Latin spread

[Derek Jackson]

I was wondering what might have made Latin become the main international language,

I was wondering about maybe the Church wanting a more educated laity than in OTL before any reformation. (I admit that this would have to be a differenent kind of Catholic Church.)

So that by the present time nearly every child would learn their mother tongue and Latin and few would learn other people's vernaculars.

How much difference would this make?

Would British and American kids cope with that language?

 

[Paladin]

You'd have to go waaay back for that. Technically, for a while (the middle ages-renaissance) Latin was the international language, and everyone did learn it. However, to keep that going, your best bet would be to stop the linguistic drift that led to the rise of the Romance languages, and that's pretty much nigh impossible short of keeping the actual empire around.

Another problem is that spoke Latin is very, very different, from classical or Church latin. These written forms were not really meant to be used as a vernacular, and vernacular Latin sounded, in some areas, completly different from the written form.

 

[Max Sinister]

Pronunciation would be a problem to solve. I can imagine some German telling some English: "Decide about the language, English or Latin - but Latinglish isn't a language!" (in Latin,of course.)

 

[Paul Spring]

Pronunciation would be a problem to solve. I can imagine some German telling some English: "Decide about the language, English or Latin - but Latinglish isn't a language!" (in Latin,of course.)

Yes, and undoubtedly English-speakers would also be making fun of German-speakers for giving Latin a more "German" sound. Back in the Renaissance, the Italians made fun of people in other parts of Europe because they tended to slant Latin pronunciations towards the way they pronounced letters in their own language, while the Italians assumed that they were pronouncing Latin in the "pure", classical manner. This trend would probably continue, and even if everyone spoke Latin, you would probably still be able to tell what country, or even what part of each country, they came from, based on their different pronunciations.

 

[MrP]

You'd have to go waaay back for that. Technically, for a while (the middle ages-renaissance) Latin was the international language, and everyone did learn it. However, to keep that going, your best bet would be to stop the linguistic drift that led to the rise of the Romance languages, and that's pretty much nigh impossible short of keeping the actual empire around.

Another problem is that spoke Latin is very, very different, from classical or Church latin. These written forms were not really meant to be used as a vernacular, and vernacular Latin sounded, in some areas, completly different from the written form.

Well said. IIRC, old Dante considered the Italian he spoke to be Latin. Languages inevitably shift over time, and it's a hell of a business to keep them sat still for several centuries.

 

[Leo Caesius]

Well said. IIRC, old Dante considered the Italian he spoke to be Latin.

Actually, in his De vulgare eloquentia, Dante strongly criticized the Sardinians for speaking a dialect that was too much like Latin; he claimed they mimicked Latin grammar, just like monkeys mimic human beings. He was a staunch proponent of developing a literary form of the vernacular.

If you were to butterfly Dante away, who knows - Latin might still be with us.

 

[Smaug]

For Western Civ. Its either gotta be Greek or Latin. The language of Science and the language of law.

 

[MrP]

Actually, in his De vulgare eloquentia, Dante strongly criticized the Sardinians for speaking a dialect that was too much like Latin; he claimed they mimicked Latin grammar, just like monkeys mimic human beings. He was a staunch proponent of developing a literary form of the vernacular.

If you were to butterfly Dante away, who knows - Latin might still be with us.

Oops-a-daisy! Clearly, I didnae recall correctly. Thanks for setting me straight, old boy.

 

[Wendell]

Suppose that the Founders of the United States had decided that Latin would be the language of their new nation, so to further shed them of their Englishness?

 

[Nosb]

Simple, Roman survives or has a less voilent break-up by collapsing into secessor states like the Soviet Union did. Of course some of states in France, and especially along the Rhine, would have larger higher German populations.

I'll give a more complete TL. Competent Emperor(s) reform the Empire, maybe finding a better way to select a successor. Next, when population shifts cause problems along the Roman eastern border and some - a very controlled amount - are allowed in, but are dispersed thoroughly throughout the Western Empire, thus avoiding the problems of OTL of independent tribes settling in mass and revolting when the Rome looked weak. Because the West is stronger, the Huns and other Germans go into the East causing it to break down by the 6th Century. Around the year 700 Rome falls, but the states that follow or more stable and retain much of the same culture as before, but with a local touch. The states in England, Burgundy, Austria and Belgium are overrun by Germans - who are still a problem - but Latin survives as the language of commerce, politics, religion and high culture. Butterflies and the lack of the Dark Age cause the printing press to be invent 400 years sooner and most early works are of course in Latin. This leads to an early Renaissance, early discovery of America, standard stuff, but Latin maintains the language of the world, never being replaced by French in the West and Greek in the East, or later English.