I AM NOT MAD [A Radical Enlightened Denmark-Norway]

Zillian

Gone Fishin'
Are we going to see the same marriage? Considering what is coming in the next few decades, if butterflies does not take it away. the ascension of an English Princes as Queen. Which likely won't be scorned, could be a big deal :)

Also wouldher early death be butterflied ?

Yes, this would be the same marriage and her early dead would also be butterflied but this is not the only thing that are butterflied away ;)
 
Chapter 5: Royal Couple

Zillian

Gone Fishin'
Chapter 5: Royal Couple

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Queen Caroline Mathilde of Denmark-Norway, painting in 1767 by Catherine Read

It was hard to be a king when everyone demanded your attention, scheming behind your back and manipulated you while at the same time you had a frail mind. To a point where you wanted to rage and screaming and tearing your hair apart. King Christian VII’s relationship to the administration was clearly showed on his most famous painting called “The Wigs”

The painting showed a group of deadly decadent aristocrats with animal bodies and overly large wigs which encase their heads. One had a body of an obese pig to represent his weight, another had a body of fox to show his cunning skill, a third had a body of stork referenced to his lanky figure and so on. They were surrounding by furniture of gold and the tables was overloaded with exotic foods and wine in an endless stream. The aristocrats pretended to like each other but they all had a dagger behind their back, ready to backstab each other. The king himself stood in one forgotten and dark corner with a cheap crown on his head and screaming and holding his ears but all just ignored him.

Time to time, the king escaped from the court life, and it was common to see him just sit in the middle of the Copenhagen street and painting something and sometimes he was surrounding by men of creative minds and Enlighted philosophers. No matter what the king think, the administration genuinely had the best interest in keeping Christian VII healthy to a point where they arranged a marriage between the king and a British princess – believed a marriage would lead to an improvement in his mental problems.

Caroline Mathilde was by birth a Princess of Great Britain, member of the House of Hanover and sister to King George III of Great Britain and Ireland. She was born in 1751 and had whole her life been preparing to be marrying away to a prince or a king and an exotic country and to love and honour her husband unconditionally. He was told her first cousin Christian VII and king of Denmark-Norway was charming, interested in art and literature, and loving acting.

She was marrying on 1 October 1766 at a prosecution and had naively through she had found the prefect prince on the white horse and the official wedding ceremony took place on 8 November 1766 in the Royal Chapel at Christiansborg Palace in Copenhagen. She was crowned as Queen of Denmark-Norway on 1 May 1767.

It came therefor as a surprise when she discovered her new husband was quite mad. Despite the king was mentally ill, he was still strong in his mind and very friendly towards his new wife. The king had on their official wedding night, in their bedchamber, told her about his mental illness and he was aware of it.

After the wedding night, the new queen was more or less ignored and the king returned to his lifestyle but instead to isolate herself, Caroline Mathilde had made it to hers life mission to support her kind and sick husband. Soon the young queen became a centrepiece in the court life and the next painting of the Danish court life had a brighter tone.

The painting still showed the aristocrats with a decadent lifestyle and too big wigs but this time, both the King and Queen was placed in the middle in a slow dance enclosed by a golden aura and looked at each other with a loving smile.

A healthy boy was born at Christiansborg Palace in Copenhagen on 28 January 1768 between 22 and 23 in the evening. Two days later, on 30 January of the same year, he was baptised at Christiansborg Palace by Ludvig Harboe, Bishop of Zealand and according to tradition, he was named Frederick. As the eldest son of King Christian VII, he automatically became Crown Prince at birth. His godparents were his father, his step-grandmother dowager Queen Juliana Maria and his half-uncle hereditary Prince Frederick.

King Christian VII decided to embark a voyage aboard on May 6, 1768. Upon his tutor and Prime Minister’s recommendation and his wife’s demand, both the Queen and the Crown Prince joined him together with 70 followers including his tutor Francois Reverdil, his friend businessman Heinrich Carl von Schimmelmann and his prime minister J.H.E Bernstorff.

The acting Court Physician Hans Piper should have joined the voyage, but he was too old to travel, so instead J.H.E. Bernstorff joined the king to keeping an eye on him and showing a good picture on the trip to the European’s leading royal houses. As the Royal Couple and their follower was at Altona, near Hamburg, some aristocrats of a liberal mind suggest the King to hire Doctor Johann Friedrich Struensee as a replacement for Hans Piper, in a hope to control the king through the doctor.

J.H.E. Bernstorff had not approved King Christian VII’s liberal mind and simply refused to hire Struensee, claimed the king was not sick enough to being allowed to have his mind corrupted with radical thinking.

Voyage continued without the radical doctor and soon they arrived at Holland to witness the plough from China and the Dutch method of land reclamation. Many landowners showed an interest in the Dutch agriculture, including Bernstorff and Schimmelmann, and King Christian VII declared his intents to hire Dutch experts to advise him in his agricultural reforms.

When the king’s tour in Holland ended, they crossed the English Channel to visit his brother-in-law and first cousin King George III of Great Britain and Ireland.
 
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Chapter 6: King George III

Zillian

Gone Fishin'
Chapter 6: King George III
384px-Allan_Ramsay_-_King_George_III_in_coronation_robes_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

King George III of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, painting in 1765 by Allan Ramsay

As Grandchild of King George II and brother-in-law, King Christian VII had a close association with England, and yet the British King George III was still nervous about the prospect of having his notorious Danish cousin on visit. It was not because the cousin had a mental illness but because he surely knew one of his reason for the visit. A diplomatic dance dating back to 1468

The Pawning issues

Shetland and Orkney had been a thorn in the side of any British or Scottish administration ever since 1468 when Christian I of Kalmarunion pledge the isles to James III of Scotland as a dowry with a cause in the contact which gave Christian or his successors the right to pay the isles back at a fixed sum of 210 kg of gold or 2,310 kg of silver and the isles was to be govern under the Udal law and not the Scottish law. The pawning had no time limit and had never been revoked or legally challenged and both Scottish and British monarchs kept ignored Danes attempt to redeem the isles.

The effect of the 1468/69 dowry arrangements meant that Shetland and Orkney were held in trust by the Scottish Crown until redeemed. In 1603 this duty passed to the British Crown with the Union of the Crowns. The pawning was an international treaty which could not be altered without the agreement of both sides and Denmark-Norway had always protested that sovereignty was never surrendered to Scotland.

Under the Udal law, there was no concept of ultimate ownership by the Crown and the islands were pawned in that condition. So, King James III was holding in trust a property in which he could never claim ownership, because the pawning had no time limit and because, under udal, law ultimate ownership by the Crown didn’t exist and therefore could not have been transferred by king Christian I.

Ultimately it means the earldom of Orkney and Shetland was legally subject to the Danish-Norwegian crown and had never been a subject to the Scottish crown and the pawning agreement could only confer a kind of temporary sovereignty for administration purpose until the pawning was redeemed.

In 1471, King James annexed the earldom of Orkney and Shetland to Scotland and impose the Scottish feudal law upon the islands. Contrary to the conditions of the pawning arrangement, the peasants were not allowed to retain the same right of possession over their own land like Iceland, Faeroe Islands and Norway had. During this time, the islands were in Scottish possession, they eradicated the Norwegian culture and ever go so far as to paying the peasants to speak Scottish in the 18th century.

In 1667 the Peace and Treaty of Breda confirmed that the pawning agreement of the islands had not been and cannot be changed, and the parties had agreed to postpone a discussion of the agreement.

King Charles II attempted to remedy the pawned agreement in 1669 to which the two islands was removed from the jurisdiction of the Scottish Parliament and place it firmly in the care of the Crown as Crown Dependencies, restoring the legal situation as it was in 1468/1469. He clearly understood that the islands were his personal responsibility and the Scottish annexation of the islands was illegal.

And yet, only 38 years later, the terms of the 1669 Act were directly contravened in the 1707 Act of Union, from which Shetland and Orkney emerge magically as countries of Scotland and this had been the official fiction ever since.

Therefor the annexation of the islands through the 1707 Act of Union was illegal from the Danish point of view.

So of this reason, the pawning agreement was deeply embarrassing to King George III and his administration and han tried to drop the issues like a hot potato when his Danish cousin visited England. He kept his cousin very busy with tours in English farms in Norfolk and visited a factory outside of Rotherham which produced their version of the Dutch improved Chinese plough as well other manufacturers and lastly tours in the university of Oxford and Cambridge. Finally he arranged a beautiful masquerade ball in honour of the host.

Each time Christian VII attempted to pick the pawning issues up, George III changed the subject in haste. Before they knew it, the visit had ended and Christian VII and his followers had left England to continue his European voyage.

[Note1] Belive it or not but the pawning arrangement as outline in this chapter exist and is a complex issue. If you have trouble with follow me, try to look at http://www.udallaw.com/ which I have copied most text from because myself I have trouble with understanding it as well. Yes, you hear me right – the Orkney and Shetland had been a hot potato to this day today. Say if Scotland vote its independent in 2014, they would be forced to hand over the islands to the kingdom of Denmark and Norway because both Queen Margrethe II and King Harald V will surely pass their share claim on it. And the cost? Only 210 kg of gold - a very small part of Danish National Gold on 32.000 tons
 
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Getting rid of Struensee is an easy matter but of course important. Thus having removed any foreign able to gain power by way of the Queen is a serious move - there was a series on Danish television of some Queens among these Caroline Mathilde emphasizing her as a willfull person trying to portrait herself as powerful and influential; with a slightly more sane King she should in some way be able to get to run stuff more her way.
Kongelige eskapader - der ændrede danmarkshistorien season I available on dr.dk.
 
Chapter 7: An Enlightened Voyage

Zillian

Gone Fishin'
Chapter 7: An Enlightened Voyage
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Philosopher Français-Marie Arouet “Voltaire”, painting in 1724 by Nicolas de Largillière

The royal couple arrived at France and King Christian VII was keenly interested in the French philosophy of the time, and the French Baron C.H. von Gleichen arranged an audience for 18 of the leading philosophers and scientists of the time. He met them in his lodging with his wife Caroline Mathilde playing as host on 20 November 1768 and began the audience by greeting each one and comment on his works or reputation. Then he took another round and spook extra with Denis Diderot and Jean le Rond d’Alembert, among others.

Diderot and d’Alembert were famous for their encyclopaedia work and had created a movement to promoting the advancement of science and secular thought and supported tolerance, rationality, and open-mindedness of the enlightenment. King Christian VII promised to support the publication of the encyclopaedia and bought several copies to his personal library. During the one-month stay in France, he visited several times theatres, local attractions and leading producers of porcelain, tapestries and crafts of the time. On 3 December, King Christian VII visited three academies; Académie française, Académie des inscriptions et belles lettres and Académie des sciences.

Soon the royal couple continued their voyage and arrived at Ferney in France near Geneva to visit the philosopher Voltaire who had been one of King Christian VII’s role model. During the stay, the philosopher and King Christian VIII touched on many subjects such as Christianity, Confucianism and slavery. At one point, King Christian VIII’s second role model, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, came by to join the debate and touched on human nature, education and child rearing.

Voltaire supported a form of enlightened absolutism with traits of meritocracy and believed it was the only real way for society to advance. He praised Confucian rationalism as an alternative to Christian dogma, argued that the Chinese had perfected moral science and advocating an economic and political system modelled after that of Chinese.

As Queen Caroline Mathilde came from a land, where it was governed by a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system, she quickly discovered how powerful she had become in a land where all power lay within the king. Since Christian VII was saner thank to the educating method developed by Rousseau, she found she had an intellect connection with her husband and created a closer relationship with him and formed a partnership.

Of this reason she managed to join the European voyage and had been lucky enough to meet Rousseau, her own role model in child rearing. Rousseau came with pointers which went the opposite way to almost all traditional upbringing methods and among other advocated the mothers should breastfeed their own children. He gave the young Queen his book “Emile, or On Education” but stressed her not to take the teaching from the book literally and the children needed to be under supervision. He said to the Queen, his goal with the book ‘Emile’ was not to learn how to raise children to become good princes but to bring about the natural human whom the court life had destroyed with its empty phrases and superficial finery.

The royal couple left France with new revisionary ideas. Christian VIII with version about create a meritocracy state with him in top and Caroline Mathilde with a version for a new education model for the Danish children. They returned home in early 1769 with a light pregnant Queen.

A great happiness and a great for grief arrived at Denmark with the birth of a healthy girl born to the royal couple on 7. August 1769 and a smallpox epidemic in autumn 1769. The pale rider claimed the life of the infant Crown Prince Frederik on 20 May 1770.

The dead of Crown Prince Frederik hit the royal couple hard and only their daughter Louise Augusta kept them together. King Christian VII fell into a deep depression, but her wife managed to pull him up of the abyss before his madness could take over him. His second most famous painting known as ‘all are equal’ was from this period. The painting had a dark background with gloomy houses and several peasants, bishop, merchant and the king lay in front lifeless surrounding by skeletons and the pale rider in the middle.

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‘All are equal’ by Christian VII, painted in 1770

The king declared all humans were equal in the eye of the god no matter yours status or wealth and both Serfdom and slavery within the Danish-Norwegian realm shall be ended. King Christian VII issued the ‘Regulation on the Negro Trade’ on 16. March 1771, which prohibited the trade of slaves and the bill passed 17 days later. Denmark-Norway thus became the first country in Europe to prohibit trade in slaves.

Although a ban on trafficking in slaves was decided in 1771, the ban was not to enter into force until 1782 on the recommendation of the finance minister and businessman Henrich Carl von Schimmelmann who said it was important to provide sufficient labour on the plantations before the regulation could be passed. The slaves were now to provide better living conditions and were allowed to live together in marriage-like conditions, thus creating a class of self-recruiting slaves in the Danish colonies. The regulation was therefor adopted with a transitional period of ten years.

The agricultural commission promised to present its report on the Danish-Norwegian agriculture and how to improve it next year.

By Royal Resolution, the Royal Commission on the Land Settlement, popularly known as the “Grand Land Commission” was set up in 1769 to investigate and propose several improvement in the right and duties of the peasants in Denmark. The commission consisted of representatives of the privy council, landowners, legal experts and military. For several years, the commission had been a central place for the agricultural debate.

The commission reached to a conclusion and present its report to King Christian VII and the privy council in 1772 with a proposal to the reorganisation of the Danish agriculture in four areas:

· Abolition of the village community

· Improving the condition of peasantry and serfdom

· Creation of a large rural middle-class

With the abolition of the village community, the field structure was to be restructured by merge smaller farms into large ones so each peasants would have one total piece of land rather a number of scattered plots. In this way, each individual peasants became independent and could make decisions about cultivation of the land himself according to the market price.

As it had been noted, the serfdom and stavnsbånd was a poor solution and need to be ended. The commission believed, if they end the stavnsbånd and an abolition of serfdom would lead the peasant and hirelings to find estate with good conditions and the landowner therefor had to offer favourable conditions for retaining and attracting labour. An increasing competition over the labour force would lead to an increasing in production.

The third aspect of the proposal land reform deals with the transition from serfdom to freemen. One of the goals were to create a free peasantry, which itself owned the land. The landowner would distribute their property and sell the land to the freeman leading to a large rural middle-class

The suggested land reforms were approved by King Christian VII and most of the privy council, and the reforms were passed on 20 April 1772 with a gradual abolition of the village community and transit from serfdom to freemen on fifty years.



[Note1] Rousseau's upbringing method is not that bad and is in fact what our modern pedagogy is based on. The problem with the method was in that Struensee toke his teaching literally in the most extreme sense with almost fatal consequences for the Crown Prince.

[Note2] A smallpox epidemic did happen but without the present of the infamous dictator J.F. Struensee who had inoculate the crown prince against the disease, leading to his dead. I believe it was the only good thing, Struensee had done to Denmark.
 
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Zillian

Gone Fishin'
As it chapter about agriculture reforms was too short, I decided to merge it into chapter 7.
Part of the updating chapter 7 can also be read her:
By Royal Resolution, the Royal Commission on the Land Settlement, popularly known as the “Grand Land Commission” was set up in 1769 to investigate and propose several improvement in the right and duties of the peasants in Denmark. The commission consisted of representatives of the privy council, landowners, legal experts and military. For several years, the commission had been a central place for the agricultural debate.

The commission reached to a conclusion and present its report to King Christian VII and the privy council in 1772 with a proposal to the reorganisation of the Danish agriculture in four areas:

· Abolition of the village community

· Improving the condition of peasantry and serfdom

· Creation of a large rural middle-class

With the abolition of the village community, the field structure was to be restructured by merge smaller farms into large ones so each peasants would have one total piece of land rather a number of scattered plots. In this way, each individual peasants became independent and could make decisions about cultivation of the land himself according to the market price.

As it had been noted, the serfdom and stavnsbånd was a poor solution and need to be ended. The commission believed, if they end the stavnsbånd and an abolition of serfdom would lead the peasant and hirelings to find estate with good conditions and the landowner therefor had to offer favourable conditions for retaining and attracting labour. An increasing competition over the labour force would lead to an increasing in production.

The third aspect of the proposal land reform deals with the transition from serfdom to freemen. One of the goals were to create a free peasantry, which itself owned the land. The landowner would distribute their property and sell the land to the freeman leading to a large rural middle-class

The suggested land reforms were approved by King Christian VII and most of the privy council, and the reforms were passed on 20 April 1772 with a gradual abolition of the village community and transit from serfdom to freemen on fifty years.

The next three chapter will be about military reforms, foreign affairs and then finally the American revolution
 
Chapter 8: Claude-Louis de Saint-Germain

Zillian

Gone Fishin'
Chapter 8: Claude-Louis de Saint-Germain
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Claude-Louis de Saint-Germain, painted in 1777 by Jean Joseph Taillasson

Claude-Louis de Saint-Germain was a French general and veteran of the Seven Years’ War where he distinguished himself on several occasions as a tried army commander and later hired by the former King Frederik VI as his new Feld Marshall in 1761. In mid-March of 1762, he was given command of the Army in the Duchy of Holstein-Gottorp as Denmark was about to enter a war against Russia.

As Duke of Holstein-Gottorp, Tsar Peter III of Russia planned an extremely unpopular war against Denmark in an attempt to restore parts of Schleswig to his Duchy, but before a war was declared he was removed from power by Catherine the Great and he was forced to sign his abdication. In his preparation in the war against Peter III’s force, Saint-Germain noted how uncooperative the Danish army was, lacking all field institutions. Furthermore it was poorly trained, organised and commanded with its shortcomings and flaws clear to all.

Despite his inexperience as an army organiser, Saint-Germain suggested Frederik VI to reform the Danish army and updating it to the modern standard of that time and he was tasked with this, but he was unpopular in the Danish administration. He wanted to simplify everything, to cut everything down and not to encounter obstacles. The army resisted him for budget cutting and dismissing of officers while the landowner complained they had to prove more manpower to the army. Many found that the army, which was in a state of transition, was more costly and less capable than before and ever the rank and filed soldiers had difficulty understanding that the reforms had their best interests in mind. Saint-Germain could not always overcome this opposition, but he could impose his will as long as King Frederik VI lived.

This ended with the king’s dead in 14 January 1766 and in the power vacuum, both military and landowner attempted to pressure the new king to fire Saint-Germain but lucky it backfired, and King Christian VII allowed him to reform the army to his desire. Having taught the lesson, he entered the Danish politic and court intriguer, offer a compromise to military and landowner as well sat in the agricultural commission and came up with a new model of conscription.

As per the change in the monarchy, the Danish army was organised into 1 Royal Guard and 13 Infantry Regiments totalling just under 19,000 infantry. Each infantry regiment then consisting by 2 grenadier companies and 12 musketeer companies divided into two battalions and some few regiments have 1 grenadier company and 1 jaeger company. Each companies consisting of 120 men. The cavalry was also organised into 7 Cuirassier Regiment, 4 Dragoon Regiments and 1 Hussar Regiment. Each regiment was divided into 5 squadron of 146 men, with the exception of the hussars which only had 5 squadron of 120 men, total of 8,400 men. Finally 1 Artillery Corps divided into 3 battalions with 6 companies and 1 mining company each and 1 Engineering Corps.

Other parts of the Military reform of 3 August 1763 includes:

· Abolition of natural economy in the form of bread, straw, oats etc for the regiments

· Implementation of regiment economy and general strengthening of regiment commanders

· The garrison regiment and the grenadier crops closing down

· Abolition of the Land Militia, after which each company should consist of both enlist and conscript

· Lowering the number of fortresses but strengthening the preserved ones.

Denmark’s most important fortress were at Citadel Frederikshavn (Copenhagen), Kornborg Castle (Helsingør), Rendsborg Castle (Eider), Glückstadt Castle (Lower Elbe) and 7 fortress along the Norwegian coast.

Claude-Louis de Saint-Germain believed the strength of the army must be proportionate to the financial ability of the Danish state, thus a small orderly and well-groomed army was more worth than a large and loosely composed army. A good officer corps was the most important condition for having a good army, one must not have too many generals and promotion to higher positions must be happen by merit. The junior officers must be paid decent and solely made up of natives. Denmark would be best defended by its own children and thus a large part of the army must be by Danish descent, properly trained with a strictly discipline. They must be proving with proper quarters, having good conditions, good pension and enough payment to could live as soldiers. Neglect and abuse on the part of the commanding officers would be punished with dismissal.

The foot soldiers were the most important weapon, thus an army of 24,000 men must made by 20,000 infantry, 4,000 cavalry with 30 light and 40 heavy guns. The artillery should be assembled into a corps under a common command, as are the engineers. Light trooper should be formed and proved with training and hospital services. The administrative division of the army should likewise coincide with the tactical organisation.

Saint-Germain’s military reforms were considered very advanced compared to rest of Europe with a professional trained army consisted by natives and a corps of skilled and educated officers. An army of the future.

With the Military reform of 1763 put to side, he came with a new proposal for a second military reform. Saint-Germain lay his dream for a universal conscripted national army to side as he doesn’t think Denmark had a sufficiently large population base to be able to prove such an army and the landowners was against such an idea. Instead he nationalised the army in other areas:

· Danish as command language in the Army

· Only soldiers with Danish-Norwegian citizenship can become officers

· Standardisation of military uniforms

· Abolition of harsh and physical punishment

· Creation of new military schools

As Denmark already had the Royal Danish Army Cadet School (created in 1713) and the Royal Danish Navy Cadet School (created in 1701), Saint-Germain desired to establishing an education institution for the officers and of this reason the Royal Danish Military Academy was open in 19 February 1768 with the two cadet schools organised under it. The second military reform passed in 23 July 1769 when King Christian VII returned from his voyage aboard. The Royal Danish Artillery Cadet School was founded in 2 August 1772 to educating upcoming artillery and engineer officers. The Royal Danish Cavalry School was also founded in 4 January 1773 together with the Royal Veterinary and Agricultural College.

When the agricultural commission its conclusion and passed the land reform in 20 April 1772 and the abolition of stavnsbånd, Saint-Germain could finally pass the Act of Universal Conscription where every male within the realm was required to contribute with his person to the defence of Denmark on 27 September 1772. He predicted the Danish army would reach the ideal size of 108,000 men within twenty to thirty years.

As the first in Europe, Denmark have a universal conscripted national army
 

Zillian

Gone Fishin'
The 1st Polish Partition, Denmark are unlikely to react differently, some better diplomacy could use this opportunity to get a better deal over the Gottorp-Oldenburg trade

Consider that Johann Hartwig Ernst von Bernstorff was Danish Prime Minister uninterrupted since 1766 and his nephew Andreas Peter Bernstorff replacing him upon his dead in 1772 and then stay uninterrupted as Prime Minister until his dead in 1797, how would Denmark getting a better deal over the Gottorp-Oldenburg trade? I can't find some useful information about the Danish-Russian alliance and this trade besides some lines in Wikipedia.

I am planning to allowing Denmark to invade and conquer Skånelandene without a involvement from Britain and Prussia in the Danish-Swedish war of 1788-1789
 
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Consider that Johann Hartwig Ernst von Bernstorff was Danish Prime Minister uninterrupted since 1766 and his nephew Andreas Peter Bernstorff replacing him upon his dead in 1772 and then stay uninterrupted as Prime Minister until his dead in 1797, how would Denmark getting a better deal over the Gottorp-Oldenburg trade? I can't find some useful information about the Danish-Russian alliance and this trade besides some lines in Wikipedia.

I am planning to allowing Denmark to invade and conquer Skånelandene without a involvement from Britain and Prussia in the Danish-Swedish war of 1788-1789

Yes these two are pretty connected. My general thought is that with the Christian VII being more active and having better support, the treaty may be a little different.

In OTL there was three parts:

Trading the duchy of Gottorp-Holstein for the counties of Oldenburg and Delmenholst.
Paying a sizable indemnity (can't think the number but I think it 200 or 250.000 Rigdaler)
Military alliance with Russia against Sweden.

Denmark de facto became a Russian vassal, and Russia kept its right to veto succession in Schleswig-Holstein (if the main line died out).

With more stable rule in Denmark and stronger military reforms, I expect the treaty would move somewhat to Danish benefits. Especially because Russia also wanted the deal.

I would look into a meeting between Catherina and Christian VII, where Denmark support the partition of Poland against some improved condition.

Either Denmark keep the two countries or they gain the principality of Lübeck (whose prince the Russians raised to duke of Oldenburg in OTL).
In that case the indemnity are somewhat bigger.
Still a anti-Swedish alliance.
Russia recognise Schleswig-Holstein as undividable part of Denmark (if this treaty are part of Polish Partition, they get Prussia and Austria on board too, and the duchies are not just de facto Danish but also de jura).

The last part are the most important part, it's worth giving up keeping Oldenburg. As it would allow the Danish king to extend the land reforms to Holstein and would unite Denmark into a unitarian state from the Elbe to North Cape.


The military alliance against Sweden are important, as it allow Denmark to enter the Russian War with Sweden and this being more agressive.

I would say early goal of the Danes would be Swedish Pomerania and Bohuslaan.

But as the French Revolution hit, the goal changes with these new goal in the order of importance for Denmark.

Scania and Blekinge
Bohuslaan
Halland
Swedish Pomerania
Jaemtland
Gotland
Lapland

Denmark are unlikely to gain it all, but Scania and Blekinge alone would be a major victory.

With the French Revolution everyone will be busy focusing on it, that Denmark can get away with far more. But to force Sweden to the negotition table I would suggest a Danish naval landing at Stockholm.
 
Chapter 9: Catherine the Great

Zillian

Gone Fishin'
Chapter 9: Catherine the Great
555px-Catherine_II_of_Russia_by_Vigilius_Eriksen_%281771%2C_Kopenhagen%29.jpg

Catherine the Great in Life Guard Uniform, painting in 1771 by Vigilius Eirksen

As King Christian VII’s Prime Minister, Johann Hartwig Ernst von Bernstorff was a very busy man. Besides supervise the privy council and keeping his sovereign’s madness in check, the King desired to pursue an anti-Swedish alliance with Russia, his dream of a unitarian state reaching from Elbe to North Cape and an expansion of the Danish colonial empire. On 18 February 1772, J.H.E. Bernstorff died in an age of 59 and his prime minister post was taken over by his nephew Andreas Peter Bernstorff, where he continued his uncle’s foreign politics after the king’s wish.

The most important foreign politic in the King Christian VII’s early reign was however to solve the Gottorp Question.

Parts of Duchy of Holstein-Gottorp had been in dispute with the House of Holstein-Gottorp who in 1762 was the Tsar Peter III of Russia. Fortunately his wife Catherine the Great had disposed Peter II before Denmark and Russia went to war. Both sovereigns desired to solve the Gottorp question by diplomatic means. A treaty of friendship and was signed in 1765 and Denmark was obliged to increasing the Danish fleet supporting by materials from Russia. In an attempt to solve the Holstein-Gottorp question, a preliminary treaty was drafted up in 1767 to make a land exchange which Russia would would trade the Duchy of Holstein-Gottorp for the countries of Oldenburg and Delmenholst in return for a sizeable indemnity and a military alliance against Sweden.

Once King Christian VII returned home from his voyage aboard, he and his prime minister Bernstorff went to Sankt Petersburg in 1769 to negotiated with Catherine the Great. At that time, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was a protectorate of the Russian Empire in a state of rebellion and control of Poland was central to Catherine’s diplomatic and military strategies with an end goal to partition the commonwealth between Russian Empire, Kingdom of Prussia and the Archduchy of Austria. Therefor Catherine the Great suggested the Danish king to support the Russian partition of Poland against some improve condition which Christian VII agreed. The drafted treaty of 1770 stated Denmark will also keeping the principality of Lübeck and a Russian recognition of Schleswig-Holstein as an undividable part of Denmark in return for an increasing in the indemnity and Danish support in the partition of Poland.

The kidnap of the Polish-Lithuanian king Poniatowski by the rebels within the commonwealth on November 3, 1771 gave its neighbour a pretext to showcase “Polish anarchy” and the need to step in and “save” the country and its citizen. On February 19, 1772, the agreement of partition of the commonwealth was signed in Vienna between Kingdom of Prussia, Archduchy of Austria and Russian Empire. This gave both Russia and Denmark a cause to bring their Gottorp Question on the table as they desire to have a recognition of their arrangement from the princes within the Holy Roman Empire and both Kingdom of Prussia and Habsburg Monarchy was also the Prince-Elector of Brandenburg and the German-Roman Emperor.

On 5 August 1772, the three parties signed the treaty on their respective territorial gains at the commonwealth’s expense, while both Prussia and Austria recognition Schleswig-Holstein as an undividable part of Denmark and Austria as German-Roman emperor approved both the merging of Oldenburg land and evalicate to duchy. The treaty was ratified by its signatories on 22 September 1772 in Vienna.

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The Treaty of Vienna 1772 in general:

Polish Partition part

· Polish Prussia cedes to Kingdom of Prussia

· Galicia cedes to Archduchy of Austria

· Part of Lithuania cedes to Russian Empire

Gottorp Question part

· Russian Tsar Paul renounce House of Gottorp-Romanov’s claim on Schleswig-Holstein

· The ducal lands in Holstein transfer to King Christian VII of Denmark-Norway

· The Principality of Lübeck transfer to King Christian VII of Denmark-Norway

· The County of Oldenburg and County Delmenholst transfer to Tsar Paul

· Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II approving the merging of the Oldenburg lands

· Emperor Joseph II approving the elevating of the Oldenburg lands to Duchy

· Both Russia, Prussia and Austria recognise Schleswig-Holstein as undividable part of Denmark

· Denmark pays a sizeable indemnity to Russia

The Gottorp Question was not the only foreign affairs Bernstorff and his nephew had entered. In the mid-1700s Danish-Norwegian trade in the Mediterranean had expanded and in order to protect their business against piracy, Denmark-Norway had secured a peace deal with the states of Barbary Coast, involving an annual tribute payment to the individual rulers of those states. In 1766, Baba Mohammed ben-Osman became a regent for Algeria. He demanded that the annual payment should be increasing, and he should receive new gifts. Denmark-Norway refused his demands and shortly after, Algerian prates hijacked three Danish-Norwegian ships and sold the crew into slavery.

The Barbary State of Algeria should have taught a lesson, and Denmark threatened to bomb the capital of Algiers if the Algerians did not agree to a new peace deal on Danish terms, but the barbary state was not intimidated. As the army reforms of Saint-Germain had also spilt over to navy together with new ship of lines built with help of materials from Russia and armed with mortars. A task force sailed from Copenhagen in 16 May 1770 and put Algiers in a blockade and bombarding it for several days until Baba Mohammed gave up. All captured sailors were released, payment of reparations and forbidding from raiding ships sailing under Danish flag. The reparations was used to pay Russia
 
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I will expect the Ritterschaft of Schleswig and Holstein to yell at the new order in the Duchies. All against the 1460 Ribe Constitution! And in need of lots of new legislation for the Duchies which had been run by the German Chancellory.

The Planters of the West Indies were pissed off by the abolition of slavetrade and later slavery. Don't see them not oppose such moves here.

Why buy ships in Russia when Denmark-Norway is perfectly capable of building seaworthy ships on her own? Even RN like theirs post 1807!

Scania - as early as 1660 the British and Dutch had been forcing Denmark and Sweden to their whims so as neighter would become too powerfull and able to control both sides of the Sound. I don't see them not trying to do so again. Or France in 1679. Britain and Dutch in 1700 and the British by 1720 and once again by 1788.

If you want some detailed reading on the period I´d recommend Dansk Udenrigspolitiks Historie bind 2 - revanche og neutralitet 1648-1814. ;)
 

Zillian

Gone Fishin'
I will expect the Ritterschaft of Schleswig and Holstein to yell at the new order in the Duchies. All against the 1460 Ribe Constitution! And in need of lots of new legislation for the Duchies which had been run by the German Chancellory.

You learn some new everyday. Thank for the useful information. Yes, it WOULD be some unrest in Christian VII's new radical politics. Those would be addressed at a later chapter.
I read up on this Ribe Treaty and it seems the treaty had been broken over and over again and then forgotten by 1772. What do you mean with German Chancellory

The Planters of the West Indies were pissed off by the abolition of slavetrade and later slavery. Don't see them not oppose such moves here.

Like above, it would also be addressed in the next Family Schimmelmann chapter about the situtation in the Virgin Islands colony

Why buy ships in Russia when Denmark-Norway is perfectly capable of building seaworthy ships on her own? Even RN like theirs post 1807!

I am well aware Denmark-Norway is capable of building ships but an source said they bougt some from Russia as I understand it.
Imellem Rusland og Danmark foregik der i 1769 forhandlinger, der ville have medført, at Danmark fik en flådestørrelse på 60 linieskibe
https://www.krigsvidenskab.dk/claud...overgangen-til-en-national-vaernepligtig-haer

Scania - as early as 1660 the British and Dutch had been forcing Denmark and Sweden to their whims so as neighter would become too powerfull and able to control both sides of the Sound. I don't see them not trying to do so again. Or France in 1679. Britain and Dutch in 1700 and the British by 1720 and once again by 1788.

I will look at it but I know @Thande had wrote a timeline in his Look to the West timeline where Denmark-Norway conquered Skåne from Sweden in 1788. I used his example as an inspiration but I don't know why England didn't intervene in his ATL war between Denmark and Sweden

If you want some detailed reading on the period I´d recommend Dansk Udenrigspolitiks Historie bind 2 - revanche og neutralitet 1648-1814.

Thank for suggestion. I will look at it - lucky my nearby library have a copy of this book. Do I need bind 3, Fra Helstaten to Nationalstaten as well?
 
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I will expect the Ritterschaft of Schleswig and Holstein to yell at the new order in the Duchies. All against the 1460 Ribe Constitution! And in need of lots of new legislation for the Duchies which had been run by the German Chancellory.

Pretty likely, but they have lost their main card to play against the Danish crown the German diet. If they can't complain to Regensburg and Vienna anymore, the Danish government can run them over at will. It's pretty much a repeat of the coup in 1660, just in the duchies this time.

Scania - as early as 1660 the British and Dutch had been forcing Denmark and Sweden to their whims so as neighter would become too powerfull and able to control both sides of the Sound. I don't see them not trying to do so again. Or France in 1679. Britain and Dutch in 1700 and the British by 1720 and once again by 1788.

I personally see it simply being a opportunistic annexation, in the chaos of the French Revolution. With the Dutch and French out of the game, it's UK which are the problem, but honestly with increase in Danish army size and a likely naval increase following, a good relationship between the two countries, while UK also being busy elsewhere. I could see UK deciding to simply accept it as a fait accompli if Denmark pull a fast one. Russian in OTL de facto created Russian control over the Baltic with the alliance with Denmark, a stronger Denmark would be more likely to break out of that allliance, putting the rising Russia in a weaker position in the Baltic.
 
You learn some new everyday. Thank for the useful information. Yes, it WOULD be some unrest in Christian VII's new radical politics. Those would be addressed at a later chapter.
I read up on this Ribe Treaty and it seems the treaty had been broken over and over again and then forgotten by 1772. What do you mean with German Chancellory

I know the Ribe Treaty really did gain momentum by 1848 but somebody might like to pull it out of the closet (and BTW not everything should happen at a kings whim)
German Chancellory - ministry running the Duchies.

I am well aware Denmark-Norway is capable of building ships but an source said they bougt some from Russia as I understand it.
Imellem Rusland og Danmark foregik der i 1769 forhandlinger, der ville have medført, at Danmark fik en flådestørrelse på 60 linieskibe
https://www.krigsvidenskab.dk/claud...overgangen-til-en-national-vaernepligtig-haer

Thanks for the link - made me pull out the Dansk Udenrigspolitiks Historie Vol. 2 - p.332 the negotiations was of bilateral obligations of the treaty of 1765 by which the number of Danish ships of the line should increase (from some 23) to 50-60. The Russians would deliver building materials to an amount of 200,000 rubles a year! Quite a difference from the text in the quote.
Also the new Navy plan finished 20. february 1770 saw an increase of ships of the line to 36 and 15 frigates - from 27 and 12. According to Jan Glete the source of the article. The Danish Navy had been rebuilding since 1730 with sparse funds! (Marinehistorisk Tidsskrift 1, Februar 2014)
That way the Russian contribution only had limited influence on the Danish shipbuilding capacity.
Not saying the article is wrong but every historian interprets his data.. if only to let it fit the allowed space.. The Army wasn't just composed of hired Germans - there was three major Danish recruiting offices one each in the Low Countries, Germany and Baltics.

I will look at it but I know @Thande had wrote a timeline in his Look to the West timeline where Denmark-Norway conquered Skåne from Sweden in 1788. I used his example as an inspiration but I don't know why England didn't intervene in his ATL war between Denmark and Sweden

I use Dansk Udenrigspolitiks Historie as my source.

Thank for suggestion. I will look at it - lucky my nearby library have a copy of this book. Do I need bind 3, Fra Helstaten to Nationalstaten as well?

Depends how far you are taking this! Seriously Dansk Krigshistorie bind 1-2 is another source of info.
These two works also provide shitloads of PODs for the Alternatehistorian! ;)

Reread your two posts about land reform and military build up - somebody has to pay the bill. If the new wealthy peasants then you have to wait for them to become more taxsable. The nobility won't like getting taxed in any way at least not if they just lost cheap labour!

One of Strueensee failures was deciding to abolish the Guards Regiment and transfer the troops into other regiments composed of hired/mercenary troops. One of the ideas of Saint-Germain (look up the essay in the link ;)) These regiments saw physical punishment as the order of the day which the majority Norwegians serving with the Guards were excempt from! Hence they were ready to join the reactionaries.
The Norwegian Army usually performed quite well. Reform the Danish Army on that model to get something worthwhile. Even Saint-Germain didn't want to abolish all the hired troops - and they you may argue that it was to keep some men able to wage war..
So extend the modern forms of pedagogy to the Army and get something better than Saint-Germain was able to dream up in his "Ideelle drømmerier" - ideal dreams.. just quoting.. ;)
 
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Pretty likely, but they have lost their main card to play against the Danish crown the German diet. If they can't complain to Regensburg and Vienna anymore, the Danish government can run them over at will. It's pretty much a repeat of the coup in 1660, just in the duchies this time.

Hmm, ok had to do a reread of post #32

I personally see it simply being a opportunistic annexation, in the chaos of the French Revolution. With the Dutch and French out of the game, it's UK which are the problem, but honestly with increase in Danish army size and a likely naval increase following, a good relationship between the two countries, while UK also being busy elsewhere. I could see UK deciding to simply accept it as a fait accompli if Denmark pull a fast one. Russian in OTL de facto created Russian control over the Baltic with the alliance with Denmark, a stronger Denmark would be more likely to break out of that allliance, putting the rising Russia in a weaker position in the Baltic.

If Denmark does enlarge the Navy to some 60 ships of the line it is sure to provoke a British reaction if it does occupy Scania. That would bring on par with Spain making it a major threat to British naval security thinking - simply put who do we take out first Spain or Denmark in case of war. Well with Denmark occuping both shores of the straits and not having yet forced the Store Bælt the British are going for Denmark. Alternative - being locked out of Baltic grain, tar and other shipbuilding/replacement items will be too serious a situation.
 

Zillian

Gone Fishin'
Thanks for the link - made me pull out the Dansk Udenrigspolitiks Historie Vol. 2 - p.332 the negotiations was of bilateral obligations of the treaty of 1755 by which the number of Danish ships of the line should increase (from some 23) to 50-60. The Russians would deliver building materials to an amount of 200,000 rubles a year! Quite a difference from the text in the quote.
Not saying the article is wrong but every historian interprets his data.. if only to let it fit the allowed space..

Indeed a quite difference from that source text. I think I need to rewrite parts of post #32 as I misunderstood the historian's interpretation of the data.
Dansk Udenrigspolitiks Historie had already proved to be useful and am I using it as the main source for the next update.
Ill look at the Dansk Krigshistorie as well. Do you know some useful book for Danish Naval history?

I could not find the Dansk Krigshistorie besides library. Do you where I can buy those and the udenrigspolitiks historie? And maybe also in the Danish Naval history?
Library are all good and useful but I need to delivered them after one month and I wanted to own them as reference book :)

I know the Ribe Treaty really did gain momentum by 1848 but somebody might like to pull it out of the closet (and BTW not everything should happen at a kings whim)

Hm? What about they made a armed rebellion against the King in 1780s? That way, the King can test his new reformed army

If Denmark does enlarge the Navy to some 60 ships of the line it is sure to provoke a British reaction if it does occupy Scania. That would bring on par with Spain making it a major threat to British naval security thinking - simply put who do we take out first Spain or Denmark in case of war. Well with Denmark occuping both shores of the straits and not having yet forced the Store Bælt the British are going for Denmark. Alternative - being locked out of Baltic grain, tar and other shipbuilding/replacement items will be too serious a situation.

What if Denmark-Norway allied herself with England in the first coalition war? I could read Andreas Peter Bernstorff was pro-england but was fired and then the Prime Minister Guldberg forming the League of Armed Neutrality against England which ultimately leading to the English attack on Copenhagen 1804 and 1812.

Here in this ATL, A.P. Bernstorff would be the Danish prime minister from 1772 until his dead in 1792 and with an pro-england thinking, I could see him wanted Denmark to join the Coalition against France
 
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Indeed a quite difference from that source text. I think I need to rewrite parts of post #32 as I misunderstood the historian's interpretation of the data.
Dansk Udenrigspolitiks Historie had already proved to be useful and am I using it as the main source for the next update.
Ill look at the Dansk Krigshistorie as well. Do you know some useful book for Danish Naval history?

Please look up my revised post. :)
I often refer to http://www.navalhistory.dk/index.htm though the majority of that is post 1800. There is older info as well though. Marinehistorisk Tidsskrift is another possibility. http://marinehist.dk/?page_id=9
Generally we are not well served with military history in our country.. think the Radikale Venstre sitting upon the academics may have something to do with that. Of course the situation is improving.

Hm? What about they made a armed rebellion against the King in 1780s? That way, the King can test his new reformed army

I don't think it would come to this but something of constesting legally the incorporation of the Duchies within the Kingdom.

What if Denmark-Norway allied herself with England in the first coalition war? I could read Andreas Peter Bernstorff was pro-england but was fired and then the Prime Minister Guldberg forming the League of Armed Neutrality against England which ultimately leading to the English attack on Copenhagen 1804 and 1812.

Here in this ATL, A.P. Bernstorff would be the Danish prime minister from 1772 until his dead in 1792 and with an pro-england thinking, I could him wanted Denmark to join the Coalition against France

That seems to have been the ultimate Danish dream since at least 1720 - problem being the Danish nobility didn't want to lose investments and trade by going to war hence his insistance of free ship free cargo - much to the dislike of the British come first coalition. Then the Danish Navy didn't mind fighting the RN - we were'nt pussies in the day and age! Englandskrigene 1801-14 have something on this. :)
 
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