Will Kürlich Kerl
Banned
what is the largest possible Spain on the European continent? (Charles V's reign doesn't count, because it wasn't ruled from Spain, but from the Holy Roman Empire)
Largest possible Spain
- Thread starter Will Kürlich Kerl
- Start date
Portugal is a obvious inclusion. There might be possibilities in possesing parts of modern France. Another direction lies to the south. Just maybe weak leadership in Morroco would have allowed conquest and a Europeanization of coastal Morroco. I dont know if inclusion of the Rif area & other mountain populations would have been practical.
Somehow prevent, stop, or super-amplify the Reformation, so that Spain and the Netherlands are the same religion (whether that is Catholicism or some Protestant branch). Then Spain keeps the Netherlands, which is a huge boon to their treasury allowing the maintenance of other territories elsewhere.
And the Dutch will happily accept being overtaxed and underappreciated because their distant paper pushing ruler is of the same faith why again?
Willmatron
Banned
have Spain attempt to get ahold of some of Italy during the period it was broken up. But if you were to consider adding parts of North Africa then you can have the Reconquista move south.
Yes. Belgium, Naples, Milan, and Franche Comte. All wealthy and distant like the Netherlands, all ruled by Spaniards, but stayed under Spanish control much longer without much religious conflict.
If France is a different religion form both Netherlands and Spain, the Netherlands will even be okay with over-taxation if they are protected from the French heretics.
But who says they will even be over-taxed, with different wars from OTL? The Spanish kings can also seek a different solution, like increasing their portion of American gold (may cause unrest out there, but the challenge only asks for a large Spain in Europe).
Portugal, the Netherlands, Occitania, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Naples, Sardinia, Corsica, Genoa, Malta?
On the continent only, I'm afraid, else someone would surely have mentioned Morocco by now.
But Portugal is one of these things that seems obvious in retrospect. If Spain holds Portugal, it's bigger.
Well, given that Morocco is often described as "extreme southern Europe"...
It would make more sense to include North Africa in the possibilities.
Hmm - would it be possible for Spain to conquer all of Occitania, Italy, Dalmatia, Portugal, and Malta?
Or even better - Spanish Greece!
(I'm trying to see how possible it is to have Spain reconquer a large portion of the old Roman Empire.)
With an early POD: Something akin to the Spaña in the Raptor of Spain is probably the largest Spain you can get. It includes: the entire iberian Peninsula, a good chunk of Southern France, North African coast roughly up to Bejaia, Corsica, Sardinia, and all of Italy south of the Appenines (not Sicily), and a few Greek Islands.
You could probably expand it to include Sicily, a larger chunk of France, and more of North Africa. But even in that TL the line between Spain and a New Western Roman Empire (based out of Toledo) is slowly fading.
You could probably expand it to include Sicily, a larger chunk of France, and more of North Africa. But even in that TL the line between Spain and a New Western Roman Empire (based out of Toledo) is slowly fading.
An Iberian-Italian block seems the best possibility for a long-term union: unless it happens very early indeed, northern France is not going to stand for the south being in other hands. The Pyrenees are fairly defensible, and although the Alpine defenses of Italy are historically more porous, assistance from Iberia should make them less easily overrun by pesky Frenchmen or nosy Austrians. The Netherlands are rather harder to support by sea with the French and British both being able to take advantage of choke points, are flat and easily invaded country, and even if the religious difference goes away are culturally, economically, and linguistically more different than Iberians and Italians. Of course, the Papacy may make itself a problem at some point...
Bruce
Bruce
*shrug* an earliest POD wasn't established at the start of the thread, it could totally go all the way back to before Occitania became part of France
And religious conflict isn't why the Dutch felt that this was a problem, so the fact other regions of Spain didn't feel overtaxed and underappreciated doesn't mean the Dutch didn't.
I doubt it.
What wars are going to change in regards to the burden of taxes on the Netherlanders?
The Ottomans are still out there. Italy is still there. France is still a problem. Just to name three.
You mentioned Spanish and Austrian Habsburgs, so I assumed 16th century on PODs - didn't realize those were two unrelated thoughts, sorry.
Bruce