"Images of 1984" - Stories from Oceania

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Yeah, or we just assume the simplest solution of all: Oceania exist, as well as the two other super states.

This is going strongly in the "I have a theory, so I desperately look for reasons why it is true" direction.
 
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Yeah, or we just assume the simplest solution of all: Oceania exist, as well as the two other super states.

This is going strongly in the "I have a theory, so I desperately look for reasons why it is true" direction.
:D Maybe it is...

The problem is that the portrayal of outside events in 1984 can't be trusted... and so we can put practically any interpretation we want on it.
 
The way I've always interpreted 1984 (and it's fresh in my mind, I read it a couple weeks ago) is that in the 50s a war between the West and the Soviets broke out. A revolution in Britain slightly earlier was the trigger, and the English Socialists immediately sided with the Soviets, but the Soviets didn't see the unstable regime as trustworthy, so they assumed that Britain was still an enemy. Thus, the "We never should have trusted them" part. After a few nuclear attacks, the US and the Soviets hammer out a treaty. All of Europe is now under the Soviet sphere of influence. This is where the Party derived 'Eurasia' from. Eastasia is simply an economic union between China, Japan, and the Indochinese states derived from US involvement in the Chinese Civil War. Oceania is actually a NATO-like organization centered in the Americas. Britain under the Party is not in this organization. Big Brother was originally Moseley, but after he died, the Party simply continued to use him as a mascot (manipulated voice recordings, etc). The Eurasian and Eastasian prisoners are actually any and all foreigners and suspected 'enemy spies' that the Party roots out. They've simply brainwashed people to see these victims of IngSoc as the enemy. This is part of a greater scheme to convince the people that Oceania is really at war. The rocketbomb attacks are actually the Party emptying its arsenal as per international regulations. Ireland and Scotland are independent, but the Party fiercely prohibits either country from any contact with Oceanian citizens.
 
Mosely?
1984 is far more communism gone bad (uber stalinism) than fascism.

I don't think Scotland would be independant but Ireland independant could be.
 
Mosely?
1984 is far more communism gone bad (uber stalinism) than fascism.

I don't think Scotland would be independant but Ireland independant could be.
Mosley was in the labour party originally, and if he remains in it and it radicalises, he having shown authoritarian tendencies in OTL probably would go along with it.

I'm rather liking the idea of an ultra-stalinist state supported by the US out of tactical necessity... It'd certainly explain the enmity with Russia, and the seemingly ludicrous statement of the USA and former British Empire being part of a giant socialist federation.
 
"I'm rather liking the idea of an ultra-stalinist state supported by the US out of tactical necessity... It'd certainly explain the enmity with Russia, and the seemingly ludicrous statement of the USA and former British Empire being part of a giant socialist federation."

I agree with that statement. In my eyes, which are naturally quite narrow given my limited knowledge of US polticis, it is close to ASB territory to imagine that radical pseudo-Stalinists rise to power in the US and unify their country with Great Britain - it gets even more implausible since supposedly Latin America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are also part of Oceania.

I think one can reach a consensus based on the assumption that most of the "information" we receive 1984 can only be trusted to a limited degree and that a substantial part of it is implausible, though it could easily be retconned as disinformation by the Party (it is not that much of a stretch, when one considers that most of North Korea's official history consists of lies (like Kim Il-sung being the supreme commander of all Korean resistance forces against the Japanese, Kim Jong-il being born at Mount Paektu and the Korean War being started by the US and South Korea and the North winning it single-handedly)).

We know that at least a part of the former UK is ruled by an oppressive dictatorship similar to the worst regimes of the past centuries - it could naturally be either fascist or socialist. But other than that, most of the world is undefined and thus one can define it independently, which is naturally both an advatange and a disadvantage.
 
Ron Hubbard rises again!

This is the introduction to my revision of L. Ron Hubbard's 'Final Blackout' and certainly results in a 1984 type world:

To understand the Lieutenant and his actions, we must first examine the world in which he grew up in and the world of his maturity. The phrase “no man is an island” is true of everyone and not least true of the Lieutenant.

A child of the last years of the first phase of the ‘Greatest War’, as Churchill put it, he grew up in a Britain blighted by radiation, starvation and disease. Like many of his generation, he wasn’t tall, but compact and strong with an inbuilt immunity to most influenza and other respiratory viruses. His bright, clear grey eyes could harden to a stormy gaze that few men could stand up to and allied with a very deceptive soft tone he made a very difficult man for others to ‘read’. The rest of his story is so clearly linked to the progress of the War, that to tell the story of one is to tell the story of the other.

After the armistice of 1945 was broken by the bombing of New York and Philadelphia in the US, Leningrad and Karkov in the Soviet Union and Birmingham, England in late 1946, the war continued with even greater ferocity than before. The new weapons that had been developed by the Third Reich enabled them to hold the Allies at bay for many years until the huge manufacturing ability of the United States began to reassert itself. With the destruction of Aachen and Nuremberg, the spiritual centres of Nazi power were removed and with the introduction of inter-continental bombers and improved tanks and infantry weapons, victory appeared in sight. But even as the huge Allied armies began to press towards the German frontiers, the Nazis last terrible design was put into action.

With the improvements made to the A4 rockets used in 1946, a rain of submarine launched missiles descended on the US and Britain, loaded not only with atomic bombs, but also mutated strains of anthrax, plague and influenza. This barrage drove the US out of the war and they created a new Monroe Doctrine to hide behind, leaving the Old World to its own devices. As a final gesture, they unleashed their own biological and atomic weapons on Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan in an orgy of vengeance and hatred.

Although the war continued in Europe, it was more out of simple survival rather that national pride or for any real advantage to combative nations. Manufacturing was almost non-existent with the destruction of the Ruhr, the British Midlands and the oilfields of Eastern Europe. Even coal mining and farming activities were at a standstill with the loss of millions of workers to atomic blast, radiation poisoning and disease. As supplies of ammunition ran out, there was little or no re-supply. Oil and petrol was a luxury and spare parts for aircraft, vehicles and all the other sinews of war vanished and even simple things such as uniforms were a thing of the past. Outside the static front lines snaking across the landscape like writhing snakes there were nothing but roving band of deserters and partisans living of off what was left of the population and the shrinking areas of arable land. The standing armies had been whittled down to mere specks of what they once were. Many mechanized and armoured units had reverted back to horses (when they weren’t eating them) and divisions were no more than reinforced regiments and many brigades were the size of corporal’s guards. In almost all cases command had devolved to majors and lieutenants – some battalions were even in the charge of sergeants. The total number of official men under arms in the British Army was no more that 30,000 worldwide and perhaps not much more for any other nation. The real number was perhaps nearer half of the official number. The air force and navy were completely defunct and had been, ever since the last fighter and frigate had run out of fuel and the last spare parts had been used. Some units were so mixed that a common lingua-franca had been developed to communicate between the many nationalities. So where did that leave the national armed forces and specifically the Lieutenant?

First, it must be said that the Lieutenant was one of those curious specimens termed a patriot. He passionately believed in England and all that it stood for, its freedoms, institutions and its civilizing effect on other counties. Although these may be now seen as old-fashioned beliefs, they were shared by many of his generation and the events since 1939 had only strengthened these feelings. Although the reasons for remaining in the field as a unit of the British army had largely disappeared, the issue of duty and obedience had not. There was always the feeling that the war would finally end and they would all go home to rebuild and be accepted as heroes and saviors. Unfortunately, by the time that the 1970’s came around, this general belief had been diluted to near invisibility. It was left to a very few dedicated men to hold everything together and inspire and lead in ways that reinforced the general patriotism of their commands. This was made all the more difficult due to the constantly changing news from Britain and the confusing and largely ignored communiqués from GHQ located somewhere around the ruins of Paris.

The ruling clique of Churchill and his cronies had held the country in an iron grip until a cabinet meeting at Downing Street was obliterated during the last major bombing of London in the early ‘50’s. Since then a succession of fringe political parties had taken control though a series of coups, both bloodless and bloody, until some stability had taken hold after the English Socialist Party had wrested control from the Monarchist League in 1956. Within two years, the country had been placed under a draconian dictatorship that was seen as close to the worst excess of the Russian Royalist Uprising of 1953. Work was made compulsory for everyone over the age of 12 and Worker’s Committees were ordered to be setup in all regular army units. As a final blow to any monarchist aspirations and what was seen as a solution to any sedition and resistance, the entire royal family was be disposed of on Ludgate Hill, which had again been turned into a place of public execution.

Due to the influence of one of the mentors of the IngSoc Party (named from his influential work,’1948’), the two children of the King and Queen had been spared and became known as the Princess’s in the Tower. Unfortunately, Eric Blair died of tuberculosis soon after and with his moderating influence gone the Party became infatuated with power and was completely destroyed in the Soviet uprisings of 1962. In the decade since, there had been uncounted changes in the leadership and, in fact, no one really knew from day-to-day who was in charge. What was known however, that Scotland had succeeded from the Union, Wales had its nascent independence movement brutally crushed and a newly re-united Ireland had expelled its Protestant population, who became a new generation of landless refugees unwelcome anywhere. When boatloads of fleeing people attempted to land on the Isle of Man, they were driven off with anti-shipping missiles, flamethrowers and any other weapons that the Manx could lay hands on. Reverting to their Viking heritage, the Manx maintained an uneasy independence from England.

It stills seems incredible that regular army units still maintained a warlike stance against a enemy that seldom showed it’s face and appeared to have given up thoughts of any offensive action. At no time had any officer decided to go back to ‘blighty’ and ‘sort things out’ and most of the time concentrated on just staying alive. Commanding officers came and went with bewildering rapidity and most commanders had little idea of who, if anyone, to report to.
 
^That was pretty damned cool. More would be awesome. May I ask how it relates to scientology, though?

L. Ron Hubbard was a best selling science-fiction author for many years.

I like this thread with it's tying together actual Labour and Conservative Party figures with Orwell's novel.

But.....Oceania as a NK ministate won't work.

Orwell himself made it very clear the rationale for Ingsoc and the perpetual wars with the two other megastates. It was to freeze the pendulum, to ensure that the new High group, established after the nuclear war and revolutions of the fifties could never be overthrown in its turn.

The Party Slogan "War is Peace" defined the fact that perpetual war, in using up the plentiful resources of the industrial age, was preventing them being used to benefit the Middle and Low groups. Without the war, living standards would rise for all and the rule of the Party threatened. So the War and its enemies are real, and the War means Peace for Ingsoc.

There is another reason for the war being between similar Ingsoc-type states. As Goldstein's Book states...only the Thought Police is efficient in Oceania. Any half-way decent industrial state based on rational objective economic and military principles would wipe the floor with Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia. As the Book states, they prop each other up like three sheaves of corn. The Party slogan "Ignorance is Strength" would cut little ice if competing with a modern competitive meritocracy.

So...the three superstates are real, and the war is real.

Using that logic, North Korea and Zimbabwe don't exist. Both countries are hell-holes, but because of mis-management and the fact that no one wants to get involved.
 

Goldstein

Banned
:D Maybe it is...

The problem is that the portrayal of outside events in 1984 can't be trusted... and so we can put practically any interpretation we want on it.

The main reason I don't believe the "Oceania is Britain" theory, is that I do trust Goldstein's Book. Remember that O'Brien claimed to have taken part in its redaction... the Book is an instrument of the Inner Party, born out of their hipocrisy and doublethought... they know how the world really is, so they put it in text to demonize it more easily. If Oceania were only Britain, that would figure in the Book, or even in Goldstein's speeches in the Two Minutes Hate.

I suspect the main reason people have to distrust the "three superstates" situation, is the difficulties around the formation of Oceania. But note that the three revolutions in the three superstates are conciously designed by a cabal of middle class politicians, intellectuals and technicians (as the Book states) who shared the goldsteinist historical interpretation, and wanted to establish their new order and designed the best way to do it. The problem is not how the revolution happens, but how the conditions for that revolution emerge.

My theory, guiding myself only by the book 1984, is that happened:

1:A short and economically destructive nuclear exchange between the Western powers and the USSR, maybe started by the USSR, which stabbed the Western powers in the back after peace promises ("We didn't ought to 'ave trusted 'em. I said so, Ma, dind't I?")

2:A war that continued by conventional means in which:

.China expanded preventively to gain ports, population and resources.

.The USSR conquered Western Europe.

.The war stagnated for years in a maritime front between the Atlantic Ocean and the English Channel, which would explain the maritime vocation of Oceania.

.The allied powers, now only the US and the British Empire, developed a EUesque bloc.

.Most of Latin America fell in anarchy and Oceania, gradually, "pacified" it to gain manpower and resources.

.The war ended in a stalemate, with the world economy recessing during the whole war to a "Fall of Rome" level.

3:Only after that, the Goldsteinist historical interpretation gained stretght all over the world between certain groups, and the before mentioned cabal reunited to design the execution of their plans.
 
Interesetingly in OTL when Mosley tried to make a comeback in the late 40s he described his new movement's ideology as "European Socialism" and of course Ingsoc is short for English Socialism. Am loving this thread btw!
 
I like that with the exception of the "Fall of Rome" scenario re technology levels falling. War spurs on military technology, and that, together with the technology of surveillance and thought control, was all that Ingsoc was concerned with.

The fact that Oceania found itself fighting on a global scale with two utterly uncompromising totalitarian states in a war for survival after a sneak nuclear attack, would also explain the initial imposition of the holistic control of all citizens in total war.

Later, as the war proved unwinnable and also unlosable, the Party cadres would realise the opportunites inherent in the situation for exploitation by the Inner Party.
 
My revision

I just thought that Hubbad's book really could do with a decent rewrite considering what actually happened OTL. Scientology? Nope. Not interested and certainly not a part of my writing. So far I have the makings of perhaps two chapters.
 
Apologies for the lengthy absence. Spot the introduction of our first "Ingsoc" terminology...

From Notes on a National Scheme of Public Works by Sir Oswald Mosley (1933, preface to the 1946 edition)

Following the conflict the reconstruction of our island must begin in earnest. After the last great war our custodians promised the working man - the hero of Flanders and Paschendael - that they had earned "homes fit for heroes". Yet that promise failed to materialise.

Today, almost halfway through our century, we witness a Britain plagued by homelessness and slums. A Britain criss-crossed by a road network of certain antiquity, and a rail network barely improved since the latter days of the Victorian era.

This publications details a strategy for ensuring that we can move forward in terms of the progress of the nation and bring our crippled homeland - the centre of our great oceanic empire - to the forefront of socialist reconstruction.

Labour, as promised in the 1945 General Election manifesto, commit to this reconstruction.

Our leaders have passed legislation to construct a motorway network to complement our ambition of a world-class national railway. Today a man may feel astonished to be able to travel from London to Birmingham by rail in an hour. In ten years time it shall be commonplace. Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield - two hours from the heart of the empire. Glasgow, Edinburgh; just four hours.

Our motorways shall surpass the feats of the Romans and Macadam, and coupled with our plans for the car industry, bring our cities within reach of both the suburbs and affordable car ownership within reach of the working man.

Our network of airfields - a legacy of the war - will be put to use through civil aviation, again linking ourselves with the continent as well as the reaches of our nation hitherunto inaccessible and remote. Indeed the island of Great Britain herself shall be airstrip number one.

New towns shall be constructed to allow us to clear the slums. We shall build communities with their very own victory mansions at the heart of a new England.

Britain pioneered the industrial age. The railways, the macadamised roads and ocean faring. As we enter a new era we shall enter a new industrial age where once again we are the pioneer and a beacon to socialist governance throughout the globe.
 
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