Likelihood that Queen Anne of Great Britain has a child that survives into adulthood.

[What if]

To be clear I'm not just talking about after she became Queen, I only mentioned the title to guarantee there would be no confusion with Anne Boleyn.

Now on the main point. Considering Prince Edward, the Duke of Gloucester, survived until age 11 what are people's thoughts on the possibility that Anne could have had a child that survived into adulthood?

As being honest I think its a bit more than coincidence that her elder sister Queen Mary didn't have any children and that their father James that second had some trouble with children as well. However, James did manage to have a son and as I said Prince Edward did survive for 11 years.

So what are everyone else's thoughts?

 

[Viveka Elm]

There's always a chance, if you believe in fate and destiny. If were trying to be more realistic, probably not. The Stuarts were already a family that had many sicknesses than manifested themselves in different ways. It is usually traced to Mary, Queen of Scot with porphyria affecting many of them. I looked up porphyria and it can greatly affect the outcome of pregnancy, what illnesses, or defects an infant may have, etc. This could be the issue that Queen Anne was dealing with, but I'm not sure.

 

[Ivan Lupo]

There's always a chance, if you believe in fate and destiny. If were trying to be more realistic, probably not. The Stuarts were already a family that had many sicknesses than manifested themselves in different ways. It is usually traced to Mary, Queen of Scot with porphyria affecting many of them. I looked up porphyria and it can greatly affect the outcome of pregnancy, what illnesses, or defects an infant may have, etc. This could be the issue that Queen Anne was dealing with, but I'm not sure.

I had also read that Anne was believed to suffer from either lupus or antiphospholipid syndrome, both of which can cause excessive blood clotting due to a lack of natural anti-coagulants. This could cause excessively thick blood that may help to explain Anne's chronic health problems, but would be extremely detrimental to small children and infants. It may explain why so many of her children didn't survive, and she very likely could have passed the condition to any or all of her offspring. Considering the limited medical knowledge of the period, it wouldn't be surprising she lost so many pregnancies and children, including Prince William at his older age.

However, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that her son could survive, though could be sickly for the rest of his life, but a very plausible POD could provide for William being born lucky and free of his family's infirmities.

Needless to say, the course of British history is altered forever, though I imagine that William's uncle James Francis would still press his own claims. William IV would probably get married as soon as possible if they have concerns over his health and there are probably a vast number of Protestant princesses to choose from.

 

[Tyler96]

Were the early two daughters reasonably healthy? Because then them being taken out by smallpox is pure bad luck, and has nothing to do with Anne's likely underlying health issues.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Were the early two daughters reasonably healthy? Because then them being taken out by smallpox is pure bad luck, and has nothing to do with Anne's likely underlying health issues.

They were AFAIK. However, while William of Gloucester is often touted as a "great hope" the truth is that he'd possibly end up as a sort of British Carlos II. He suffered from asthma (Kensington House was bought because it was believed the air from the nearby gravel pits would be beneficial), hydrocephaly (the autopsy drained a cup of water from his brain), and chronic spells of dizzyness (which led to his reluctance to climb stairs and him having to be tied to the saddle of a horse when learning to ride). Likely this was also the reason why he was late learning to walk. Not necessarily stupidity or disability but a subconscious fear of falling.

Anne's daughters surviving in 1687 and that being a POD for one of her later pregnancies resulting in a healthy son.

@Ivan Lupo I was under the impression Anne caught syphilis from her hubby was an explanation for the frequent child losing

 

[What if]

@Ivan Lupo I was under the impression Anne caught syphilis from her hubby was an explanation for the frequent child losing

I didn't think her symptoms aligned with syphilis diagnosis and I don't think Prince George of Denmark was ever noted as having any symptoms related to syphilis.

 

[Ivan Lupo]

@Ivan Lupo I was under the impression Anne caught syphilis from her hubby was an explanation for the frequent child losing

Syphilis is one hypothesis it seems, but there appear to be medical journals that refute that, along with porphyria. Bear in mind that a lot of these sources are behind an annoying academic paywall. I don't at all claim that you can definitely rule syphilis out, but most of the sources I've come across point to the ones I mentioned.

Switching gears here, one name that stuck out to me as a potential bride for William is Sophia Dorothea of Hanover, who in awesome historical irony is the daughter of OTL George I and the OTL mother of Frederick the Great. She of course is descended from James I by his daughter Elizabeth Stuart.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Switching gears here, one name that stuck out to me as a potential bride for William is Sophia Dorothea of Hanover, who in awesome historical irony is the daughter of OTL George I and the OTL mother of Frederick the Great. She of course is descended from James I by his daughter Elizabeth Stuart.

Given Anne's hatred of the Hannovers, I don't see such a match happening TBH

 

[What if]

Given Anne's hatred of the Hannovers, I don't see such a match happening TBH

Considering the breech that occurred between Anne and Mary (and William as well) I think we shouldn't discount Marry and William forcing a marriage against her wishes since William is their heir, but there are probably plenty of choices that wouldn't aggravate the disputes within the family.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Considering the breech that occurred between Anne and Mary (and William as well) I think we shouldn't discount Marry and William forcing a marriage against her wishes since William is their heir, but there are probably plenty of choices that wouldn't aggravate the disputes within the family.

Mary's goddaughter, Maria Amalie of Nassau-Dietz might be up for grabs if there is an interest in a Dutch match. However, much as William and Mary might force a marriage, so too could Gloucester's uncle, the king of Denmark, block the same. After all, Gloucester would be a Danish prince as well as an English one, and Danish interests normally ran counter to Dutch ones.

 

[Ivan Lupo]

Given Anne's hatred of the Hannovers, I don't see such a match happening TBH

I suppose I never interpreted any real hatred of the Hanoverians on Anne's part, though I know she was adamantly opposed to Sophia being allowed to come to England to secure her possible succession since she didn't want the possibility of a rival court undermining her own power, which is a valid concern. However, if William is alive and well, and in need of a bride, Anne would have to consider any and all options.

Who else could be considered, in this case?

 

[King of Danes]

They were AFAIK. However, while William of Gloucester is often touted as a "great hope" the truth is that he'd possibly end up as a sort of British Carlos II. He suffered from asthma (Kensington House was bought because it was believed the air from the nearby gravel pits would be beneficial), hydrocephaly (the autopsy drained a cup of water from his brain), and chronic spells of dizzyness (which led to his reluctance to climb stairs and him having to be tied to the saddle of a horse when learning to ride). Likely this was also the reason why he was late learning to walk. Not necessarily stupidity or disability but a subconscious fear of falling

It is thought that the hydrocephaly stemmed from a case of meningitis he suffered from as an infant. The dizziness he had is also thought to be because of the hydrocephaly, so if his meningitis never happened his health would not be much worse than that of his father or uncle William, who both also suffered from asthma. With only the asthma I see no reason as to why he shouldn’t have been able to grow up and potentially have descendants of his own.

@Ivan Lupo I was under the impression Anne caught syphilis from her hubby was an explanation for the frequent child losing

Syphilis has often been used as a go-to disease when there have been health issues among nobility involving instability or infertility, but I think it very unlikely here. George and Anne’s marriage was noted as being particularly faithful, and as far as I know he had no known mistresses. It is far more likely that Anne suffered from antiphospholid syndrome or lupus, of which I consider the former more likely, as I don’t believe there are sources describing the butterflyrash common to lupus on her.

Were the early two daughters reasonably healthy? Because then them being taken out by smallpox is pure bad luck, and has nothing to do with Anne's likely underlying health issues.

Afaik the two daughters were healthy enough and only died due to smallpox, but they were so young when they died so it’s hard to tell, really.


As a wife for Prince William, then how about Marie-Louise of Hesse-Kassel or Caroline of Ansbach? Both come from decent protestant families and are not closely related to the royal family. They both also were fertile otl, so childbearing should not be an issue. They also had some intelligence. Of the two, Marie-Louise would be closer in age, but if they wanted William producing heirs asap, then Caroline would maybe be the likelier choice.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I suppose I never interpreted any real hatred of the Hanoverians on Anne's part, though I know she was adamantly opposed to Sophia being allowed to come to England to secure her possible succession since she didn't want the possibility of a rival court undermining her own power, which is a valid concern.

Her hatred of them went back to the beginning of the 1680s when Anne had been touted as a possible bride for George. Much like Leopold I, George I had rejected a match with Anne due to "the baseness of the mother" (Leopold's words about a potential marriage to OTL Mary II). Anne never forgave him for it. She didn't particularly like Sophia either, and Liselotte d'Orléans - in one of her letters - says that none of Sophia's own children liked their mother, "even the Queen of Prussia, who was her mother's darling" - which might translate that Sophia's personality might have been a bit much.

 

[King of Danes]

I suppose I never interpreted any real hatred of the Hanoverians on Anne's part, though I know she was adamantly opposed to Sophia being allowed to come to England to secure her possible succession since she didn't want the possibility of a rival court undermining her own power, which is a valid concern. However, if William is alive and well, and in need of a bride, Anne would have to consider any and all options.

Who else could be considered, in this case?

As for the Hannoverian hatred, it might also stem from her youth where Otl George I courted her but later changed his mind, so there are some personal reasons for her bitterness towards them

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Of the two, Marie-Louise would be closer in age, but if they wanted William producing heirs asap, then Caroline would maybe be the likelier choice.

But then we wouldn't have the hilarious anecdote of Johan Friso of Dietz needing to marry and his mother comparing the two candidates (Marie Luise of Kassel and another lady) to two chairs and that "he should pick whichever will seat him more comfortably".

Although, at the same time, Marie Luise's dad had been battle buddies with Prince Rupert, and the Hesses were related to the Oldenburgs (albeit by marriage), her aunt was married to Christian V, and her great-aunt, Emilie, had been princess de la Tremoille, while Emilie's daughter was Countess van Aldenburg

 

[King of Danes]

Although, at the same time, Marie Luise's dad had been battle buddies with Prince Rupert, and the Hesses were related to the Oldenburgs (albeit by marriage), her aunt was married to Christian V, and her great-aunt, Emilie, had been princess de la Tremoille, while Emilie's daughter was Countess van Aldenburg

They wouldn’t be biologically related to the Hesses so still no impediment to genes, and the Aldenburg line was so distantly related to the kings of Denmark that it wouldn’t matter I believe

 

[isabella]

Both Marie-Louise of Hesse-Kassel and Caroline of Ansbach are very good choices as wife for a surviving William of Gloucester

 

[Ivan Lupo]

For the sake of shaking things up even more, suppose that Anne actually dies before William III, but William of Gloucester survives and succeeds his uncle directly in 1701 as William IV of England and William II of Scotland. Does this at all change his marriage prospects, especially since he would ascend to the throne as a minor and would have a regency? Furthermore, do England and Scotland merge into Great Britain here? What about involvement into the War of the Spanish Succession? Or for that matter, bids to supplant William in favor of his uncle James Francis Stewart?

 

[What if]

For the sake of shaking things up even more, suppose that Anne actually dies before William III, but William of Gloucester survives and succeeds his uncle directly in 1701 as William IV of England and William II of Scotland. Does this at all change his marriage prospects, especially since he would ascend to the throne as a minor and would have a regency? Furthermore, do England and Scotland merge into Great Britain here? What about involvement into the War of the Spanish Succession? Or for that matter, bids to supplant William in favor of his uncle James Francis Stewart?

I would have thought that due to succession laws at the time William was already in front of his mother in succeeding his uncle and aunt? On the creation of Great Britain I think that was going to happen at some point.

As for the Spanish war of succession I think England/ Great Britain would be involved TTL though depending on the POD the war may be a bit different. In OTL Joseph Ferdinand Leopold of Bavaria, the original heir of Charles II of Spain, died of suspected small pox in 1699. Depending on what the POD is Joseph Ferdinand's death could be butterflied though I think the war would still happen as Louis XIV really wanted his grandson on the Spanish throne.

On the Jacobites I don't think they will be any more successful than OTL as I would argue it wasn't loyalty to the Stuart that was the main thing fuelling them rather it was being in social and economic decline and thus latching on to anyone that might alleviate their grievances. The principle base of the Jacobites on the main island were the Scottish highlanders. When the Stuarts were in charge they never got along with the highlanders so any alliance between them I don't think would be long lasting or successful.

 

[Victoria]

I would have thought that due to succession laws at the time William was already in front of his mother in succeeding his uncle and aunt? On the creation of Great Britain I think that was going to happen at some point.

No. The succession laws are that time were (and had been since the late Tudor period) male preference primogeniture. Anne was William and Mary's heiress and her surviving children would come after her in the line of succession.