is the most common term, especially as American has a negative connotation in the NAL (both the United States of the Americas, a nation they're.. not that friendly with to say the least, as well as it being basically taken over by the Wirtists (ttl's fascism) during their regime in the 1820s-early 30s.) there's still a sizable amount of natives in Carolini, although its much less than in a lot of states, due to various reasons (around 5% of the population have at least 1/4 native american blood, although the number of people registered in a tribe is probably around 15-20%, due to there being no blood requirement ittl)
for Salesmen: at the start, from the first settlers to practically the early 1900s, there weren't many Nord-Achaeans (essentially Achaeans from ttl's Germany, Sweden, Norway, Baltic States, and Britain) in the state, mainly due to other regions being more favorable for them, although that changed with the invention of Air Conditioning, which led to them being known as 'Salesmen', due to the, more than often, poor emigres taking on whatever job they could get, which were usually salesmen, or other retail professions.

 

[vgh...]

tbf most therapsids were probably pretty dim by modern mammal standards.

By "modern mammal" you don't mean marsupials or monotremes right? They are not very intelligent either generally, koalas for example have smooth brains, the males try to breed with females outside of breeding season and reproduce most of the time by rape during it, and whenever I see them in real life at night they lug themselves around the trees they call their home so clumsily it looks like a human one year old with supercharged grip strength hauling its fat body up a trunk. Possums screaming at each other and living in garage roller doors don't seem much smarter either. I guess this might be why most South American marsupials went extinct during the faunal interchange when the Isthmus of Panama appeared during the Pliocene. I could see Permian fossil animals being not too much different when alive.

 

[theflyingmongoose]

INDEPENDENT STATE OF PALESTINE
Government: Federal Presidential Constitutional Republic
Head of State: Federal President Mustafa Barghouti (2017-Incumbent)
Head of Government: Federal President Mustafa Barghouti (2017-Incumbent)
HDI: 0.783

REPUBLIC OF ISRAEL
Government: Unitary Parliamentary Republic
Head of State: President Isaac Herzog (2021-Incumbent)
Head of Government: Prime Minister Michal Shir (2023-Incumbent)
HDI: 0.973

HAREDIM FREE STATE
Government: Unitary Semi-Theocratic Presidential Republic
Head of State: First Chancellor Yitzhak Goldknopf (2020-Incumbent)
Head of Government: First Chancellor Yitzhak Goldknopf (2020-Incumbent)
HDI: 0.806

 

[Minchandre]

View attachment 849385
INDEPENDENT STATE OF PALESTINE
Government: Federal Presidential Constitutional Republic
Head of State: Federal President Mustafa Barghouti (2017-Incumbent)
Head of Government: Federal President Mustafa Barghouti (2017-Incumbent)
HDI: 0.783

REPUBLIC OF ISRAEL
Government: Unitary Parliamentary Republic
Head of State: President Isaac Herzog (2021-Incumbent)
Head of Government: Prime Minister Michal Shir (2023-Incumbent)
HDI: 0.973

HAREDIM FREE STATE
Government: Unitary Semi-Theocratic Presidential Republic
Head of State: First Chancellor Yitzhak Goldknopf (2020-Incumbent)
Head of Government: First Chancellor Yitzhak Goldknopf (2020-Incumbent)
HDI: 0.806

It should be Haredi, not Haredim.

The latter is the plural form, referring to the people but would not be appropriate for a state. Also, it seems unlikely that they would call themselves "free".

Also also Israel calls itself the State of Israel, and has never seriously consider "Republic".

EDIT: I also suspect that the Haredim would have a separate Head of State, likely a prominent rabbi. They might even have two, one Sephardi and one Ashkenazi.

 

[GodoftheTranses]

Nice, but "an array of forested peninsulas inhabited by unshaven barbarians?" "The inhabitants of this land were mostly illiterate and scattered in poorly connected hamlets all over the peninsula?" This might work for a description of Christian Europe outside Byzantine territory at the time of Charlemagne, but by the Renaissance/Early modern era Europe had largely caught up to East Asia in terms of development, and Elizabethan England and Ming China probably had literacy rates roughly in the same ballpark. Either the writer is massively racist about non-East-Asians, or something horrendous happened to Christian Europe. Is this some sort of "Years of Rice and Salt" scenario? Huns/Mongols/whatever wreck things? Zombie outbreak?

I feel like your questions would be answered if you reread the second page, as the byzantines apparently fell around 300 years after the western romans ITTL with China only making this discovery around 900 years after that

 

[DaniCBP]

The Visigotic conquest of Hispania​

An OTL map, of an often overlooked period, enjoy and ask freely about any doubt!

 

[Worffan101]

By "modern mammal" you don't mean marsupials or monotremes right? They are not very intelligent either generally, koalas for example have smooth brains, the males try to breed with females outside of breeding season and reproduce most of the time by rape during it, and whenever I see them in real life at night they lug themselves around the trees they call their home so clumsily it looks like a human one year old with supercharged grip strength hauling its fat body up a trunk. Possums screaming at each other and living in garage roller doors don't seem much smarter either. I guess this might be why most South American marsupials went extinct during the faunal interchange when the Isthmus of Panama appeared during the Pliocene. I could see Permian fossil animals being not too much different when alive.

Koalas are dim because of their diet--it's hard to maintain a large brain on food as energy-poor as eucalyptus leaves. In fact, their brains are so small IIRC they don't even fill their crania properly.

South American marsupials actually did fine--the borhyaenids were already extinct, and I think the sparassodonts were too (the last thylacosmilids went extinct when the only placental carnivorans in the region were panda-like raccoons). Meanwhile didelphids straight up colonized North America.

Permian therapsids probably would've been behaviorally similar to modern lizards or crocodiles, the brain structures would've been broadly similar. Complex cerebral cortex structures only developed in the Jurassic (mammals) and somewhere in the Jurassic or Cretaceous (birds).

 

[PecuTheGreat]

 

[Analytical Engine]

View attachment 849444

Is this from your ongoing map game, or something else?

 

[Fratsup]

Would be great if you could increase its size as I do think its a good map either way.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

Is this from your ongoing map game, or something else?

Yes.

God, I am taking forever to complete the summary.

 

[PecuTheGreat]

Would be great if you could increase its size as I do think its a good map either way.

Nah, can't do that. Used this smaller map to save space.

 

[CalBear]

PoD: Jan Smuts and the United Party wins the South African elections of 1948.

After winning a second term as prime minister, Jan Smuts and the United Party would avoid implementing apartheid. South Africa ITTL would also remain in the British Commonwealth, recognizing the British monarchy as the head of state. The United Party would implement the policies suggested by the Fagan Commission, which would loosen laws on the segregation of black Africans in the cities. South Africa would also open its borders up to European immigration, with hundreds of thousands of British and European settlers moving to South Africa in the 1950s. The South African communist party would still be banned in 1950. In 1950, Jan Smuts passes away, with the position of prime minister being passed to J. G. N. Strauss. In the election of 1953, the Afrikaner National Party attempted to unseat the ruling United Party, upset at their racial and immigration policies. However, the expansion of voting rights to coloreds and immigration from Europe would give the United Party a narrow majority over the National Party. In 1956, De Villers Graaf would replace J. G. N. Strauss as South African PM, himself being a native Afrikaner. South Africa would repeal the Asiatic Land Tenure Act in 1959, giving civil rights to the Indian minority in Natal. From the 1950s onwards, the United Party would continue its dominance in South African politics.

With the onset of decolonization in the 1960s, Afro-Marxist 'liberation' movements would threaten the stability of South Africa. Although South Africa ITTL would not be isolated from the Western powers and there would be no arms embargo, with the Western block selling South Africa weapons. During the Portuguese Colonial War in the 1960s, South Africa would directly intervene on the side of Portugal against Marxist insurgents. With the factor of South Africa on the side of Portugal, the Portuguese government would be successful in quelling the Marxist insurgents by the end of the 1960s. In 1965, South Rhodesia would unilaterally declare independence from the British Empire because of their position to British demands for majority rule. However, this would leave Rhodesia as an unrecognized state in the world, though Rhodesia would receive the backing of South Africa with the onset of a Marxist insurgency in Rhodesia. Due to South Africa's diplomatic relations with the West, South Africa would negotiate an agreement between Rhodesia and the United Kingdom in 1971, with the UK recognizing Rhodesian independence after a referendum was held. To contain communism in Africa, the Portuguese, Rhodesians, and South Africans would form a military pact.

In the 1970s, the United Party would enter into negotiations with the ANC over the implementation of civil rights. The South African government would abolish segregation and racial discrimination. A new constitution would be drafted that would enshrine equal civil rights for all of the races of South Africa. The South African government would also form a compromise power-sharing agreement with black Africans, although not outright full majority rule to black Africans as was desired by the ANC. South Africa would also change its immigration laws to permit immigration from India and East Asia, resulting in an influx of Indians, Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese flocking to South Africa. In 1979, after winning the Bush War against Marxist insurgents, Rhodesia would also form a similar compromise with its black population over majority rule, changing its name to Zimbabwe-Rhodesia. In the 1980s, South Africa continue intensive involvement on the African front of the Cold War, investing and propping up anti-communist regimes and cooperating with its Western partners. After the end of the Cold War in the 1990s, South Africa would play an interventionist role in Africa. From the 1990s-2000s, South Africa would intervene in Somalia in 1992, Rwanda in 1994, the Congo in 1996, and many other regional conflicts.

By the 21st century, South Africa is recognized as an influential power not only in Africa but also in the world. With no decades of failed Marxist black nationalist rule turning South Africa into a failed state like IOTL, South Africa would be an economic juggernaut in Africa, being the largest economy in the continent. Without the legacy of apartheid, the wealth gap between blacks and whites would be much less, and racial tensions would be much more better in South Africa ITTL. South Africa is also more racially diverse as a result of intensive immigration from Europe, India, and East Asia from the 1950s to the present. In Rhodesia-Zimbabwe, Mugabe's Marxist black nationalist regime never rises to power ITTL, with a sizeable minority of whites still living in the country, along with a growing Asian minority. Without Mugabe's disastrous regime, Rhodesia-Zimbabwe (aka. 'Rhobabwe') is a major producer of agriculture, still being known as the 'breadbasket of Africa'. Both South Africa and Rhodesia-Zimbabwe are first-world nations ITTL and are closely allied to the West, though hostile to China because of South Africa's continued recognition of Taiwan.

View attachment 848846

Please DO NOT get into current political commentary outside of Chat.

 

[Terran Allias]

Edit: nevermind I see it, I wouldn't say it's current but it is wocky for more personal reasons :v

 

[gourds]

h

PoD: Jan Smuts and the United Party wins the South African elections of 1948.

After winning a second term as prime minister, Jan Smuts and the United Party would avoid implementing apartheid. South Africa ITTL would also remain in the British Commonwealth, recognizing the British monarchy as the head of state. The United Party would implement the policies suggested by the Fagan Commission, which would loosen laws on the segregation of black Africans in the cities. South Africa would also open its borders up to European immigration, with hundreds of thousands of British and European settlers moving to South Africa in the 1950s. The South African communist party would still be banned in 1950. In 1950, Jan Smuts passes away, with the position of prime minister being passed to J. G. N. Strauss. In the election of 1953, the Afrikaner National Party attempted to unseat the ruling United Party, upset at their racial and immigration policies. However, the expansion of voting rights to coloreds and immigration from Europe would give the United Party a narrow majority over the National Party. In 1956, De Villers Graaf would replace J. G. N. Strauss as South African PM, himself being a native Afrikaner. South Africa would repeal the Asiatic Land Tenure Act in 1959, giving civil rights to the Indian minority in Natal. From the 1950s onwards, the United Party would continue its dominance in South African politics.

With the onset of decolonization in the 1960s, Afro-Marxist 'liberation' movements would threaten the stability of South Africa. Although South Africa ITTL would not be isolated from the Western powers and there would be no arms embargo, with the Western block selling South Africa weapons. During the Portuguese Colonial War in the 1960s, South Africa would directly intervene on the side of Portugal against Marxist insurgents. With the factor of South Africa on the side of Portugal, the Portuguese government would be successful in quelling the Marxist insurgents by the end of the 1960s. In 1965, South Rhodesia would unilaterally declare independence from the British Empire because of their position to British demands for majority rule. However, this would leave Rhodesia as an unrecognized state in the world, though Rhodesia would receive the backing of South Africa with the onset of a Marxist insurgency in Rhodesia. Due to South Africa's diplomatic relations with the West, South Africa would negotiate an agreement between Rhodesia and the United Kingdom in 1971, with the UK recognizing Rhodesian independence after a referendum was held. To contain communism in Africa, the Portuguese, Rhodesians, and South Africans would form a military pact.

In the 1970s, the United Party would enter into negotiations with the ANC over the implementation of civil rights. The South African government would abolish segregation and racial discrimination. A new constitution would be drafted that would enshrine equal civil rights for all of the races of South Africa. The South African government would also form a compromise power-sharing agreement with black Africans, although not outright full majority rule to black Africans as was desired by the ANC. South Africa would also change its immigration laws to permit immigration from India and East Asia, resulting in an influx of Indians, Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese flocking to South Africa. In 1979, after winning the Bush War against Marxist insurgents, Rhodesia would also form a similar compromise with its black population over majority rule, changing its name to Zimbabwe-Rhodesia. In the 1980s, South Africa continue intensive involvement on the African front of the Cold War, investing and propping up anti-communist regimes and cooperating with its Western partners. After the end of the Cold War in the 1990s, South Africa would play an interventionist role in Africa. From the 1990s-2000s, South Africa would intervene in Somalia in 1992, Rwanda in 1994, the Congo in 1996, and many other regional conflicts.

By the 21st century, South Africa is recognized as an influential power not only in Africa but also in the world. With no decades of failed Marxist black nationalist rule turning South Africa into a failed state like IOTL, South Africa would be an economic juggernaut in Africa, being the largest economy in the continent. Without the legacy of apartheid, the wealth gap between blacks and whites would be much less, and racial tensions would be much more better in South Africa ITTL. South Africa is also more racially diverse as a result of intensive immigration from Europe, India, and East Asia from the 1950s to the present. In Rhodesia-Zimbabwe, Mugabe's Marxist black nationalist regime never rises to power ITTL, with a sizeable minority of whites still living in the country, along with a growing Asian minority. Without Mugabe's disastrous regime, Rhodesia-Zimbabwe (aka. 'Rhobabwe') is a major producer of agriculture, still being known as the 'breadbasket of Africa'. Both South Africa and Rhodesia-Zimbabwe are first-world nations ITTL and are closely allied to the West, though hostile to China because of South Africa's continued recognition of Taiwan.

View attachment 848846

how is this shit allowed on here lmao

 

[Leonidas]

During the Portuguese Colonial War in the 1960s, South Africa would directly intervene on the side of Portugal against Marxist insurgents. With the factor of South Africa on the side of Portugal, the Portuguese government would be successful in quelling the Marxist insurgents by the end of the 1960s.

They did this IOTL and failed badly. Also kind of a glaring issue when Namibia isn’t mentioned at all in this scenario and remains part of South Africa, despite how important their own war for independence was in this particular conflict.

Due to South Africa's diplomatic relations with the West, South Africa would negotiate an agreement between Rhodesia and the United Kingdom in 1971, with the UK recognizing Rhodesian independence after a referendum was held.

Not holding a referendum before illegally declaring independence was never the issue.

In 1979, after winning the Bush War against Marxist insurgents, Rhodesia would also form a similar compromise with its black population over majority rule, changing its name to Zimbabwe-Rhodesia.

Considering the circumstances of Zimbabwe-Rhodesia IOTL, it’s extremely hard to believe the promise of equality would be any less illusory this time around.

With no decades of failed Marxist black nationalist rule turning South Africa into a failed state like IOTL, South Africa would be an economic juggernaut in Africa, being the largest economy in the continent.

Might wanna tone down the political commentary or people will get the wrong idea.

 

[CalBear]

h

how is this shit allowed on here lmao

I see you've been here for about six weeks, but since this is your first post ever...

Congratulations! You have chosen one of our exclusive travel packages!

The Eight Ways to Crash Land package includes 2nd class accommodations to Coventry, one way.

Bye.

 

[Kaiser of France]

I see you've been here for about six weeks, but since this is your first post ever...

Congratulations! You have chosen one of our exclusive travel packages!

The Eight Ways to Crash Land package includes 2nd class accommodations to Coventry, one way.

Bye.

And good riddance.