Joint US USSR operation against PRC
- Thread starter Monk78
- Start date
Weirdly, this is the scenario that some people came up with to explain how the US Army got into the Gobi Desert in Fallout's Sino-American war, since in Fallout, China is the main player of the Cold War, and the USSR is neutral-to-friendly towards the US, the lore only states that the US captured Shantou, Shanghai, Nanjing, and (allegedly shortly before the nukes dropped) Beijing itself.
All of these cities are close to the coast, but how did US troops get to the Gobi desert? so I just assumed that the USSR permitted US troops to invade China via-their Mongolian People's Republic satellite state, which together with the Americans capturing Beijing, was the catalyst to the Great War, since China would now be facing a joint Soviet-American invasion of the country.
I was thinking of such a Fallout-esque scenario of an inverted Sino-Soviet Split, where China becomes the main rival of the US in the Cold War, and the USSR becomes friendlier towards the US in finding a common enemy.
All of these cities are close to the coast, but how did US troops get to the Gobi desert? so I just assumed that the USSR permitted US troops to invade China via-their Mongolian People's Republic satellite state, which together with the Americans capturing Beijing, was the catalyst to the Great War, since China would now be facing a joint Soviet-American invasion of the country.
I was thinking of such a Fallout-esque scenario of an inverted Sino-Soviet Split, where China becomes the main rival of the US in the Cold War, and the USSR becomes friendlier towards the US in finding a common enemy.
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raharris1973
Gone Fishin'
That's not the main geographic focus point. Lop Nur in west China was the initial test site.
The focus is not to physically occupy the test sites but to cripple the military and industrial infrastructure of PRC
raharris1973
Gone Fishin'
By the 60s the industrial and scientific infrastructure was spread over a lot of regions of the country, not just 'Manchuria'.
raharris1973
Gone Fishin'
Possibly Chinese programs could be set back several years by saturation bombing by both US and USSR air forces, maybe *just* using conventional munitions and not WMD. I would expect the Chinese to eventually pull atomic devices together though. The USSR has the range to easily mount ground raids over various other northern and northwestern portions of China. The US and Taiwan have capacity for ground raids along coastal China. Not as much of the back-up industrial infrastructure infrastructure was concentrated in the southwest before the mid 1960s as afterwards with the third-line/third-front program that Mao worked on response to to the possibility of the Vietnam War (and later Sino-Soviet clashes) escalating out of control into WWIII.
Apart from the destruction and devastation from a war that would likely not go to plan, what would be the end game for the USSR and US?
USSR replaces Mao with a new pro-Soviet Communist puppet?
Or the US to put the KMT and Chiang Kai-Shek back on the Mainland?
The superpowers will likely be in conflict with each other should this operation succeed, let alone made enemies with the entire population of China.
And where do the Soviets and US draw the line with other countries acquiring nuclear weapons?
A very messy scenario with little to gain from everyone involved.
USSR replaces Mao with a new pro-Soviet Communist puppet?
Or the US to put the KMT and Chiang Kai-Shek back on the Mainland?
The superpowers will likely be in conflict with each other should this operation succeed, let alone made enemies with the entire population of China.
And where do the Soviets and US draw the line with other countries acquiring nuclear weapons?
A very messy scenario with little to gain from everyone involved.
The U.S. knows better than to invade mainland China. MacArthur even said at one point that one who wants to find himself in a ground war in China needs to have his head checked. In fact, China along with Russia is one of the countries that can still repel a U.S. invasion.
This scenario can occur if the Sino-Soviet split was more hostile and China becomes as aggressive as OTL North Korea especially with the nuclear weapons.
The U.S. Navy would probably conducted limited strikes on Chinese coastal cities. It might even assist the Taiwanese to invade Hainan Island and Fujian Province.
The USSR could invade Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Xinjiang. Possibly, the Soviets would have supported ETIM separatists in Xinjiang.
This scenario can occur if the Sino-Soviet split was more hostile and China becomes as aggressive as OTL North Korea especially with the nuclear weapons.
The U.S. Navy would probably conducted limited strikes on Chinese coastal cities. It might even assist the Taiwanese to invade Hainan Island and Fujian Province.
The USSR could invade Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Xinjiang. Possibly, the Soviets would have supported ETIM separatists in Xinjiang.
That’s too much work I say better to destroy the industry and ignore the rest
But proliferation of more nukes esp in the communist bloc is never a good thing for US
Furthermore US Can hope that a land war between the two communist Giants will further discredit their ideology and weaken them
More communist nukes are a good thing for the US since those nukes are pointed at Moscow and are generations away from posing a threat to the US (in OTL, the PLA Second Artillery couldn't realistically attack the continental US until the mid 1990s (or mid aughts, depending on whether you're referring to a first or second strike capability))
In that case, why bother helping the USSR at all (since the PRC is by far the weaker party)?
The PLA SAC could technically strike the U.S. starting 1980 when they first tested their DF-5 in the South Pacific, but majority of Chinese nuclear missiles were aimed at the USSR, though according to a DoD report (can't find the source, word of mouth) as of 1989-1992, the Chinese had 3 DF-5s pointed at the CONUS despite the quasi-alliance with America and the Sino-American ELINT stations in Xinjiang.
China's first ICBM test in May 1980. China actually informed the region and the international community about these tests before hand. Li Xinnian also informed his Australian and New Zealander counterparts of the tests week before during a state visit to southern cross countries.
This was actually shadowed by the Royal Australian Navy warships HMAS Jervis Bay and HMAS Vampire.
Actual photo below:
Newspaper from The Canberra Times:
CHINESE TEST SUCCESS Naval ships see missile re-entry - The Canberra Times (ACT : 1926 - 1995) - 19 May 1980
Two Australian warships were among a large fleet of vessels which observed the final phase of China's intercontinental ballistic missile test in the South ...
trove.nla.gov.au
According to this archived file (China's ballistic missile programs).
Page 20 (Browser Page 16) mentions:
The DF-5 wasn't really reliable until the mid 1990s, given the absolute backward state of Chinese technology for the first 40 years of the PRC. Even when operational, it'd require a very long fueling process (which the US ISR of the 1980s and later would absolutely pick up).The PLA SAC could technically strike the U.S. starting 1980 when they first tested their DF-5 in the South Pacific, but majority of Chinese nuclear missiles were aimed at the USSR, though according to a DoD report (can't find the source, word of mouth) as of 1989-1992, the Chinese had 3 DF-5s pointed at the CONUS despite the quasi-alliance with America and the Sino-American ELINT stations in Xinjiang.
China's first ICBM test in May 1980. China actually informed the region and the international community about these tests before hand. Li Xinnian also informed his Australian and New Zealander counterparts of the tests week before during a state visit to southern cross countries.
This was actually shadowed by the Royal Australian Navy warships HMAS Jervis Bay and HMAS Vampire.
Actual photo below:
Newspaper from The Canberra Times:
CHINESE TEST SUCCESS Naval ships see missile re-entry - The Canberra Times (ACT : 1926 - 1995) - 19 May 1980
Two Australian warships were among a large fleet of vessels which observed the final phase of China's intercontinental ballistic missile test in the South ...
According to this archived file (China's ballistic missile programs).
Page 20 (Browser Page 16) mentions:
Three DF-5s is a joke (and that's assuming they all flew and successfully delivered their warheads).