If not for the dominance of Islam would North Africa and the Levant region be viewed as more interconnected to Europe?

Optical_Illusion

Banned
I think we have the problem of it being unknown how much Islam actually had large effects on cultural similarities between Europe and the Islamic sphere. Like do these practices that create the sense of cultural divergence like lower levels of literacy (probably because of lower levels of printing and book production), cousin-marriage, somewhat more female seclusion, more religious law, somewhat more male-biased labor forces and suchlike, actually derive as a result of Islam (or even *an interpretation of Islam*), or are they unrelated (e.g. arise from economic forces or whatnot)?
 

Mitchell Hundred

Optical_Illusion said:
I think we have the problem of it being unknown how much Islam actually had large effects on cultural similarities between Europe and the Islamic sphere. Like do these practices that create the sense of cultural divergence like lower levels of literacy (probably because of lower levels of printing and book production), cousin-marriage, somewhat more female seclusion, more religious law, somewhat more male-biased labor forces and suchlike, actually derive as a result of Islam (or even *an interpretation of Islam*), or are they unrelated (e.g. arise from economic forces or whatnot)?
Click to expand...
It's likely the seclusion that did cause an exacerbation or division in any shared general cultural traits that may have existed pre-Islam in those regions.

Going back to the Roman Empire time where so much of its wealth was arising from the near east mainly Egypt region, did they talk much about the differences in culture, customs and people between those living in Rome vs Alexandria?
 
Last edited:

King Jasper

Yes, North Africans would be seen in the way we look at Southern Europeans. The real thing with a No Islam TL would be the massive dominance of Christianity, since it would be the only major missionary religion. Unless you add a new religion of course.
 

galanx

Nivek said:
Nope, people tend to be very condescending with foreigners, specially when looks far different from themselves, that already happened in Roman era to begin with.
Click to expand...
But enough about those pale-skinned trouser-wearing barbarians to the north....
 
JanWellem

JanWellem

An effect, possibly even more important than the religious one, the Muslim conquest of North Africa had. was the total replacement of Greek and African Romance with Arabic in the subsequent centuries. Had the population on the southern shore of the Mediterranean continued to speak European or closely related languages derived from those, it would've significantly reduced the impression of foreignness compared to OTL's linguistic situation.
 
Last edited:

Paradoxer

Banned
They would probably be looked at as similar to Greeks or some Slavs to Western Europeans if not same at depending on geopolitics.

For example southern Iberian and Morocco could be under a single Christian kingdom and see cultures on both side of straight more as one.

Western North Africa to parts of western Libya you likely see more Latin languages and Berbers that are Catholic so they consider themselves part of western Christendom. Libya is where East and western Christianity meet. Eastern Libya would have more Greek Orthodox and maybe some Coptic Christians. Egypt would still have noticeable Greek Orthodox enclaves especially in Alexandria which continues being major center of Egypt.

Egypt would be kind of “odd ball” between orthodox and Catholic east west divide later on but leans to orthodox bloc due to necessity/pressure/location but not opposed to playing both sides. If Byzantium pisses them off enough they might even welcome and help Nubian Christians take over place if they ever get chance too.

Sicily and Tunis/Carthage coastline will likely share more exchange, culture, and leadership then Sicilians would with northern Italian states in this pod.

The big question is how they perceive sub-Saharan Africans as Christianity and their trade spread south. They likely aren’t considered same but might get more Slavic or “oriental” attachment to them as “other” so less negative as otl especially if many are Christians
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top