List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II

[Nova_Philomena]

Definitely Hans!

Here's one: William Adelin, Heir of Henry I, doesn't die in the white ship disaster.

Have it saved in my TL Doc

William III of England (b. 1103 d. 1166) m. Matilda of Anjou (b. 1111 d. 1162)

1. William IV of England (b. 1128) m. Eleanor of Aquitaine (b. 1124)
2. Matilda of England (b. 1131) m. ??
3. Constance of England (b. 1132) m. Frederick I, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1122)
4. Richard, Duke of Normandy (b. 1133) m. ??

 

[Dragonboy]

Have it saved in my TL Doc

William III of England (b. 1103 d. 1166) m. Matilda of Anjou (b. 1111 d. 1162)

1. William IV of England (b. 1128) m. Eleanor of Aquitaine (b. 1124)
2. Matilda of England (b. 1131) m. ??
3. Constance of England (b. 1132) m. Frederick I, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1122)
4. Richard, Duke of Normandy (b. 1133) m. ??

Awesome! Here's one: Both Edward the Black Prince and his eldest son Edward both survive the illnesses that killed them before their time

 

[Nova_Philomena]

Awesome! Here's one: Both Edward the Black Prince and his eldest son Edward both survive the illnesses that killed them before their time

Does Black Prince survive to be King and Edward of Angouleme become Prince of Wales?

 

[Dragonboy]

Does Black Prince survive to be King and Edward of Angouleme become Prince of Wales?

Yep and Angouleme becomes edward V

 

[Nova_Philomena]

Yep and Angouleme becomes edward V

on it

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Henry VIII, King of England (1491-1547) m. Catherine Carey (1524-1569)

She's not ever suspected to be his daughter ITTL I suppose?

 

[EdwardRex]

She's not ever suspected to be his daughter ITTL I suppose?

No, Henry’s never attached to Mary Boleyn here.

 

[Stahlo]

Edmund Tudor is the only surviving son of Henry VII

Henry VII of England (b. 1457 d.1509) m. Elizabeth of York (b. 1466 d. 1503) with issue
1. Arthur, Prince of Wales (b. 1486 d.1502) m. Catherine of Aragon (b. 1485) [1]
2. Princess Margaret (b. 1489) m. James IV of Scotland (b. 1473)
3. Henry, Duke of York (b. 1491 d. 1495)
4. Princess Elizabeth (b. 1492) m. Charles IX of France (b.1492) [2]
5. Princess Mary (b. 1496) m. Christian of Denmark (b. 1481)
6. King Edmund I of England (b. 1499) m. Eleanor of Austria (b. 1498)

[1] Given the insurmountable age gap between her and Edmund, Catherine was sent back to Spain and married elsewhere, most likely to the Duke of Savoy. She had a happy life with several living children.
[2] I swapped which Tudor sibling died young. And the Charles Elizabeth married is a surviving Charles Orlando

 

[Dragonboy]

Edmund Tudor is the only surviving son of Henry VII

Henry VII of England (b. 1457 d.1509) m. Elizabeth of York (b. 1466 d. 1503) with issue
1. Arthur, Prince of Wales (b. 1486 d.1502) m. Catherine of Aragon (b. 1485) [1]
2. Princess Margaret (b. 1489) m. James IV of Scotland (b. 1473)
3. Henry, Duke of York (b. 1491 d. 1495)
4. Princess Elizabeth (b. 1492) m. Charles IX of France (b.1492) [2]
5. Princess Mary (b. 1496) m. Christian of Denmark (b. 1481)
6. King Edmund I of England (b. 1499) m. Eleanor of Austria (b. 1498)

[1] Given the insurmountable age gap between her and Edmund, Catherine was sent back to Spain and married elsewhere, most likely to the Duke of Savoy. She had a happy life with several living children.
[2] I swapped which Tudor sibling died young. And the Charles Elizabeth married is a surviving Charles Orlando

Who became Edmund's regent?

 

[Stahlo]

Who became Edmund's regent?

Probably one of Henry VII's councilors after Margaret Beaufort died.

 

[AkhenatenOrRamses]

WIP: Henry VIII “The Unfortunate” has ten wives and only daughters.

Henry VIII, King of England (1491-1547) m. Catalina, Infanta of Spain (1485-1518) m. Elizabeth Blount (1498-1519) m. Isabella, Infanta of Portugal (1503-1528) m. Eleanor, Archduchess of Austria (1498-1532) m. Anne Boleyn (1507-1536) m. Jane Seymour (1508-1537) m. Anne of Cleves (1515-1558) -annulled- m. Catherine Howard (1523-1542) m. Catherine Parr (1512-1545) m. Catherine Carey (1524-1569)
1a. Elizabeth, Queen of England (1510-)
2a. Mary, Princess of England (1511-)
3a. Margaret, Princess of England (1513-)
4a. Catherine, Princess of England (1514-1514)
5a. Catherine, Princess of England (1516-)
6a. Stillborn Son (1518)
7b. Stillborn Son (1519)
8c. Blanche, Princess of England (1524-)
9c. Philippa, Princess of England (1526-)
10c. Stillborn Son (1528)
11c. Stillborn Son (1528)
12d. Eleanor, Princess of England (1530-)
13d. Miscarriage (1532)
14e. Anne, Princess of England (1533-)
15e. Cecily, Princess of England (1534-)
16e. Stillborn Son (1536)
17f. Stillborn Son (1537)
18h. Bridget, Princess of England (1541-)
19h. Miscarriage (1542)
20i. Henrietta, Princess of England (1545-1551)
21j. Joan, Princess of England (1547-)

What are some possible matches for the girls?

Oh man, that version of Henry is even worse than in OTL... The first few will probably be married to English nobles to keep foreign princes from gaining a claim on England.

 

[Andrewtsal]

Right. I do not know why I wrote Alencon instead of Angouleme (but in the earlier post I wrote the right title)

I hoped that, but still the fact who Claude is Duchess mean who Anne has no male descendants still alive

Claude does end up having a son who rules for some time, but unfortunately theres a repeat of the Mad War in which he died in battle. Young Claude is taken as a hostage and married to the Dauphin but happily she lives a long life with several children.

 

[Andrewtsal]

And now we have the the updated family tree for the House of Trastamara. I‘d appreciate any ideas for titles for the second son of the King of Spain

• Isabella I, Queen of Castile and Leon (b. 1451, d. 1510) m. Ferdinand II, King of Aragon (b. 1452, d. 1516)
  • Isabella of Aragon, Infanta of Spain (b. 1470, d. 1500) m. Manuel I, King of Portugal (b. 1469, d. 1521)
    • Isabella of Portugal, Princess of Portugal (b. 1497, d. 1571) m. Ferdinand VI, King of Spain (b. 1496, d. 1560)
      • Ferdinand VII, King of Spain (b. 1522, d. 1580) m. Anne of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1525, d. 1578)
      • Juan of Spain, Viceroy of Naples (b. 1524, d. 1591) m. Eleanor of Toledo (b. 1522, d. 1582)
      • Isabella of Spain, Infanta of Spain (b. 1525, d. 1571) m. Duarte II, King of Portugal (b. 1527, d. 1565)
  • Juan, Prince of Asturias (b. 1478, d. 1500) m. Joanna of Naples (b. 1478, d. 1530)
    • Ferdinand VI, King of Spain (b. 1498, d. 1560) m. Isabella of Portugal, Infanta of Portugal (b. 1497, d. 1571)
      • Ferdinand VII, King of Spain (b. 1522, d. 1580) m. Anne of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1525, d. 1578)
      • Juan, Viceory of Naples (b. 1524, d. 1591) m. Eleanor of Toledo (b. 1522, d. 1582)
      • Isabella of Spain, Infanta of Spain (b. 1525, d. 1571) m. Duarte II, King of Portugal (b. 1527, d. 1565)
  • Joanna of Aragon, Infanta of Spain (b. 1479, d. 1552) m. Philip I, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1478, d. 1524)
    • Eleanor of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1498, d. 1548) m. Henry VIII, King of England (b. 1491, d. 1553)
    • Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1500, d. 1561) m. Anne of France, Princess of France (b. 1501, d. 1567)
    • Isabella of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1501, d. 1535) m. Christian II, King of Denmark (b. 1481, d. 1559)
    • Ferdinand, Archduke of Austria (b. 1503, d. 1566) m. Anne of Hungary, Princess of Hungary (b. 1503, d. 1557)
    • Mary of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1505, d. 1558) m. Louis II, King of Hungary (b. 1505, d. 1531)
    • Catherine of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1507, d. 1577) m. Joao III, King of Portugal (b. 1504, d. 1561)
  • Maria of Aragon, Infanta of Spain (b. 1482, d. 1514) m. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1480, d. 1530)
    • Philip III, Duke of Savoy (b. 1505, d. 1547) m. Beatriz of Portugal, Infanta of Portugal (b. 1504, d. 1558)
  • Catherine of Aragon, Infanta of Spain (b. 1485, d. 1502)) m. Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b. 1486, d, 1502)

 

[Dragonboy]

And now we have the the updated family tree for the House of Trastamara. I‘d appreciate any ideas for titles for the second son of the King of Spain

• Isabella I, Queen of Castile and Leon (b. 1451, d. 1510) m. Ferdinand II, King of Aragon (b. 1452, d. 1516)
  • Isabella of Aragon, Infanta of Spain (b. 1470, d. 1500) m. Manuel I, King of Portugal (b. 1469, d. 1521)
    • Isabella of Portugal, Princess of Portugal (b. 1497, d. 1571) m. Ferdinand VI, King of Spain (b. 1496, d. 1560)
      • Ferdinand VII, King of Spain (b. 1522, d. 1580) m. Anne of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1525, d. 1578)
      • Juan of Spain, Viceroy of Naples (b. 1524, d. 1591) m. Eleanor of Toledo (b. 1522, d. 1582)
      • Isabella of Spain, Infanta of Spain (b. 1525, d. 1571) m. Duarte II, King of Portugal (b. 1527, d. 1565)
  • Juan, Prince of Asturias (b. 1478, d. 1500) m. Joanna of Naples (b. 1478, d. 1530)
    • Ferdinand VI, King of Spain (b. 1498, d. 1560) m. Isabella of Portugal, Princess of Portugal (b. 1497, d. 1571)
      • Ferdinand VII, King of Spain (b. 1522, d. 1580) m. Anne of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1525, d. 1578)
      • Juan, Viceory of Naples (b. 1524, d. 1591) m. Eleanor of Toledo (b. 1522, d. 1582)
      • Isabella of Spain, Infanta of Spain (b. 1525, d. 1571) m. Duarte II, King of Portugal (b. 1527, d. 1565)
  • Joanna of Aragon, Infanta of Spain (b. 1479, d. 1552) m. Philip I, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1478, d. 1524)
    • Eleanor of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1498, d. 1548) m. Henry VIII, King of England (b. 1491, d. 1553)
    • Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1500, d. 1561) m. Anne of France, Princess of France (b. 1501, d. 1567)
    • Isabella of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1501, d. 1535) m. Christian II, King of Denmark (b. 1481, d. 1559)
    • Ferdinand, Archduke of Austria (b. 1503, d. 1566) m. Mary of Hungary, Princess of Hungary (b. 1503, d. 1557)
    • Mary of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1505, d. 1558) m. Louis II, King of Hungary (b. 1505, d. 1531)
    • Catherine of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1507, d. 1577) m. Joao III, King of Portugal (b. 1504, d. 1561)
  • Maria of Aragon, Infanta of Spain (b. 1482, d. 1514) m. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1480, d. 1530)
    • Philip III, Duke of Savoy (b. 1505, d. 1547) m. Isabella of Portugal, Infanta of Portugal (b. 1504, d. 1558)
  • Catherine of Aragon, Infanta of Spain (b. 1485, d. 1502)) m. Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b. 1486, d, 1502)

Looks amazing! Viceroy of naples is an appropiate title.

Who was the second wife of Manuel?

Mary and louis had a son?

 

[isabella]

Prompt: James V born female.

Margaret I of Scotland (b. 1512 d. 1545) [1] m. Charles of France, Duke of Berry (b. 1510 d. 1557) [2]

1. James V of Scotland (b. 1530 d. 1571) m. Marie of France (b. 1531 d. 1578) [3]
2. Princess Margaret of Scotland (b. 1531 d. 1581) [4]
3. Charles Stewart, Duke of Rothesay [5] (b. 1532 d. 1563) m. Lady Anne Hamilton (b. 1535 d. 1574)
4. Stillborn Son (b. 1535 d. 1535)

[1] All of her mother's pregnancies (Except for her's) still die, paving away Margaret being Scotland's first undisputed Queen Regnant (We all know the Maid doesn't count), and she isn't actually named for Margaret Tudor, but instead Margaret of Denmark.
[2] Genderbent Renee of France, Claude is also Genderbent (named Louis) and marries Eleanor of Austria. I am debating whether it should just be the Scottish House of Valois or Valois-Stewart.
[3] Daughter of Louis XIII of France and Eleanor of Austria.
[4] Initially betrothed to Manuel, Prince of Portugal, son of John III of Portugal and Catherine of Austria, however, Manuel dies and Margaret instead enters a convent.
[5] Initially entertained as a groom for Lady Elizabeth Tudor during her youth, however the Scots rejected it, and after a string of betrothals, he ended up with Lady Anne Hamilton, the daughter of James Hamilton and Margaret Douglas.

Margaret can not inherit ahead of Albany and I doubt she would be married to the Duke of Brittany (as the second son of Louis and Anne was to inherit Brittany).
A second son would NEVER be Duke of Rothesay (who is the Scottish equivalent of Duke of Cornwall) and Elizabeth Tudor is unlikely to marry/be offered for a second son of the King of Scotland. The proposed Scottish match for her would be the elder brother not the younger one.
And a Scottish match would be both worthless and useless for the heir of Portugal

He can die at Flodden.

Albany? He was neither at Flodden or in Scotland at the death of James IV and had no reason at all for being there

 

[isabella]

And now we have the the updated family tree for the House of Trastamara. I‘d appreciate any ideas for titles for the second son of the King of Spain

• Isabella I, Queen of Castile and Leon (b. 1451, d. 1510) m. Ferdinand II, King of Aragon (b. 1452, d. 1516)
  • Isabella of Aragon, Infanta of Spain (b. 1470, d. 1500) m. Manuel I, King of Portugal (b. 1469, d. 1521)
    • Isabella of Portugal, Princess of Portugal (b. 1497, d. 1571) m. Ferdinand VI, King of Spain (b. 1496, d. 1560)
      • Ferdinand VII, King of Spain (b. 1522, d. 1580) m. Anne of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1525, d. 1578)
      • Juan of Spain, Viceroy of Naples (b. 1524, d. 1591) m. Eleanor of Toledo (b. 1522, d. 1582)
      • Isabella of Spain, Infanta of Spain (b. 1525, d. 1571) m. Duarte II, King of Portugal (b. 1527, d. 1565)
  • Juan, Prince of Asturias (b. 1478, d. 1500) m. Joanna of Naples (b. 1478, d. 1530)
    • Ferdinand VI, King of Spain (b. 1498, d. 1560) m. Isabella of Portugal, Princess of Portugal (b. 1497, d. 1571)
      • Ferdinand VII, King of Spain (b. 1522, d. 1580) m. Anne of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1525, d. 1578)
      • Juan, Viceory of Naples (b. 1524, d. 1591) m. Eleanor of Toledo (b. 1522, d. 1582)
      • Isabella of Spain, Infanta of Spain (b. 1525, d. 1571) m. Duarte II, King of Portugal (b. 1527, d. 1565)
  • Joanna of Aragon, Infanta of Spain (b. 1479, d. 1552) m. Philip I, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1478, d. 1524)
    • Eleanor of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1498, d. 1548) m. Henry VIII, King of England (b. 1491, d. 1553)
    • Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b. 1500, d. 1561) m. Anne of France, Princess of France (b. 1501, d. 1567)
    • Isabella of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1501, d. 1535) m. Christian II, King of Denmark (b. 1481, d. 1559)
    • Ferdinand, Archduke of Austria (b. 1503, d. 1566) m. Mary of Hungary, Princess of Hungary (b. 1503, d. 1557)
    • Mary of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1505, d. 1558) m. Louis II, King of Hungary (b. 1505, d. 1531)
    • Catherine of Austria, Archduchess of Austria (b. 1507, d. 1577) m. Joao III, King of Portugal (b. 1504, d. 1561)
  • Maria of Aragon, Infanta of Spain (b. 1482, d. 1514) m. Philibert II, Duke of Savoy (b. 1480, d. 1530)
    • Philip III, Duke of Savoy (b. 1505, d. 1547) m. Isabella of Portugal, Infanta of Portugal (b. 1504, d. 1558)
  • Catherine of Aragon, Infanta of Spain (b. 1485, d. 1502)) m. Arthur Tudor, Prince of Wales (b. 1486, d, 1502)

Isabella of Portugal‘s title would be Infanta of Portugal, not Princess of Portugal (as that is the title of the heir apparent or presumptive). Also you called Ferdinand of Austria’s wife Mary instead of Anna as OTL (and as her father was Polish is unlikely she would be a Mary), while the Portuguese Duchess of Savoy will not be an Isabella as that is the name of her elder half-sister (still I doubt who Maria would marry in Savoy as Philibert’s first wife died only in 1499 and he remarried in 1501 OTL. Isabella would likely search a Crown for Maria before marrying her in Savoy meaning who Maria would be pushed to Manuel as soon Isabel dies as here he had no heir)

 

[Andrewtsal]

Looks amazing! Viceroy of naples is an appropiate title.

Who was the second wife of Manuel?

Mary and louis had a son?

Second wife as of right now is Charlotte of Naples who marries him in order to get her away from Savoy. Although I am starting to grow fond of her marrying in Savoy and Marie of Aragon marrying Manuel I as OTL.

They do have a son named Vladislaus who has a long regency due to Louis II dying unfortunately young still.

 

[Andrewtsal]

Isabella of Portugal‘s title would be Infanta of Portugal, not Princess of Portugal (as that is the title of the heir apparent or presumptive). Also you called Ferdinand of Austria’s wife Mary instead of Anna as OTL (and as her father was Polish is unlikely she would be a Mary), while the Portuguese Duchess of Savoy will not be an Isabella as that is the name of her elder half-sister (still I doubt who Maria would marry in Savoy as Philibert’s first wife died only in 1499 and he remarried in 1501 OTL. Isabella would likely search a Crown for Maria before marrying her in Savoy meaning who Maria would be pushed to Manuel as soon Isabel dies as here he had no heir)

Thank you for catching my mistakes! And yes, I’m thinking it will be more likely Maria marries in Portugal as OTL.

 

[isabella]

Second wife as of right now is Charlotte of Naples who marries him in order to get her away from Savoy. Although I am starting to grow fond of her marrying in Savoy and Marie of Aragon marrying Manuel I as OTL.

As Charlotte of Naples was ward of her French maternal relatives she would likely marry as OTL. In any case a Portuguese match for her make zero sense, while a Savoy match could work (still In think who would be better leaving Charlotte to her OTL match and simply keep Yolande Louise alive. She would be 15 in 1502 meaning who that is the earliest year for a kid as she would consummate the marriage between 1501 and 1503)

They do have a son named Vladislaus who has a long regency due to Louis II dying unfortunately young still.

Still better than OTL for them

Thank you for catching my mistakes!

Can happen to anyone (I need to remember to triple check dates in the trees, and titles elsewhere as sometimes I made worst ones)

And yes, I’m thinking it will be more likely Maria marries in Portugal as OTL.

Good

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

He can die at Flodden.

he was relaxing by the pool in France at the time (although IIRC he was fighting in Louis XII's army). He only returned to Scotland after James IV's death to challenge Margaret Tudor's regency. And given that his wife's only pregnancy was post-Flodden, there's no reason to believe things would run the same course. François I would also not be able to prevent him from remarrying like he did OTL