I thought the idea of Stalin's family emigrating to California was clever but the story was terrible. I don't claim to be an interesting writer but Mr Turtledove was very lazy on this one. How about Steele becoming the Democratic party boss of California and clashing with GOP and New Deal? How does that affect the USA?
Joe Steele?
- Thread starter Narrowback57
- Start date
Honestly, I liked the story. Perhaps because it was told in a single novel and didn't drag the Steele presidency out over five books. It was a lot better paced than most of Turtledove's recent work, IMO.
...in fact, this is one of his books where I actually want sequels. I want to see what damage the Steele administration did to American political culture. I want to see his complicated legacy decades down the line. IMO, Steele is going to still be a very popular president among the American working class, and especially among immigrants, for decades, because he was one of their own who made good. Unlike "D for Delano" Roosevelt. I want to see what politicians posture as his political heirs. What does TTL LBJ look like? Does Reagan stay a Democrat and claim Steele is his favorite President?
...in fact, this is one of his books where I actually want sequels. I want to see what damage the Steele administration did to American political culture. I want to see his complicated legacy decades down the line. IMO, Steele is going to still be a very popular president among the American working class, and especially among immigrants, for decades, because he was one of their own who made good. Unlike "D for Delano" Roosevelt. I want to see what politicians posture as his political heirs. What does TTL LBJ look like? Does Reagan stay a Democrat and claim Steele is his favorite President?
jparker77
Banned
I liked the story, but the problem was that outside the US a lot of the basic events remained the exact same. Same Pearl Harbor attack, same German conquests....yeah, he swaps a divided Japan for Korea, and Joe Steele shoots a bunch of famous historical figures, but it doesn’t seem to have the sort of butterflies one might expect. There’s no talk about Steele setting up his own block with America‘s Latin American client states, the war is basically the same as OTL in a lot of aspects....I don’t know, I feel like he could have done so much more. Even sticking with parallelism a three way Cold War between a democratic British- French block, the US and it’s clients under Hoover, and the USSR would have been interesting.
I didn't see that Steele, a Democrat, could keep the big city northern and midwestern machines & segregationist South together in the party. I worked in the 80s with quite a few guys from WW2 who grew up in the Depression in New England, there's no way these guys were going to quietly be packed off to labor camps. Plus Turtledove had to bring all the henchmen over? We've got plenty of opportunists in our history. I just thought Steele could have been a Hiram Johnson on steroids kind of California leader, blackmailing the LA Times, doing his own CCC in the Sierras, battling the Roosevelt administration, maybe not a grand worldwide scope of a book but interesting story. His story had Americans reacting like the Russian peasantry, don't believe that would happen,Depression or not.
I liked the idea. And narratively it is one of Turtledove's better works since he focuses on just two characters who as journalists (and brothers) can be placed in the middle of the action while remaining mostly observers. It was a smart narrative device.
However, Turtledove can't help himself from taking shortcuts that end up ruining the concept altogether.
Having all of Stalin's cronies emigrate to the US was definitively a cop-out. It would have been much more interesting how Steele uses existing American figures (a mix of OTL politicians, gangsters, union leaders, J. Edgar Hoover, etc.) to build a political and party machine that leads the US into totalitarianism.
Similarly, not changing the progress of the war (and its outcome) after killing some very important figures in the US top brass and having Trotsky lead the USSR, also does a big disservice to the story.
However, Turtledove can't help himself from taking shortcuts that end up ruining the concept altogether.
Having all of Stalin's cronies emigrate to the US was definitively a cop-out. It would have been much more interesting how Steele uses existing American figures (a mix of OTL politicians, gangsters, union leaders, J. Edgar Hoover, etc.) to build a political and party machine that leads the US into totalitarianism.
Similarly, not changing the progress of the war (and its outcome) after killing some very important figures in the US top brass and having Trotsky lead the USSR, also does a big disservice to the story.
My guess is you see things going more like PRI-era mexico in levels of authoritarianism once Steele is gone. Essentially a PRI Mexico as run by the old pre-FDR catholic urbanites+southerners democratic coalition so pretty socially conservative, definitely economically reformist/"pragmatic".
Steele, Johnson, Connally, Reagan, Bush, Bush Jr, Jeb bush as presidents for this long era of one party rule. Maybe you see actual free elections in 2016 or you get George P. Bush in, idk.
Steele, Johnson, Connally, Reagan, Bush, Bush Jr, Jeb bush as presidents for this long era of one party rule. Maybe you see actual free elections in 2016 or you get George P. Bush in, idk.
Realistically how do you suppose politics in the Soviet Union would have shaped out with Stalin and some his cronies complete absence from the the Russian socialist seen all together?
I mean realistically I assume there might be some serious butterflies even before the Revolution.
I mean realistically I assume there might be some serious butterflies even before the Revolution.