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Saaay, are you from the Fatherland by chance? And if so, from the lands of high technology, the car with the star and those that dislike Bavaria?
Map Thread VIII
- Thread starter Burton K Wheeler
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Saaay, are you from the Fatherland by chance? And if so, from the lands of high technology, the car with the star and those that dislike Bavaria?
Just want to share with you guys my work in progress map, which incidentelly is inspired by a game of EU3 (doesn't say much about the plausibility of this scenario).
Essentially it is a Cleves/Jülich-wank, a Swiss-screw and a more European Russia. The POD is around the year 1400 and the current year is 1750-ish.
Just as a final note: English Siberia is a pretty recent deal (1700-ish).
Essentially it is a Cleves/Jülich-wank, a Swiss-screw and a more European Russia. The POD is around the year 1400 and the current year is 1750-ish.
Just as a final note: English Siberia is a pretty recent deal (1700-ish).
Damnit, another WiP-wank!
English Siberia? How would they colonize it?
Get *Vladivostok and try the Hudson Bay Company approach (as in before the conquest of Canada)
I really like this. For one, it'd be cool to see Mongol mastodon cavalry.
Sapiento for Map King!
Okay here’s the world map for my Map Challenge 47 entry, two centuries and a bit on from the original map, after the Age of Discovery has closed.
Aremorica (North America) (Technically New Aremorica, but no one calls it that)
As a general note the European discovery of the *Americas occurred earlier and over a much more relaxed timescale as Breton sailors slowly explored the coast. Thus the diseases came in a more stop gap fashion and multiple introductions have resulted in a considerably lower American population overall. However the slower rate of disease losses and the fact that their peak had passed well before the Europeans showed up in force meant rather than sprawling empires in chaos, the Europeans encountered numerous small, stable and centralised states, many which were able to resist European incursions up to the time of the map (Those nations are in Mexican Pink rather than the standard tan minor state color).
In Aremorica many of the Northern European nations have set up settlements on the coast for fishing and timber, hampered by the lack of Amerindian settlements to assist them. In only the southern reaches have the Vlaans and Hollanders coming out of the Caribbean set up plantation economies to produce tobacco, and they are struggling with the greater price of slaves. To the north the Scottish hunt for furs (their equal influence in Russia has made the Fur Company of Glasgow and Yaroslav (FAGY) possibly the wealthiest non-state entity in the world). To try and compete the Edinburgh Company established the New Islen colony in the St Lawerence valley to give them the food and military base to displace the Aremoricans round the Grand Lakes. Swelled with hardy crofters, Icelanders and Sverlanders (New Islen has its own colour due to being joint charter by the Sverlanders and the Scots and its quite independent mentality) it has the coverted ‘Second most likely to go Draka’ award. In the south the English also do some fur trapping in the Cahoot River basin (Mississippi) but their main intention is vast ranches raising the white gold of wool for use in Enlgish textiles (the Islamic Renaissance and Slave prices make other fibers unprofitable).
The United Kingdom (Of Leon, Portugal, Galicia and Castle) dominated Mesoaremorica on their drive to the Pacific, but all the other Maritime nations have tried to grab scraps of land for sugar plantations. Several powerful Mayan city states have endured and the Scottish have set up a holding on the swamps of the isthmus.
Australia (South America)
In the continent to the south, the UK followed the smell of silver from the villages on the coast to its roots in the mines of Potosi a decades long process over the tiny kingdoms of the Altiplano, but with the lure of Asian riches didn’t push that much further. With the dearth of Indian labour they’ve had to import many East Asians and Africans to work the mines. Hoping to similarly cash in other states worked on other approach vectors to the silver but failed. The Aragonese colony around the Rio de la Canela has proven a success though with well organised plantations of Cinchona and False Cinnamon providing vast profits to the merchants of Seville, the Xin native kingdom proving both a help and hindrance. The Aragonese also bring large numbers of African workers for these plantations and their sugar ones away from the river mouth, but are rather more relaxed on matters of miscegenation and heritage than the UK and many freed slaves have become wealthy and influential in San Luis. Other nations crowd sugar plantations and trading bases round the Horn of Australia, including the singular Arab outpost across the Atlantic. Further south English Australia holds sway, the failed attempt to reach inland on the River Argyre having given way to farming, sheep ranching and wineries for Europes markets. The northern sections are less prosperous, the less productive sugar plantations driven out by the high cost of slaves, and the interior mining industries forced to run on convict labour though coffee provides some value. At the very tip of Australia the Scottish settlements about the Cape of Storms trade and raise sheep in dour stoicism.
Africa
In Africa, the Europeans have swarmed the coast but not penetrated far inland. In the west the many kingdoms are courted by hundreds of European fortified trading posts, and the Arabs are present in force both on the seas and coming over the Sahara. The buying power of the Arabs and Iberians for slaves has driven large scale plantations out of the price range of many and enriched many African kingdoms (to the detriment of others), and the Canelan quinine products have reduced mortality in the richer states.
Further south the Vlaanish colony of Laksmannie has driven far inland across the central plateau and Miombo woodlands between the jungles and the deserts seeking the increasingly lucrative slave trade. Militaristic settlers fortified by cinchona (indeed some of the highlands in the deep interior near the Congo river seem suitable for African cultivation) have set up mining operations based on their abundant supplies of human misery and German mercenaries.
A couple of port towns dot the cape, and the Aragonese retain their early won and hard maintained hegemony over the east Africa coast, content to send missionaries to the interior states and accept their subservient visits to Zaragoza without interfering inland, though the press of the Laksmannians across the continent is starting to be felt.
Neutexel (Australia) and Pacifica (Oceania)
In the antipode of the world, Friesian explorers looking for a shortcut across the Indian ocean stumbled on the continent of Neutexel about the same time Scottish whalers and traders were crossing the south pacific in different directions. A few naval battles later they decided to share with the Bergen line dividing the continent (the UK, lords of the Pacific, also decided to swoop in and gain a slice of two much weaker nations pie), however further exploration revealed the Friesians had gained by far the greater portion, and the discovery of gold has made many envious of the luck of the Fryish, and start to sharpen their knives.
South Asia
In India the Benares Sultanate is the heart of the Islamic Renaissance, its textile products and ideas in demand the world over despite military losses to Central Asian interlopers in the west, and its trade creating vast wealth for all involved in its trading networks. South of this bastion however lies chaos, and many a man of skill, Hindu or Muslim alike, has fled the Deccan to the Bihar cities. The collapsing Bisnaga empire has left a fractured landscape of tiny hindu and muslim states beset by the hired armies of colonial powers from every corner of the world after the spice wealth of the Deccan.
This fractured state is mimicked in Indochina after the collapse of the Ming and Ayuttahaya, though no powers are particularly interested in this region poor in exportable goods. Islamic missionaries from Bengal have been making an impression however in the war torn region.
In Indonesia the two Iberians prove themselves the predominant colonial powers with their dominance of this lucrative region, constantly battling for supremacy, though the Scottish and other lesser colonial powers do have presences. The Iberians arrived earlier than the Europeans in the OTL and native strains of Catholicism have won out everywhere east of Sumatra and pockets of Malaya.
East Asia
With a mounting fiscal crisis (caused by the delay in the introduction of Peruvian silver) the Ming fell to the Second Yuan in the middle 1500s, who would in turn fall to the Turkified Xi Dynasty (the descendants of the Chagatai horde) less than half a century later. In both cases the invasions would allow southern provinces to break from imperial rule, first the Viet and later the Southern Ming. This fractured state offered ample opportunity for the UK to insert itself into the commercial networks and reap a rich crop of trade, whilst the smashing of the Manchu by two western invasions offered opportunity for an increasingly independent Korea to expand and modernise with European and Indian ideas. For now the Xi seem strong and stable, if beset on all sides by powerful opponents.
The Japanese had the unfortunate position of being engaged in civil war whilst the UK built up strength in the pacific rim, and a few to many pirates and slaughter of traders caused them to take decisive action and even seize the southern islands whilst installing a puppet emperor. The Honshu kingdom has gained some measure of independence but still has to bend over whenever someone wants to establish a treaty port – even Korea having gotten in on the action. The power vacuums in Manchuria and Ezo provided space for Russian adventurers.
West Asia
In west asia the twin titans of Persia and the Arab Caliphate batten off the trade flows between east and west. The former can be said to have its feet in two worlds in many senses. Vast cities coexist with nomadic hinterlands, and it is as entangled with the European diplomatic system as it is with the semi-tribal states of Africa and West India. Being Aragon’s eternal enemy caused a strong realpolitik bond with Plantagenet England and an off and on relationship with the UK as well meddling in the Aegean Sea and the minor turko-greek states of Anatolia. An increasingly liberal attitude to use of the Nile Canal and the trading relationship with North India has allowed its heartland to retain commercial strength even with the rise of the Atlantic economy, and an often piratical presence on that ocean has disrupted the gains of others.
Persia on the other hand remains a more traditional middle eastern empire, but a series of strong military leaders and the power vacuum in central Asia caused by the Xi focus east has allowed it to expand, and the general activity on the Arabian gulf has been helpful. Antagonisms with Cairo have made the Aragonese frequent visitors to the Persian court. However the hanging threat of the Armies of Xi China crossing the Oxus still weighs heavily on Persia and the situation on their eastern borders is certainly not stable.
Europe
The middle of the 1700s has finally seen an end to the Unification Wars (aka the Forty Years War, the Third Tartaric War, and the War of Berries) a monoglot of conflict in Central Europe west of the Elbe that have seen the last old feudal structures be washed away in favour of new centralised monarchies based on national identities, recreating the Kingdoms of France and Lombardy, and finalising the evolution of the two German States (Helvetica and Dutchland for the English speakers) into strident identities looking to make places for themselves in the world. The small and large Atlantic states have only dipped into these conflicts and instead grow wealthy on global trade and nascent industrialisation.
In the east the religious cement that binds the Poles to the Elbean mix (the North Germanic/Sorbian/Saxon mix that spilled north of the Carpathians and along the Baltic coast in the post-Mongol centuries) has frayed particularly as the latter increase in wealth off pre-industrial townships. Orthodox Lithuania has managed to hold together through the thick of constant battles with the Tartars and a separate Slavic language has risen under its watch. Yaroslav grew slowly into Russia, but a much less strident version than the OTL, as the military powerful orthodox Lithuania and the cultural power of the Rhomai meant Caesaropapism and universalism never formed to such an extent, and its slower unification saw more of the ideas of Novgorod in its developing zeitgeist, not to mention the costs of lands under Lithuania’s control. Nevertheless it expanded east with some alacrity and now has a commercial presence on the pacific and butts heads with China.
In Southern Europe the Tartary has waxed and waned (mostly waxed), taking some European ideas within its own meritocratic authoritarianism as the Hungarian plains Turkified and Slavicisied. Pushes north and south have met with both success and resistance, and it lost its control over the Venetian church just as Christianity firmly took hold with the empire. Its greatest perceived failure was the attempts to keep the semi-nomadic eastern Tartars a going concern in the face of aggression on all sides, though many moved to the lower Danube (as did many Jews pressed during the religious wars in central Europe). The dream of taking Constantinople has been thwarted by Lithuanian, Russian, Aragonese, and on one occasion even Arabic intervention.
Okay here’s the world map for my Map Challenge 47 entry, two centuries and a bit on from the original map, after the Age of Discovery has closed.
Aremorica (North America) (Technically New Aremorica, but no one calls it that)
As a general note the European discovery of the *Americas occurred earlier and over a much more relaxed timescale as Breton sailors slowly explored the coast. Thus the diseases came in a more stop gap fashion and multiple introductions have resulted in a considerably lower American population overall. However the slower rate of disease losses and the fact that their peak had passed well before the Europeans showed up in force meant rather than sprawling empires in chaos, the Europeans encountered numerous small, stable and centralised states, many which were able to resist European incursions up to the time of the map (Those nations are in Mexican Pink rather than the standard tan minor state color).
In Aremorica many of the Northern European nations have set up settlements on the coast for fishing and timber, hampered by the lack of Amerindian settlements to assist them. In only the southern reaches have the Vlaans and Hollanders coming out of the Caribbean set up plantation economies to produce tobacco, and they are struggling with the greater price of slaves. To the north the Scottish hunt for furs (their equal influence in Russia has made the Fur Company of Glasgow and Yaroslav (FAGY) possibly the wealthiest non-state entity in the world). To try and compete the Edinburgh Company established the New Islen colony in the St Lawerence valley to give them the food and military base to displace the Aremoricans round the Grand Lakes. Swelled with hardy crofters, Icelanders and Sverlanders (New Islen has its own colour due to being joint charter by the Sverlanders and the Scots and its quite independent mentality) it has the coverted ‘Second most likely to go Draka’ award. In the south the English also do some fur trapping in the Cahoot River basin (Mississippi) but their main intention is vast ranches raising the white gold of wool for use in Enlgish textiles (the Islamic Renaissance and Slave prices make other fibers unprofitable).
The United Kingdom (Of Leon, Portugal, Galicia and Castle) dominated Mesoaremorica on their drive to the Pacific, but all the other Maritime nations have tried to grab scraps of land for sugar plantations. Several powerful Mayan city states have endured and the Scottish have set up a holding on the swamps of the isthmus.
Australia (South America)
In the continent to the south, the UK followed the smell of silver from the villages on the coast to its roots in the mines of Potosi a decades long process over the tiny kingdoms of the Altiplano, but with the lure of Asian riches didn’t push that much further. With the dearth of Indian labour they’ve had to import many East Asians and Africans to work the mines. Hoping to similarly cash in other states worked on other approach vectors to the silver but failed. The Aragonese colony around the Rio de la Canela has proven a success though with well organised plantations of Cinchona and False Cinnamon providing vast profits to the merchants of Seville, the Xin native kingdom proving both a help and hindrance. The Aragonese also bring large numbers of African workers for these plantations and their sugar ones away from the river mouth, but are rather more relaxed on matters of miscegenation and heritage than the UK and many freed slaves have become wealthy and influential in San Luis. Other nations crowd sugar plantations and trading bases round the Horn of Australia, including the singular Arab outpost across the Atlantic. Further south English Australia holds sway, the failed attempt to reach inland on the River Argyre having given way to farming, sheep ranching and wineries for Europes markets. The northern sections are less prosperous, the less productive sugar plantations driven out by the high cost of slaves, and the interior mining industries forced to run on convict labour though coffee provides some value. At the very tip of Australia the Scottish settlements about the Cape of Storms trade and raise sheep in dour stoicism.
Africa
In Africa, the Europeans have swarmed the coast but not penetrated far inland. In the west the many kingdoms are courted by hundreds of European fortified trading posts, and the Arabs are present in force both on the seas and coming over the Sahara. The buying power of the Arabs and Iberians for slaves has driven large scale plantations out of the price range of many and enriched many African kingdoms (to the detriment of others), and the Canelan quinine products have reduced mortality in the richer states.
Further south the Vlaanish colony of Laksmannie has driven far inland across the central plateau and Miombo woodlands between the jungles and the deserts seeking the increasingly lucrative slave trade. Militaristic settlers fortified by cinchona (indeed some of the highlands in the deep interior near the Congo river seem suitable for African cultivation) have set up mining operations based on their abundant supplies of human misery and German mercenaries.
A couple of port towns dot the cape, and the Aragonese retain their early won and hard maintained hegemony over the east Africa coast, content to send missionaries to the interior states and accept their subservient visits to Zaragoza without interfering inland, though the press of the Laksmannians across the continent is starting to be felt.
Neutexel (Australia) and Pacifica (Oceania)
In the antipode of the world, Friesian explorers looking for a shortcut across the Indian ocean stumbled on the continent of Neutexel about the same time Scottish whalers and traders were crossing the south pacific in different directions. A few naval battles later they decided to share with the Bergen line dividing the continent (the UK, lords of the Pacific, also decided to swoop in and gain a slice of two much weaker nations pie), however further exploration revealed the Friesians had gained by far the greater portion, and the discovery of gold has made many envious of the luck of the Fryish, and start to sharpen their knives.
South Asia
In India the Benares Sultanate is the heart of the Islamic Renaissance, its textile products and ideas in demand the world over despite military losses to Central Asian interlopers in the west, and its trade creating vast wealth for all involved in its trading networks. South of this bastion however lies chaos, and many a man of skill, Hindu or Muslim alike, has fled the Deccan to the Bihar cities. The collapsing Bisnaga empire has left a fractured landscape of tiny hindu and muslim states beset by the hired armies of colonial powers from every corner of the world after the spice wealth of the Deccan.
This fractured state is mimicked in Indochina after the collapse of the Ming and Ayuttahaya, though no powers are particularly interested in this region poor in exportable goods. Islamic missionaries from Bengal have been making an impression however in the war torn region.
In Indonesia the two Iberians prove themselves the predominant colonial powers with their dominance of this lucrative region, constantly battling for supremacy, though the Scottish and other lesser colonial powers do have presences. The Iberians arrived earlier than the Europeans in the OTL and native strains of Catholicism have won out everywhere east of Sumatra and pockets of Malaya.
East Asia
With a mounting fiscal crisis (caused by the delay in the introduction of Peruvian silver) the Ming fell to the Second Yuan in the middle 1500s, who would in turn fall to the Turkified Xi Dynasty (the descendants of the Chagatai horde) less than half a century later. In both cases the invasions would allow southern provinces to break from imperial rule, first the Viet and later the Southern Ming. This fractured state offered ample opportunity for the UK to insert itself into the commercial networks and reap a rich crop of trade, whilst the smashing of the Manchu by two western invasions offered opportunity for an increasingly independent Korea to expand and modernise with European and Indian ideas. For now the Xi seem strong and stable, if beset on all sides by powerful opponents.
The Japanese had the unfortunate position of being engaged in civil war whilst the UK built up strength in the pacific rim, and a few to many pirates and slaughter of traders caused them to take decisive action and even seize the southern islands whilst installing a puppet emperor. The Honshu kingdom has gained some measure of independence but still has to bend over whenever someone wants to establish a treaty port – even Korea having gotten in on the action. The power vacuums in Manchuria and Ezo provided space for Russian adventurers.
West Asia
In west asia the twin titans of Persia and the Arab Caliphate batten off the trade flows between east and west. The former can be said to have its feet in two worlds in many senses. Vast cities coexist with nomadic hinterlands, and it is as entangled with the European diplomatic system as it is with the semi-tribal states of Africa and West India. Being Aragon’s eternal enemy caused a strong realpolitik bond with Plantagenet England and an off and on relationship with the UK as well meddling in the Aegean Sea and the minor turko-greek states of Anatolia. An increasingly liberal attitude to use of the Nile Canal and the trading relationship with North India has allowed its heartland to retain commercial strength even with the rise of the Atlantic economy, and an often piratical presence on that ocean has disrupted the gains of others.
Persia on the other hand remains a more traditional middle eastern empire, but a series of strong military leaders and the power vacuum in central Asia caused by the Xi focus east has allowed it to expand, and the general activity on the Arabian gulf has been helpful. Antagonisms with Cairo have made the Aragonese frequent visitors to the Persian court. However the hanging threat of the Armies of Xi China crossing the Oxus still weighs heavily on Persia and the situation on their eastern borders is certainly not stable.
Europe
The middle of the 1700s has finally seen an end to the Unification Wars (aka the Forty Years War, the Third Tartaric War, and the War of Berries) a monoglot of conflict in Central Europe west of the Elbe that have seen the last old feudal structures be washed away in favour of new centralised monarchies based on national identities, recreating the Kingdoms of France and Lombardy, and finalising the evolution of the two German States (Helvetica and Dutchland for the English speakers) into strident identities looking to make places for themselves in the world. The small and large Atlantic states have only dipped into these conflicts and instead grow wealthy on global trade and nascent industrialisation.
In the east the religious cement that binds the Poles to the Elbean mix (the North Germanic/Sorbian/Saxon mix that spilled north of the Carpathians and along the Baltic coast in the post-Mongol centuries) has frayed particularly as the latter increase in wealth off pre-industrial townships. Orthodox Lithuania has managed to hold together through the thick of constant battles with the Tartars and a separate Slavic language has risen under its watch. Yaroslav grew slowly into Russia, but a much less strident version than the OTL, as the military powerful orthodox Lithuania and the cultural power of the Rhomai meant Caesaropapism and universalism never formed to such an extent, and its slower unification saw more of the ideas of Novgorod in its developing zeitgeist, not to mention the costs of lands under Lithuania’s control. Nevertheless it expanded east with some alacrity and now has a commercial presence on the pacific and butts heads with China.
In Southern Europe the Tartary has waxed and waned (mostly waxed), taking some European ideas within its own meritocratic authoritarianism as the Hungarian plains Turkified and Slavicisied. Pushes north and south have met with both success and resistance, and it lost its control over the Venetian church just as Christianity firmly took hold with the empire. Its greatest perceived failure was the attempts to keep the semi-nomadic eastern Tartars a going concern in the face of aggression on all sides, though many moved to the lower Danube (as did many Jews pressed during the religious wars in central Europe). The dream of taking Constantinople has been thwarted by Lithuanian, Russian, Aragonese, and on one occasion even Arabic intervention.
..... WHAT.
To get Vladivostok, you need to get Outer Manchuria.
To Get Outer Manchuria, you need to invade China.
And how would they be connected to Great Britain?
And the Kazan, Astrakhan, and Crimea Khanates are gone, which would be a golden gateway eastward for Siberia.
And I shall yell at you for your ideas on the Ottoman Empire.
wolf_brother
Banned
I'm going to assume that the dark gray is unpopulated/underpopulated/disorganized areas instead of some monstrously sprawling German empire in Africa, Australia, the Americas
I'm going to assume that the dark gray is unpopulated/underpopulated/disorganized areas instead of some monstrously sprawling German empire in Africa, Australia, the Americas
UCS is for turds
A topographic map of a fantasy world I've had in mind for quite awhile, known as Deina. I was going to do bathymetry as well but could not be bothered with it.
Also in this future: the Israeli-Palestine Fraternal Federation, and the Most Christian Republic of Iran.
Teshuvah
Banned
Also in this future: the Israeli-Palestine Fraternal Federation, and the Most Christian Republic of Iran.
We all need to let out our inner ASB now and then.
Also in this future: the Israeli-Palestine Fraternal Federation, and the Most Christian Republic of Iran.
You frogot the National-Socialist Empire of Greater China.
Y'know, both are possible, with an early enough PoD, or far enough in the future. Not very probable[/i], though.Also in this future: the Israeli-Palestine Fraternal Federation, and the Most Christian Republic of Iran.
Revolutionary Todyo
Banned
Also in this future: the Israeli-Palestine Fraternal Federation, and the Most Christian Republic of Iran.
Stranger things have happened
Such ASB...
For the FSAR the capital is Philadelphia right?
And for the FRA, Washington DC is kinda close to the border. Somewhere in the Deep South?
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