If the Mongol empire hadn't passed the Urals into Russia and hadn't invaded the middle east and destroyed Baghdad, how would things progress? Would the plague be less devastating? Would Islamic nations be more successful?
Less successful Mongols
- Thread starter Styrofoam Boots
- Start date
Lots of things I see.
1: Baghdad remains a great center of civilization longer (perhaps accompanied by Abbasids with power?)
2: No Mughal Empire, meaning much smaller Muslim population in India unless an analogue comes around.
3: No Timurids or Golden Horde, for that matter. Samarqand may remain not as major a city.
4: Russia may be centered at Kiev or Novgorod in that timeline.
5: Longer lifespan for the Georgians and Kipchaks.
6: By contrast, shorter lifespan for Armenian Cilicia.
1: Baghdad remains a great center of civilization longer (perhaps accompanied by Abbasids with power?)
2: No Mughal Empire, meaning much smaller Muslim population in India unless an analogue comes around.
3: No Timurids or Golden Horde, for that matter. Samarqand may remain not as major a city.
4: Russia may be centered at Kiev or Novgorod in that timeline.
5: Longer lifespan for the Georgians and Kipchaks.
6: By contrast, shorter lifespan for Armenian Cilicia.
If a truncated Mongol Empire=no Timur∴no Timurid defeat of Ottomans in 1402=Constantinople falls as much as several decades earlier=exit Byzantines, stage left...
Nevermind that events more than a century and a half after the POD are likely to be butterflied away. Heck, the Ottomans amounting to much might be butterflied away with this POD.
That is possible. A whole herd of butterflies would be fluttering about.
Maybe there would be a Serbian conquest of Constantinople for all I know...
Maybe there would be a Serbian conquest of Constantinople for all I know...
Who have their issues, but certainly could pull together. It would be interesting to see that explored (your timeline uses them, I know, but it didn't go into much detail).
Eh...Vladimir or Galich. Maybe Chernigov. Kiev would remain important but it didn't have a strong local dynasty, and Novgorod did its own thing.
One other thing people overlook in that area is MUCH earlier Russian settlement on the Don Steppes. They were building the first towns along the Don basin and preparing serious moves towards the Volga when the Mongols arrived.
Bulgarian Constantinople? Konstantinoplis? With that could Anatolia be a Slavic-Turkish hybrid?
To avoid Mongols in Russia and Mesopotamia, would they go to India or Indochina or would it just be easier to have them lose the invasions?
You forget the Big One. The real deal for mongols.
China.
They would maybe focus more, all efforts in the east. And so, yeah, maybe beyond later...
The Plague was propagated easier by the increasing traffic between regions of the world, so.. maybe. or maybe just later, slower 'inroad'...
It was Silk Road trade and Indian Ocean trade shipping that brought the Plague west. I would see the transmission happening whether or not there were fragmented states or wars as there was always alternative routes & the trade an imperative. Or, to quote the SF novel "Dune", "the Spice must flow"....
A POD that would sidestep the Plague would probably entail there not being a Chinese Civilization.
A POD that would sidestep the Plague would probably entail there not being a Chinese Civilization.
Flocculencio
Donor
The Mughal Empire was only the last and most prominent of the Indo-Islamic empires. Before that the Delhi sultanate, the Bahmanids and their successor Deccan sultanates and so forth were still prominent
There were other Muslim dynasties-in-waiting in the sub-continent that could have succeeded the Delhi Sultanate (really a catch-all for a number of different dynasties, anyway) instead of the Mughals. And other invaders could come out of Central Asia in lieu of Mughals, as well.