Ideas/Help for German Unification TL

@Comissar Bulldog:
The new Germnay will definitely invest in the Mediterrainian to fleet to make sure it can't be blocaded by Italy to easily. The thing is, that Britain controls both Gibraltar and the Suez channel and therefore there is no point to build a big fleet in the Mediterrainean as it can be blocaded quite easily by either the British or the Italians. The German mediterrainean coastline is not very long so closing it down won't be a big problem for the royal navy. In the Baltic and the North sea however, the coastline is long and Britain can hardly blocade all of it. Germany will need to build some ships to be able to defend against Russia but there is no need to get into a naval race against Britaim if Britain is keep neutral or won over as an ally.

I kind of like the idea of Germany (including Austria and its Hungarian/Croatian/...) allys) and Britain and possibly even Spain vs France, Russia and Italy. This way, both Germany and France would be surrounded by enemies and a 'fair' fight in the colonies will take place.
 
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About Galicia:
I really only see three options here:
1. Galicia stays with Austria and becomes a part of the German Empire
2. Galicia becomes part of Hungary.
3. Galicia and Slovacia together form the Independent nation Transcarpathia. It will be ruled by a Habsburg.

I guess a compromise between 1 and 3. Transcarpatia is created, possibly the Chech people of Bohemia will be encouraged to move there, and it will be reigned in a dual Monarvhy with either the King of Austria or the Emperor of Germany (who nigh be the same, I'm not decided on that yet) becoming lord of Transcarpathia.
It can then later be decided whether Transcarpathia will become independent, be partitioned between Hungary and Germany or join the new Germany.
 
I think Either 2 or 3 would be the choices, when Magyars neither would like to juggle poles or loss something they consider part of 'hungary proper' the loss can be resolved with either winning part of the military granze or other border correction in favour of hungary.

Your Compromise will work, Russia will not like poles more independant that other but be pleased they're just other minority in other multination state.

The Chech will not move, just learn german alongside Chech.
 
Yeah, It think I'll do it as planned, Transcarpathia will be a new kingdom ruled by the Austrian king.
I think I'll start writing the timeline soon :)
Tomorrow ill have to ask some more questions about the probable reactions of the other countries though.
 
I'd like to offer two ideas (Which I also intend to develop in a future timeline). Don't know how plausible they may be, but it depends on your POD.

1) The Netherlands and Luxembourg joining the German Empire through a possible crown Union or any other (hopefully non-violent to avod irredentism) methods you can think of.

2) A Jewish State comprised of Yiddish-speaking Ashkenazi Jews who decide to give Russia the middle finger and form a "Republik fun Ihudh" (Yiddish for "Republic of Judah"). May or may not become part of the German Empire.
 
Galicia goes Russian IMO, they would not accept a German Empire without nothing in return, also they would want to prevent Polish separatist from organizing movement from there and to annex Ruthenia and its East Slavic people.
 
Austria will prefer to keep as much of their empire as possible a direct part of their kingdom within the German Empire, so as to increase the number of seats they have. This probably means that all of Bohemia-Moravia, Austria proper, and the italian possessions will be part of the kingdom of Austria. Hungary (incl. Slovenia and Transylvania) will probably be a separate kingdom ruled by a different Habsburg, allied to the German Empire. Croatia (incl. Dalmatia) will be in a similar position, possibly later incorporating Bosnia-Herzegovina.


Why bother? Wouldn't it be simpler to just provide that only the historically German provinces (ie within the border of the German Confederation) should vote in elections to the German Parliament, or, if it was indirectly elected, that only German Deputies in the Austrian Reichsrat should choose Austria's delegates?
 
I'll be waiting for your TL to be ready. I'm sorry that I can't contribute beyond checking this thread but I don't know about the politics of the time.
 
First of all, thank you all lot for participating or checking out this thread. Without readers who help and comment my ideas I wouldn't be able to get my ideas developed this way.

@BulldogCommisar Again, thanx a lot
@GohanLSSJ2 1) I thought about that as well. This TL isn't going to be a pure wank, but I think at some point there was actually a discussion wether Wilhelm II should marry Wilhelmina of Oranje, the only heir to the croen of the Netherlands. This might actually happen in my TL, as a joint Hohenzollern-Habsburg dynasty is probably going to look for a real royalty as a match for their heir.
About Luxembourg I'm not sure, I'll have to think about it. Do you have an idea how it ould happen?
@Gloss I do agree with you that Russia would want something, but I really don't see why the Habsburgs would simply give away a part of their Empire to a foreign power. Also, in OTL Russia accepted the forming of Germany.
@Mikestone8 Possible, to be honest I don't know that much about the parliamentary process of the time, but I think that you can't really have the Italians and Chech minorities not be able to vote. Tht would only increase the unrest.
@Fox-Fire Thank you Foxfire, I'm glad about eceryone who will follow my TL :)
 
Noe some more questions: :D

How do you think the following countries will react to the German Unification which includes Austria and Prussia both?:

1. France
2. Britain
3. Russia
4. Italy
5. the Ottoman Empire
6. Netherlands
7. Belgium
8. Denmark
9. Sweden
10.Swizerland
11.Spain
12. the US

Some of thesse countries might not be especialy interested, if you think that's the case you can simply state that and maybe say what you think the general thoughts would be. Of course, you don't have to give an answer for all those countries right now :D
Thanks a lot for your effort, M
 
1 Opposed, will demand stuff and ally with Russia or Italy to contain it.
2 Opposed, will try to prevent it but can intervene directly.
3 Opposed, will demand compensation or free hand in the Balkans
4 Opposed, will demand Italian clay.
5 Favourable if it helps them.
6-->12 Can´t do much anyway.
 
@Mikestone8 Possible, to be honest I don't know that much about the parliamentary process of the time, but I think that you can't really have the Italians and Chech minorities not be able to vote. Tht would only increase the unrest.


I was thinking in terms of the Austrian draft for the 1863 Congress of Princes.

This envisaged a House of Delegates, chosen by the legislatures of the German States. Where these were bicameral (the usual situation) the elected lower chamber would appoint two-thirds, and the Upper Chamber (usually a House of Lords or similar) one-third. There were to be 302 delegates, with 75 each from Austria and Prussia, and the rest apportioned among the other states. The Old Federal Diet was to continue as a "Senate" of 21, with Austria and Prussia having three votes each, and the other states or groups of states one each. The Executive power was vested in a six member Directorate, with Austria, Prussia and Bavaria as permanent members, the Kingdoms of Hanover, Saxony and Wurttemberg holding the fourth seat in rotation, and the smaller states choosing the other two.

Regarding the Italians, most of these lived outside the boundary of the German Confederation, so presumably wouldn't be entitled to representation there, though a few from the Trentino or Trieste would be if there were a directly elected chamber. A few Czechs or Hungarians might get into an indirectly chosen body, but they would probably be of the more Germanised sort, willing to call themselves "Otto" or "Franz" rather than "Ottokar" or "Ferenc". I suppose an Italian from Lombardy or a Pole from Galicia might be chosen, but only if he was reliably loyal to the Habsburgs.
 
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1) The Netherlands.............joining the German Empire through a possible crown Union or any other (hopefully non-violent to avod irredentism) methods you can think of.
With a POD after 1600, impossible. The Dutch did not consider themselves German anymore and had no intention of joining any Germany. In the Dutch constitution personal unions (besides with Luxemburg) were forbidden to avoid being absorbed by Germany. Basicly Germany has to conquer the Netherlands and (besides the Nazi's) they never had any intention to do so. The entire world, including the Dutch and the Germans did not consider the Dutch to be Germans. If Germany would conquer them, everybody would see it as unprovoked expansionism. All the areas Prussia conquered during the wars of unification could be considered German or would have been a thread to Germany. Since the Netherlands was neither, Germany had left them alone. Trying to conquer the Netherlands would cause more harm than it would give them benefits.
 
I understand that Netherlands would be an incredibly hard thing to do if just for the obsession of thr Dutch of NOT being Germans. But a change of mentality can happen eventually, although it'd need a huge shake up of the Dutch society.

And what about point number 2? Would having a "Juden Staat" where Yiddish is majority language inside the German federation (or even just as a satellite state) work?
 
I understand that Netherlands would be an incredibly hard thing to do if just for the obsession of thr Dutch of NOT being Germans. But a change of mentality can happen eventually, although it'd need a huge shake up of the Dutch society.

And what about point number 2? Would having a "Juden Staat" where Yiddish is majority language inside the German federation (or even just as a satellite state) work?
I doubt it will happen out of nothing, you would need a specific situation where Germany can annex parts of it, but I doubt anyone would accept German Amsterdam, Antwerp or Brussels.

No, German Jews were quite assimilated into German culture for their size, no need of it.
 
1 Opposed, will demand stuff and ally with Russia or Italy to contain it.
2 Opposed, will try to prevent it but can intervene directly.
3 Opposed, will demand compensation or free hand in the Balkans
4 Opposed, will demand Italian clay.
5 Favourable if it helps them.
6-->12 Can´t do much anyway.

2. (Britain) i guess you mean can't? in that case agree, but i think if France or Russia poses a threat to England it might support a Unification to create a counterweight to them. Especially if they should ally.
3. (Russia) agreed, but not sur wether those demands would be met. Russia can't really intervene either, no real casus belli.
4. (Italy) Agreed, demands will probably not be met.
5-12 agreed

With a POD after 1600, impossible. The Dutch did not consider themselves German anymore and had no intention of joining any Germany. In the Dutch constitution personal unions (besides with Luxemburg) were forbidden to avoid being absorbed by Germany. Basicly Germany has to conquer the Netherlands and (besides the Nazi's) they never had any intention to do so. The entire world, including the Dutch and the Germans did not consider the Dutch to be Germans. If Germany would conquer them, everybody would see it as unprovoked expansionism. All the areas Prussia conquered during the wars of unification could be considered German or would have been a thread to Germany. Since the Netherlands was neither, Germany had left them alone. Trying to conquer the Netherlands would cause more harm than it would give them benefits.

I do think myself that it would be incredibly hard to annex/icorporate the Netherlands into a German Empire as the Dutch at that point were just their own nation. The thig you have to remember though, is that in this case we are not talking of a small-German solution (without Austria) as it was in otl in which case Germany was much more homogenous (few minorities, few Catholics, strong Prussian position) than it will be in my TL. The Germany of otl was 'more German' whih means that it would be harder to incorporate other cultures.
A Germany that includes Austrians, Italians, Chechs, more Poles and possibly some more of the Balcan people living in the Habsburg Empire before the Unification will be much more diverse, therefore easier to accept other cultures and for other cultures it would be easier to live there.
Still, it would be very hard but i guess that if there is some event that changes the attitude toward a netherland-ish entry. They could be:
- A royal marriage that is very popular on both sides of the border. You said the Danish constitution prohibited this though, I didn't know that, do you have a link? Thanks.
- A long war in which Germany and Netherlands fight on the same side, possibly protecting the Netherlands against french agression. The Netherlands could get back Belgium (which used to be part of it) as a reward for entering the German Empire.
- Danemark could enter the German Confederation as it nearly did in otl. During the Second Shleswig War, after Denmark lost, its King offered to enter the German Confederation to stop the victors from anexing Schleswig Holstein and protect the countries Unity. In this case, the German Empire would be more of a Germanic Empire which means that cultures which have another language but still te close to german culture could be included. Would kinda be a wank though, which I don't plan on doing.

@Mikestone8 I guess that could work. Thanks for the info.


Can you please give the timeline link?
The timeline ins't out yet, I'll post the link as soon as it is.

@GohanLSSJ2 Hm I'll have to think about that. It's true that the Jews in Germany were at the time included quite well into society, there would be no need for them to split of. But if for example in Russia the progroms get even worde then they did in otl and possibly in other countries too (possibly as a result of a Russo-German war), a lot of them could come pooring West and be too many to be assimilated quickly. In that case, Germany might possibly give them some Russian land to create their own nation, but I'm not sure wether the Christian Empires of Europe would tolerate a non-Christin nation on former-Christian soil. I'm not quite sure how important these religious aspects actually were, does someone have an idea about that?
 
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