Look to the West Volume VII: The Eye Against the Prism

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Thande, Sep 2, 2019.

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  1. Thande I could not fail to disagree with you less Donor

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    Well done for keeping this thread on the front page a week after I last posted, lads, always makes me happy to see active discussion!

    (edit: predictably, this has made it go to a new page :p - so see bottom of the previous one for Part #259 which I've just posted)
     
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  2. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    Much interestingness.

    So, Russia is a republic by the present day, by the sound of it. Unless the "Empty Throne" is a reference to a powerless Tsar, rather than an absentee one?

    I assume Novgorod is the Russian capital, because Moscow was nuked. Or is it the capital of the Russian Confederation, whilst Moscow is the capital of the Russian Nation?
     
  3. Tannenberg (Angry Argentinian Noises)

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    There is a mention to a "tragedy of 1990" that insinuates a big nuclear war, probably the "Last War of Supremacy" We can speculate that Moscow and Zone1Urby1 got nuked in the same war
     
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  4. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    However, the post mentions that the Russian Confederation was formed as a result of the Sunrise War, which happened during the mid-20th century. Therefore, I believe that Moscow had been nuked at that point. Or, at the very least, something caused the Russian government to have to leave the city, and subsequently not return to it.

    Of course, it might have been nuked again during the Last War of Supremacy.
     
  5. Tannenberg (Angry Argentinian Noises)

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    However, is implied that the Russians got the bomb first. So, the Combine probably had nukes on the next war. In a world that was horrified by a conventional chemical attack from WW1, is very likely that the bomb wasn't a war-winner for the Russians
     
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  6. Umbric Man Umbric Manned

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    all this talk of nukes and it's plausible in-universe

    No wonder Nuttall considers Timeline L, well, insane....
     
  7. Michael Canaris What does this field do?

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    It could also imply a long-standing regency such as Franco's Spain or Horthy's Hungary defined themselves IOTL.
     
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  8. Tannenberg (Angry Argentinian Noises)

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    You can get more insane if you really think about it. Since the story insinuates that the Combine eventually retreats from a lot of territories, what the hell the ASN did with the old Combine territories? Since they basically are indistinguishable from other Combine territories, they literally have to rebuild those countries from zero. Not as much as the institutions, but literally the entire culture of those countries has to be created from scratch in order to achieve a Diversitarian nation. If ENA has already problems in what to do with Mexico, imagine winning a territory that is basically an extention of the enemy nation. What do you even do with something like that? How you can rebuild how the old nation was with all this constant historic revisionism on the way? Knowing the Diversitarians, they probably sent a lot inmigrants from different parts of the world in order to create something that is reminiscent of diversity (it was mentioned that this was the case of England) or they simply made up a resemblence of that culture based in dispersed pieces of history. Or both, probably
     
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  9. John Spangler A man of wealth and taste

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    Societism may have started with good intentions, but it is slowly becoming just like the old system it claims to fight, if not worse. Another proof that new doesn't always means good or better.
     
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  10. Michael Canaris What does this field do?

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    You can never be too sure what with all these white-rose sporting bandits loitering around!
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
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  11. 1SaBy Enlightened Radical Alt-Censtrist

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    Didn't Sanchez forsake democracy earlier already? After the Popular Wars.

    Do we know that the "Soviet regime" was the Russian Confederation?
     
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  12. Indicus Stuff

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    "Interrex"? So, is Germany a nominal monarchy with a "regency" in power for a near-century? Or, has "Interrex" been kept under a republican constitution for Germany for whatever reason? I have thought that if Canada were to ever become a republic its head of state would still be a Governor-General as "President" is too closely connected to the US - might something like that be involved? Or did republican Germany begin as a "regency" which became permanent over time?
     
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  13. Betelgeuse Well-Known Member

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    I was under the impression that Interrex is the ASN equivalent of the UN Secretary General - perhaps based on a rotating system between heads of state or ambassadors?
     
  14. Born in the USSA Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense, of course a Diversitarian organization would make a point of including the country of origin for its leader in the official title.
     
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  15. Bulldoggus Socially Guelph, Fiscally Ghibelline

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    Also a healthy reminder that Diversitarianism isn't a totally settled-on set of beliefs.
     
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  16. Analytical Engine Monarchist Collectivist Federalist

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    "Otherwise, we'd be just as bad as the Societists!"
     
  17. Born in the USSA Well-Known Member

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    Also once again screw Russia for its treatment of Yapon
     
  18. Codae Well-Known Member

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    I'd say no. It looks to me like the Soviets governed Russia on behalf of the Empty Throne from the Sunrise War to around 1980, when a new government (presumably the Confederation) took over and established much friendlier relations with the rest of the Diverse World.
     
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  19. LostInNewDelhi Anarcho-Shaivist

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    The Pandoric Revolution, the Black Twenties, the Second Black Scare (1940s?)?

    The bar-brawl of the late-50s Sunrise War seems to end with Russia badly concussed but the Combine leaking some blood onto the carpet as well; one evidently recovered much faster than the other. It's quite possible this war is seen as a dangerous near-miss (something the Soviets probably encourage to legitimize their authority) until the Combine's 60s-80s weakness becomes more apparent.

    Also, "Empty Throne" is a delicious metonym for a political regime. Please tell me they literally build a giant throne in Novgorod's main square. Although come to think of it Novgorod is an odd location for a replacement capital, if we're going with the theory that Moscow was nuked. Even Kazan is arguably closer to the Russian heartland. Although if the Soviets TTL are drawing from the racialist-leftism that inspired the Meridian Colorados and the French Noirs (fairly likely, given their skepticism of "national friendship") then the Tatar city of Kazan would be vastly inferior to Novgorod, the city of Alexander Nevsky's pride. But I'd like to think we're not reprising Jacobinism again, and going for something fresher.

    Ertegun is a very Turkish-sounding name-- does the Eternal State or its successor rejoin the world community faster than the Combine successors?

    A Zonal Rej? Just one is all it takes? Does the Combine's end come about by decentralization, as each Rej becomes an absolutist Rex... but because you need to preserve the illusion of unity the bad decisions of one get blamed on all? Might be possible that this is how the weird events hinted at in Japan come about-- the Combine wins it in the Sunrise War but in the ensuing malaise can barely govern it; the suddenly-very-autonomous Rej pursues some... strange ideas.

    Maybe the Combine ends in a civil war, egged on by the Diversitarians? Did we ever hear of any Diversitarian cities destroyed in the Last War of Supremacy (I believe they were the ones launching the nukes, possibly to seize the chance offered by the internal chaos of the hated enemy)?

    But no, if the Combine's ending is considered such a perfect reversal of the Pacifist impulse... maybe it was a pre-emptive strike by August-Coup-style hardliners on the world that rejected them. A repeat of Monterroso's mistake. Those poor bastards.

    I guess the question of "how did they build Diversitarian nations out of the Combine?" is answered by... they didn't? I suppose South America can keep its diverse populations as a token of apology for the whole "shattered cities en' wailin' bairns" business. The sense of commonality based on common residence regardless of exact origin will gel into something "national" soon enough, even without active steps taken to resurrect the culture and politics of the UPSA at its prime. After all, the Combine era is now an epoch of Platinea's national experience, and 'tis a great crime to murder a nation :^))))))
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  20. Generalissimo Maximus Timelines are just excuses to make flags

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    That would be an ironically fitting demise, wouldn't it? Or to repurpose a quote from an obscure corner of the internet and removing it's original humor: "Defeated by division? in the Combine? Oh what irony."
     
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