Now John Lackland has gone down in history as the man who not only made England a papal fief and signed the Magna Carta. He also lost most of the Plantagenet possessions in France with the exception of Gascony which England held until 1453.
but what if John loses Gascony also? Let’s say a Castilian type battle happens and England gets driven from France two centuries sooner, what next?
My initial thoughts are thay John won’t take this lying down. He’ll try and reclaim the lands and likely make himself bankrupt doing so. Which likely leads to revolts Fromm his barons and the while
Magna Carta stick.
my other thought is that he takes this lying down, begrudgingly abd with a lot of mumbling. But he takes it abd focused on extending England’s hold over the isles abd Ireland.
which one seems more likely to you all?
@Kellan Sullivan @isabella @Captain shadow @anyobe else
I think a lot would depend is if this break's him as a king because a lot depends on a kings military reputation medieval ages Henry ii, Richard the Lionheart, Edward I, Edward III and Henry V where great kings due to there skills as general.
In contrast we have disasters such as king Jon, Richard ii, Edward II and Henry Vi
I have a few suggestions that may help I'll give you ideas.
1. Louis Viii of France is successfully made king of England and except the Magna carta which gives him the barons support.
In this time line could have the kingdom as a duel Kingdom of France and England or alternatively otl Louis iX gets France and England goes to otl Charles of Anjue Louis VIII second son. You could even change the name to William or Henry to give more association to there Norman ancestry.
2. Jon loses all of the Plantagenet holding on the continent but he has a son with his first wife Isabel of Gloucester who is called Henry or Robert who forces his father to abdicate. This Henry III or Robert I of England knows that England dies not have the money or the army to fight the kingdom of France. My be he could do the reforms of Edward I of England did in creating the army that Edward III, Edward the black Prince and Henry V used successfully in France and Spain.
My be they conquer Wales and see how effective the longbows are or my be he was in Wales at some point.
3. John the redeemed the big proplem with Jon is hie he is as a person he does have courage but he is not a leader of men my be in this time line he managed to show respect and learn how to rule in the island of Ireland.
4. Jon losers all of his ancestral lands and let's say Castile take Southern Aquitaine he knows that he will never be able to take back the lands so he looks for why to strengthen his Dynasty and reputation in the British isles.
My be he conquered Wales in order to get back some prestige and show that he is a conqueror like William the conqueror.
My be he makes reform so that his descendants don't suffer the same humiliation.
I think a lot would depend on what exactly happens my be Arthur of Brittany escapes John and he takes the Northern or all of the continental Holdings.
My be castile takes parts of the Aquitaine and Philip Augustus takes the rest and from this Jon knows he dies not have the money, the men or the dynastic loyalty to fight two well establish Dynasty.
Are you looking for a king Jon that learns to be a King?
