Making the Fairey Battle viable

At mid to lower level I'd give the original Whirlwind even or better odds against the Ro.57

The Mosquito could then take over, post-1942 introduction of the fighter variant.

The DB powered aircraft was actually the Ro.58.
As for the Mosquitoes, I'd try to have them to maybe 75% produced as bombers, 15% as NF, and 10% as VLR recon machines. OTL - most produced were the FB variants, so here is the niche for the Merlin Whirly, apart from the potential to serve as a LR fighter and recon.
 
so here is the niche for the Merlin Whirly, apart from the potential to serve as a LR fighter and recon.
Recon maybe with fuel in nose, barrels removed, drop tanks, etc. But LR fighter? No way, the more powerful Merlins would consume too much fuel to further reduce the Whirlwind's terrible range.
 
The fuel situation depends on how much of the airframe is changed when adopted to the Merlins. For example, it can receive the L-shaped fuselage fuel tank, behind and under pilot, like it was done on the Bf 109. The drop tanks are the ovious thing. But for a real LR fighter, the radiators must go from the area between the spars, so thus gained volume can be used for fuel tankage.
 
The fuel situation depends on how much of the airframe is changed when adopted to the Merlins. For example, it can receive the L-shaped fuselage fuel tank, behind and under pilot, like it was done on the Bf 109. The drop tanks are the ovious thing. But for a real LR fighter, the radiators must go from the area between the spars, so thus gained volume can be used for fuel tankage.
With all those changes we might as well go with the Welkin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westland_Welkin
 
Welkin has too long wings for a general-purpose fighter, meaning low rate of roll and too much drag under 25000 ft or thereabout; above that altitude it entered commpressibility (thinner air at 30000 ft means Mach 0.60 equals 400 mph). The wing really does need to be bigger than Falke's. It also has the 2-stage Merlins, that were in short supply before 1943.
What I want is perhaps 300 sq ft wing, Merlin 45, 4 cannons, 200-250 imp gals of fuel plus drop tanks. Fowler flaps, slats, excellent canopy as per OTL Whirly. Hopefully 400 mph without too much problems, early 1942 without ASB intervention.
 
00Whirly2.png


Something like this?
 
There it is. P-38's wings and nose (with radiators in front of the main spar of the inner wing section, fuel tank aft the main spar), Mossie's powerplant & nacelles.
The 440 mph figure is a bit on the optimistic side with the Merlin 23 or any of the 20 or 30 series, esp with non-adventurous wing of 330 sq ft. Those were as good as Merlin 45 above 12000 ft - talk ~1200 HP at 18000 ft (without ram effect accounted for). Merlin 23 gave 1390 HP at 12500 ft and under.

BTW - too bad the Americans didn't do the classic twin, singleseater, themselves.
 
I always liked the outline of the F5F and its possible successors. If only the USN had accepted it into battle. I am sure it would have given the Zero's a run for their money.
 
To answer the OP's question - IMHO - I don't think you can. Better, to realise that the weight limiting factor of the design, produced a short term design and therefore shorten the production run.
IMO - too the Air Ministry should not just used a 'carrot' but should not have been afraid of using the 'stick' - so if Fairey said they didn't want to make Seafires, then tell them, 'in that case we won't ask again, we'll tell you, you won't have much else to build'!.

Issue a replacement spec. for the Battle and the Blenheim.
 
The Fairey Battle was designed to be a long range (from France) medium level day bomber to bomb the Ruhr from 15,000 feet not a specific bridge at 50 feet. The design limits were to maximise performance under the expected terms of an arms limitation treaty that never happened and would have banned the Whitley/Hampden/Wellington. It was not intended to operate at ground level. However, 1940 showed that no daylight bomber was safe without fighter escort and a better Fairey Battle would be one with a fighter escort. It's successors were the medium bombers all of which needed fighter escort except the Mosquito, and questionably the Beaufighter.

Crudely put, the Battle has the size of a Beaufighter at half the weight so the twin engined idea may have legs with 4x20mm or 2x40mm cannon, an external war load and fuel instead of bomb cells. An equally crude comparison is with the De Havilland Hornet. The Battle is just a touch larger and unladen 3,000kg against the Hornet 5,000kg. Of course this makes no allowance for many things like the stressing for a fighter as against a bomber and wing thickness and so much more.
 
I do like the idea of the Battle with a more powerful engine and up gunned, but reading through other post on here it seems that the Battle was let done by Fighter Command, I wonder if those daylight attacks over France in 1940 had had sufficient fighter escorts than its reputation wouldn't be as blighted as it is now, after all the Stuka's suffered just as badly when they were without fighter escorts over Britain.
 
Escorted raids were not a prescribed doctrine by RAF. Bomber command aircraft were to bomb what need to be bombed, Fighter command aircraft were to defend alotted territory. Plus, neither Hurricane nor Spitfire were with range/radius that would've allowed them to escort BC bombers to the foreseen targets.
 
IMO - too the Air Ministry should not just used a 'carrot' but should not have been afraid of using the 'stick' - so if Fairey said they didn't want to make Seafires, then tell them, 'in that case we won't ask again, we'll tell you, you won't have much else to build'!.

Doesn't appear to have been Fairey saying he wouldn't make them, more the AM wanting Whirlwinds.

McKinstry, Leo. Spitfire (Kindle Locations 2736-2742). Hodder & Stoughton. Kindle Edition.

At first it had been conceived that Sir Richard Fairey would be asked to manufacture 300 Spitfires at his Stockport factory, but this had been superseded – despite the reservations of Sir Wilfrid Freeman – by the order placed in May 1938 for 1,000 Spitfires from the Nuffield factory in Birmingham. An argument now started as to which fighter Sir Richard’s firm should build. In July 1938, at one of the Secretary of State’s progress meetings, the Deputy Chief of the Air Staff, Air Vice-Marshal R. E. C. Pierse, graphically revealed the extent of official disillusion with the Spitfire, all but declaring it to be outdated before it had even gone into service. Pierse said that what the RAF needed was a cannon fighter, and the Westland machine was the answer. ‘He would like to press very strongly that Fairey’s should build the Westland fighter.’ Sir Ernest Lemon agreed, adding that ‘it would be a mistake to give Fairey’s an order for an obsolescent type of fighter when they had the design staff to produce a better type.’ The clear implication, as the Secretary of State for Air, Sir Kingsley Wood, pointed out, was that ‘the Air Staff would regard the Spitfire as obsolescent by the time it could be put into production by Fairey’s.’ Sir Wilfrid Freeman, however, warned that the Spitfire, for all its problems, was now in production, whereas the Westland fighter had yet to be properly tested. At the end of the meeting it was agreed that, if the Westland model proved successful, then Fairey’s should manufacture this type. If not, then Fairey’s would be asked to produce an additional quantity of Spitfires.

The successful initial trials of the Westland, powered by two Rolls-Royce Peregrine engines – a development of the Kestrel – further diminished the standing of the Spitfire. At a ministerial progress meeting in November 1938 Sir Cyril Newall, having again expressed regret at the lack of any cannon-gun fighters in the RAF, told Wood that ‘he would like to place orders at once for the Westland fighter.’ The first of this type, he said, ‘had already flown and was expected to have a speed in the neighbourhood of 400 mph, which was a considerable advance on the Hurricane and Spitfire’. Freeman felt that, despite a satisfactory first flight of the Westland, it was too soon for such a step. But Newall’s scorn for the Spitfire could not be held back. At a progress meeting in December, he urged that the Nuffield factory, once it was operating, should be instructed to make the Westland fighter rather than the Spitfire. When other officials said that, even on the most optimistic timetable, the Westland could not be in production before 1940, he condemned such thinking as too conservative, arguing that there was no reason to delay until every drawing had been completed and every type of raw material ordered. Furthermore, he believed that the prime duty of the Supermarine factory was to assist in this process at the Nuffield plant, not continue to build the unwanted Spitfire. ‘He thought that Supermarine’s should concentrate on the manufacture of such parts for the Westland fighter and go on to the manufacture of other parts as the drawings and materials became available. By doing this it might be possible to reduce the size of the additional Spitfire order and to bring the Westland fighter into production at an earlier date.’
 
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