Major UN intervention to end the civil war in Lebanon
- Thread starter Monk78
- Start date
Every outside force that entered Lebanon as a peacekeeper eventually ended up bombarding the country with the maximum ordinance at its disposal. Syria, who originally ostensibly entered as a peacekeeper used 240mm mortars to shell Beirut. The US shelled the Shouf mountains with 16" naval guns. I don't know what would get the umpteen sides to stop fighting other than collectively running out of energy.
David Flin
Gone Fishin'
After my time there (I was in Beirut in the first part of 1976).
From what I saw of the place, the idea of any sort of imposed peace or greater involvement of UN forces is, well, not the highest probability. Back in my time (and not the time specified here, please note), the UN was involved. Kind of.
UN forces got kidnapped and held for ransom, or butchered, as the mood took the various militia. Israeli jets bombed the place randomly every day, like clockwork. Literally. You could set your watch by them. 2.13 PM. They were, according to source, bombing terrorist positions/bombing cuddly puppies and hospitals. As far as I could see, time was more important than target, and the bombs just fell more or less at random.
It would be hard work finding out how to make peace with. Leadership of the various militia changed with bewildering frequency. The life expectancy of a militia leader was shorter than that of a Spinal Tap drummer. Alliances between the militia groups changed with bewildering frequency.
You've got the age issue. 7-year-olds were involved, planting bombs, knifing enemy wounded, filching from bodies, and so on.
You've got assorted national factions pursuing their own interests - Syria, the Soviet Union, and others. Sometimes these interests involved ensuring that the situation did not get resolved - they gained national advantage by having Lebanon in turmoil.
It's hard to overstate just how fucked up the place was, and how limited the will was in the outside world to do anything about it.
Good luck getting the UN involved in a major operation here.
From what I saw of the place, the idea of any sort of imposed peace or greater involvement of UN forces is, well, not the highest probability. Back in my time (and not the time specified here, please note), the UN was involved. Kind of.
UN forces got kidnapped and held for ransom, or butchered, as the mood took the various militia. Israeli jets bombed the place randomly every day, like clockwork. Literally. You could set your watch by them. 2.13 PM. They were, according to source, bombing terrorist positions/bombing cuddly puppies and hospitals. As far as I could see, time was more important than target, and the bombs just fell more or less at random.
It would be hard work finding out how to make peace with. Leadership of the various militia changed with bewildering frequency. The life expectancy of a militia leader was shorter than that of a Spinal Tap drummer. Alliances between the militia groups changed with bewildering frequency.
You've got the age issue. 7-year-olds were involved, planting bombs, knifing enemy wounded, filching from bodies, and so on.
You've got assorted national factions pursuing their own interests - Syria, the Soviet Union, and others. Sometimes these interests involved ensuring that the situation did not get resolved - they gained national advantage by having Lebanon in turmoil.
It's hard to overstate just how fucked up the place was, and how limited the will was in the outside world to do anything about it.
Good luck getting the UN involved in a major operation here.
GeographyDude
Gone Fishin'
We might have to roll it back a year or so to 1974 or ‘75, but I understand Lebanon was the pearl of the Middle East.
For example, if you wanted to know some fine point about a law in Saudi Arabia, don’t contact a lawyer in Saudi. Find a highly knowledgeable lawyer in Lebanon, most probably in Beruit!
David Flin
Gone Fishin'
Not really. Prior to the Civil War, Lebanon was a viable country with its own culture. Prior to the start of the civil war, it was, as mentioned above, described as the pearl of the Middle East.
To my knowledge, there were at least three separate Syrian Ba'athist forces operating in Lebanon. One was drawn from people within Lebanon itself, and whose main aim was to link parts of NE Lebanon to Syria, and for them, all others in Lebanon represented a target. One was drawn from people within Syria, whose main aim was - as far as I could tell - to bring damage to Beirut. And one was drawn from those in Iraq, whose main aim was to eliminate the Syrian Ba'athist forces.
By 1976, you could have waved whatever flag you liked over Lebanon, and said it belonged to this country or that country; it would have been meaningless, as the power was split between around 100 different militias and organisations with shifting alliances and capabilities. Some, such as the Phalangists, with support from various countries, acquired tanks and artillery - artillery being, of course, well known for its utility in peacekeeping in urban environments.
Some groups were more inclined to traditional forms of urban terrorism - double tap car bombs being a speciality. And all the while, every day at 2.13, Israeli jets would bomb random parts of Beirut.
Then you get the complications of the PLO, the Shia militias, the Sunni militias, the Kurdistan groups, Armenian groups, Greek Orthodox forces - the list goes on. All squabbling over a patch of land about 20 square kilometres in size. That's just Beirut (and I can't speak of anything outside Beirut as I wasn't there).
Of course, that predates the Civil War. I understand Beirut was a lovely place then. Wished I had seen it then. By 1976, one was (true story) greeted by reception at the Commodore Hotel (the only hotel operating in what might loosely be called "safety" - the Battle of the Hotels had eliminated all the others) by the sight of the Reception desk being surrounded by sandbags, and with one of the receptionists manning a machine gun trained on the door. One asked for a room, and the enquiry was if one preferred a room on: "the sniper side or the car bomb side."
Good luck getting anything sane out of the place come the start of the Civil War.
A couple of pictures, spoilered for taste, courtesy of the International Committee of the Red Cross.
Just the standard street scene. Yes, I'm afraid people did wear flares.
I looked up the wiki page for the "Battle of the Hotels". How the hell can you have a civil war let alone a battle with that many factions. How can anyone remember which faction their fighting which week?
It seems like the militia members would spend most of their time arguing which group their supposed to shoot or not shoot that day of the week.
It becomes a disaster that makes Afghanistan look like a roaring success for democracy.
Unfortunately Lebanon, where the government was more or less designed to be a balance of power (with the four main religious groups each permanently hold on of the major "power positions) that was always at risk if any of the players went sideways, which eventually happen in the most spectacular way possible. It's really tragic given the fact that before this broke down it was arguably the most democratic state in the entire Arab world, and one of the most democratic with a mixed Sunni/Shi'a population anywhere in the world.
Any intervention was 100% certain to piss one group or another off, often all four of them, albeit for different reasons.
Result = Permanent low level war against the Peacekeepers who will be be seen as a simply a different faction.
Easy. Somebody looks crooked at you, or takes the last piece of pie you try to kill them and everyone they ever met.
Its like a gang turf war mixed with 500 year old blood fueds. Basically a good old fashioned range war/Feudal dispute with heavy weapons.
Bloody nightmare. In what was once one of the really beautiful places on Earth.
Beyond tragic.
Lebanon remains beautiful, with all the deep scars (and the more recent ones). The Civil War was one of the most horrific, stupid, and, arguably, avoidable tragedies in the area.
100% agree. Textbook case of just leave what works alone.
You need a UN force willing to fight Syria and Israel.
The Commanders of the UNIFIL instead of forcing a unconditional and instant withdraw of Israeli troops in 1978 as demanded even by the US forged a deal with Israel for a buffer zone instead and the Israelis to control the Lebanese's strip near Israel.
Not only that they arrived in march 1978 but Israel only withdrew after June 13 spending months giving the SLA weapons and equipment.
Not only that but Lebanon became increasingly needed by Hafez after the Soviet arms embargo for his projects needed to keep Syria as healthy as possible after killings of those Palestinians made the USSR pissed plus when the Islamic revolution crossed over Syria's borders and the already present insurgency got oil thrown over it.
I can't see the maronites maintain their power and them being happy about it.
Likewise everyone who want's the chaos to continue can just arrange a massacre or killing by a proxy to ruin the UN's work, like what happened after Syria nearly made peace or at least stopped the active warfare.
The Commanders of the UNIFIL instead of forcing a unconditional and instant withdraw of Israeli troops in 1978 as demanded even by the US forged a deal with Israel for a buffer zone instead and the Israelis to control the Lebanese's strip near Israel.
Not only that they arrived in march 1978 but Israel only withdrew after June 13 spending months giving the SLA weapons and equipment.
Not only that but Lebanon became increasingly needed by Hafez after the Soviet arms embargo for his projects needed to keep Syria as healthy as possible after killings of those Palestinians made the USSR pissed plus when the Islamic revolution crossed over Syria's borders and the already present insurgency got oil thrown over it.
I can't see the maronites maintain their power and them being happy about it.
Likewise everyone who want's the chaos to continue can just arrange a massacre or killing by a proxy to ruin the UN's work, like what happened after Syria nearly made peace or at least stopped the active warfare.
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Makes it worse when they don’t wear uniforms either
And who armed these various factions ? I mean someone must be importing these weapons
I have read and looked at some documentaries on the Lebanese Civil War. I can only describe the factional alliances as a round robin. Israel did not fight their proxies the Southern Lebanese Army, but almost everyone else was allies and enemies of almost everyone else at least once.
Re, the arms trade: The country was pretty awash with weapons to start. I think there was a pretty permeable boundary between the actual Lebanese army and some of the factions. And then units of the army defected or went out on their own at some point. The PLO was in-country at the time and had their own supply chain, involving Libya and others. Israel armed their proxies. Syria armed theirs. Many of the factions had outside supporters, from all around the region, so the Gulf states, Iran after the revolution, etc, etc. The black market was huge, and control of the port facilities was a big prize, because that meant control of imports, so the ports were fought over often. Plus arms would be captured in every battle.