The Carolina Question is not getting resolved until the Combine marches in, is it?
Look to the West Volume VII: The Eye Against the Prism
- Thread starter Thande
- Start date
The Carolina Question is not getting resolved until the Combine marches in, is it?
The ENA doesn't have to deal with integrating Carolina if it doesn't control Carolina. [/touching forehead meme]
To be fair, seems most of the post-Pandoric presidents have been "America's worst" due to one thing tarnishing their legacy, not being generally bad. So the ENA must be having quite a few good presidents, if those are considered the "bad ones".
Still wondering what the Societist constituency in Carolina is. Blacks confused by mixed messaging from the ENA on their future status? Pacifist whites sick of military occupation? Maybe its something more like the Scientific Attack, the Societists fulfilling nationalist goals (sticking it to the Yanks) while disavowing the nation?
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Ah, but Carolina is confirmed Societist by the 1940s, so it can't be the very Last Throw. If the three waves of expansion are Black Twenties, [30s-40s conflict], and the Sunrise War then Carolina needs to be taken in one of the first two. Probably even the Black Twenties, by the 30s you'll have a whole generation or two of Carolinians who've never known anything but ENA rule, and if their impressions are good (or at least on a positive trajectory) then that's a hit to Societist appeal.
I’d say 1990 with the implied last attempt by the Societists leading to the Combine getting Threshed to oblivion
Alternatively the Combine has some sort of internal tension or contested leadership and the ASN just uses the opportunity to thresh them when they're distracted. THE ENDS ALWAYS JUSTIFY THE MEANS.
I think the chapter in question implies to me at least that much like otl a stalemate leads to one side growing weaker until a tipping point occurs
ITTL it took the form of war instead of dissolution followed by reform
Regarding Last Throw, I think "final strike, after which there will be no hostilities" is indispensable to the concept of Societist war, but the definition of the term will likely shift over time and especially after the nuclear bomb. I mean, if A and B are hostile and A destroys B's capital, then that will be the "last" attack since B can no longer wage war (or so the Combine will assume, until Russia shrugs off the loss of Moscow). So after carytic physics reaches a certain level of sophistication "Last Throws" just become a lot more practical.
There's also the fact that in a Last Throw conflict the Societists are theoretically always a third party. The whole principle is that nationalism inevitably creates conflict, so wait for intra-nationalist conflict to weaken them all and then mop up. But as the ASN and Diversitarianism point the way toward a world order that's diverse and peaceful, at that point the Societists go from intervening in ongoing conflicts to sparking new ones themselves. The final leg of that evolution might well be preemptive strikes, as hardliners present a hostile, tenuous peace as being war/aggression by other means ("Peace is war. War is wrong. Peace is wrong.") that must be ended by a final strike, after which there will be no hostilities. So that may be what "Last Throw" comes to signify: ending a conflict by any means even if the Societists started it.
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Besides that, it just hit me how weird it is that "frontiersman" is still a valid political category in early 1900s America. That's what Panimaha is, a collection of every "open range" from Hudson Bay to the Mojave. And even if that territory shifts in identity there'll still be Westernesse and Cygnia. There's still lands in America that don't fit into normal archetypes of city, county, and state, and there's politicians and parties that identify with their interests and pledge to address their unique concerns. And the identity isn't on its way out yet, people are still aspiring to stake claims on this or that even if the enthusiasm isn't enough for Tayloe's plans.
There's also the fact that in a Last Throw conflict the Societists are theoretically always a third party. The whole principle is that nationalism inevitably creates conflict, so wait for intra-nationalist conflict to weaken them all and then mop up. But as the ASN and Diversitarianism point the way toward a world order that's diverse and peaceful, at that point the Societists go from intervening in ongoing conflicts to sparking new ones themselves. The final leg of that evolution might well be preemptive strikes, as hardliners present a hostile, tenuous peace as being war/aggression by other means ("Peace is war. War is wrong. Peace is wrong.") that must be ended by a final strike, after which there will be no hostilities. So that may be what "Last Throw" comes to signify: ending a conflict by any means even if the Societists started it.
***
Besides that, it just hit me how weird it is that "frontiersman" is still a valid political category in early 1900s America. That's what Panimaha is, a collection of every "open range" from Hudson Bay to the Mojave. And even if that territory shifts in identity there'll still be Westernesse and Cygnia. There's still lands in America that don't fit into normal archetypes of city, county, and state, and there's politicians and parties that identify with their interests and pledge to address their unique concerns. And the identity isn't on its way out yet, people are still aspiring to stake claims on this or that even if the enthusiasm isn't enough for Tayloe's plans.
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I **think** Occidentalia is merely a city either at *Independence or *Kansas City, if I remember right.
xsampa
Banned
Also, what to do about demobilized Mujhadeen who have now acquired *nationalist ideas to prevent a Great Jihad in the Nusantara
In the name of national diversity, all free peoples must resist and support those who resist the Combine!
There's no way this could possibly go wrong.