Space only happens when you have an ICBM. Well, at least an IRBM. I don't think the Nazi regime lasts long enough for that.In the event of a Nazi victory, or just World War II being hand-waved entirely, just how fast could Germany reach space with people like Werner von Braun? Or is it just a cliche that Germany somehow gets into space earlier than anyone else if the Nazis stay in control?
I don't think the Nazi regime lasts long enough for that.
Vostok One and beyondTotally bonkers as completely space bat but what do we mean by space? Sub orbital flight ? Orbital flight? Outer space?
The Soviets, building off the V-2 pretty much without pause, didn't launch a man into orbit until 1961. The Americans took until 1962 (though they pissed away the first 7 years of the Cold War).Well, technically they already reached space OTL, with the V-2 being the first manmade object to breach the Karman line but I know that's not what you are asking, so, let's see, it kind of depends on the strategic situation in Europe, though, I guess in both cases (win or no WW2) they will end up with the A-9/A-10 variant, or a stretched A-4 (as that was in the works) and keep building upon that for a few years, with the odd scientific rocket launch happening from time to time.
After 1946/1947? It's anyone's guess how the space program (if there's one to begin with) will end up looking. They could continue pushing for Lox and Alcohol engines, for Hydrazine or Nitric acid, going towards the R-6 (predecessor to the R-7 Soviet rocket) or towards the Diamant rocket or with their own A-9/A-10/A-11 rocket. Which might push them to send something in orbit before anyone else. If they keep funding newer and better rockets throughout the 40s and early 50s, I will say they could launch something in space in 1952-53, a human in 1955.
That's a bad example. The Soviets wasted a lot of time trying to first set up their industrial base, then to build the V-2 (R-1) with native parts, lacked quality in their builds and only later on did they start to look into ICBM. The Germans planned to have one by 1946/47.The Soviets, building off the V-2 pretty much without pause, didn't launch a man into orbit until 1961. The Americans took until 1962 (though they pissed away the first 7 years of the Cold War).
I think a victorious Nazi Germany would still have a significant head start over the OTL Soviet Union. For them, there's no initial stage of reverse-engineering captured rockets or getting info from the co-opted German engineers, it's just a little-interrupted continuation of the A-series rocket program, as they had originally planned to do. The A10 ICBM was apparently set for a first flight in 1946 (until Germany started losing the war), the A11 design added a third stage to it and could have put a satellite in orbit. I could easily see them being about 8-10 years ahead of the OTL Soviets. On the bright side, the US gets its wakeup call earlier than 1957 and starts working to race against and surpass them earlier, and they eventually would.The Soviets, building off the V-2 pretty much without pause, didn't launch a man into orbit until 1961. The Americans took until 1962 (though they pissed away the first 7 years of the Cold War).
I tend to assume that an Axis victory most likely means Operation Barbarossa happening more or less on schedule, because the idea of Lebensraum and opposing Communism was integral enough to Nazi ideology that it appeared as far back as Mein Kampf. And the US entering the war, because it's hard to convince Japan to not go for a southern strategy after Khalkhin Gol went badly for them. So, the only way for it to end with an Axis victory (at least for Europe; the US will still be motivated to fight Japan to the end) would be for Germany to defeat the Soviet Union, and keep its hold on Europe until the Atlantic Wall is built up enough to deter a Western Allied invasion (easier to do when they're not fighting the Soviets and have plenty of Soviet citizens as forced labour). With the Allied demand for peace being unconditional surrender, no official peace is possible. Air battles and strategic bombings probably continue until both sides start taking too-heavy losses from increasingly strong air defenses, and the Battle of the Atlantic lasts until the Allied navies are strong enough to (mostly) keep U-boats from being a problem for shipping. So you have what's an unofficial peace that's only maintained by the unspoken agreement to stay out of each others' turf, because any forces who don't get quickly found and destroyed. There's probably frequent and heavy skirmishes. Technically a Cold War, but barely cold, verging on tepid.That very much depends on what NAZI regime survives the war in what shape, and what motivation it would have to build rockets bigger than the A4/V2.
If the war ends after the Fall of France, maybe somebody shoots Hitler during his visit to Paris, and an armistice ensued a somewhat stable Third Reich could happen. Without Hitler I do not see Germany going after the USSR and that would be weary of war after the disaster called the Winter War.
It would lead to a Cold War, but would that provide enough motivation to keep the rocket program running at such high gear? On the other hand, certain raw materials might be in better supply, keeping the engineers from spending time trying to substitute materials.
If we assume that Göring ends up as Fuehrer with his interest in all things aeronautical it might mean a satellite in 1955 or earlier.
I think it strongly depends on what kind of victory they have. Pre-1939 Nazis could take a while as they wouldn't have the resources for it, Nazi Europe without war against the Soviets could do it pretty soon if it is their focus, Nazis with all of the Soviet Union conquered would take a lot longer since most of the resources will be eaten up by their genocide of eastern Europeans.In the event of a Nazi victory, or just World War II being hand-waved entirely, just how fast could Germany reach space with people like Werner von Braun? Or is it just a cliche that Germany somehow gets into space earlier than anyone else if the Nazis stay in control?
This is not true at all. Siemens, AEG, Telefunken, Carl Zeiss, Carl Lorenz, Konrad Zuse, Bosch, Loewe, ect. all of them were among the leading electronics companies of their their time. Germanys rise as a great power was made possible by chemical and electronics companies. IIRC, the Nazis considered bombing some power generators in Moscow since they had the plans for them as the generators were built by Siemens.One area in which the Axis did not excel was electronics. As a result, I don't see them reaching space any earlier than the Soviets did IOTL.
I am pretty sure that it is all over once the USSR and the US enter stage left. The most realistic chance of a longer lasting (play puke.wav) Third Reich is to avoid that, which is why my proposal killed Hitler off. As NAZI ideology strongly revolved around him a new Führer could write new rules. If we kill Hitler later I suspect that Himmler will become the new head honcho, and he will go for the USSR for sure.I tend to assume that an Axis victory most likely means Operation Barbarossa happening more or less on schedule, because the idea of Lebensraum and opposing Communism was integral enough to Nazi ideology that it appeared as far back as Mein Kampf. And the US entering the war, because it's hard to convince Japan to not go for a southern strategy after Khalkhin Gol went badly for them. So, the only way for it to end with an Axis victory (at least for Europe; the US will still be motivated to fight Japan to the end) would be for Germany to defeat the Soviet Union, and keep its hold on Europe until the Atlantic Wall is built up enough to deter a Western Allied invasion (easier to do when they're not fighting the Soviets and have plenty of Soviet citizens as forced labour). With the Allied demand for peace being unconditional surrender, no official peace is possible. Air battles and strategic bombings probably continue until both sides start taking too-heavy losses from increasingly strong air defenses, and the Battle of the Atlantic lasts until the Allied navies are strong enough to (mostly) keep U-boats from being a problem for shipping. So you have what's an unofficial peace that's only maintained by the unspoken agreement to stay out of each others' turf, because any forces who don't get quickly found and destroyed. There's probably frequent and heavy skirmishes. Technically a Cold War, but barely cold, verging on tepid.
Such a situation would absolutely motivate Germany to keep its rocket program running at high gear. The A10 rocket was itself a two-stage ICBM, designed to have enough range to hit the Eastern US. And with a first flight scheduled for 1946, they might be able to lob some at the US before the fighting dies down (while it would probably be delayed for a year or two given the obvious technical challenges, I think there's a good chance they'd make their schedule given the Nazis' go-for-broke attitude towards aerospace projects). From there, further ICBM designs are pursued for the same reasons as OTL, as this world is also in a Cold War, albeit a much more intense one. And of course, with earlier ICBMs from Germany, the US also begins pursuing ICBMs earlier than they did in OTL. From there, space programs begin as a natural offshoot of their development.
In fact, the A10 rockets were designed to be manned, since radio guidance wasn't considered accurate enough for targeting at such a distance in the mid 1940s. So Germany may take the win for first manned suborbital flight before the war's over. Though there's little to no chance that those poor pilots would live to enjoy it.
And yet the Allies near consistently outclassed them in the electronics department. Terrain mapping radar, radio transponders, radio navigation, radar assisted bombing, electronic countermeasures - the Germans and Japanese never surpassed these American and British developments.This is not true at all. Siemens, AEG, Telefunken, Carl Zeiss, Carl Lorenz, Konrad Zuse, Bosch, Loewe, ect. all of them were among the leading electronics companies of their their time. Germanys rise as a great power was made possible by chemical and electronics companies. IIRC, the Nazis considered bombing some power generators in Moscow since they had the plans for them as the generators were built by Siemens.
And the Germans outclassed the Allies in the electronics department during the early war years. (1939-1941) You gain an advantage for a few months or years then you lose it, only for the circle to repeat, for example, the Germans already were improving on British and US designs by 1944 from captured examples, some prototypes being more advanced (in the case of cavity magnetron) than what the Allies had in 1945, though, what the Germans lacked and the Allies had plenty was an un-bombed electronics industry.And yet the Allies near consistently outclassed them in the electronics department. Terrain mapping radar, radio transponders, radio navigation, radar assisted bombing, electronic countermeasures - the Germans and Japanese never surpassed these American and British developments.
What is to stop them from developing this following their victory? The Soviets didn't have much of these technologies during the war yet they quickly caught up to the western Allies despite losing tens of millions of their people and being ravaged by war and destruction. Research and development does not happen in a vacuum. Researchers exchange ideas and work together. Germany evidently had a large electronics industry and without a generation of German scientists 6ft deep under the eastern front, there is potential for them to catch up with the wAllies. Furthermore, Nazi victory means most of mainland Europe will be Nazi aligned so the Nazis will pool resources such as money and researchers from occupied Europe.And yet the Allies near consistently outclassed them in the electronics department. Terrain mapping radar, radio transponders, radio navigation, radar assisted bombing, electronic countermeasures - the Germans and Japanese never surpassed these American and British developments.
The Nazis had all sorts of plans and timetables like draining the Mediterranean. If WW2 doesn't happen, but the Nazis exist, then the Nazi regime collapses before an IRBM is built. If the Nazis never exist, and it's just the Germans, why are they building IRBMs? To hit Moscow? If it's A-A/NW, then the war did happen. Alright, what do they develop in that case?I think a victorious Nazi Germany would still have a significant head start over the OTL Soviet Union. For them, there's no initial stage of reverse-engineering captured rockets or getting info from the co-opted German engineers, it's just a little-interrupted continuation of the A-series rocket program, as they had originally planned to do. The A10 ICBM was apparently set for a first flight in 1946 (until Germany started losing the war), the A11 design added a third stage to it and could have put a satellite in orbit. I could easily see them being about 8-10 years ahead of the OTL Soviets. On the bright side, the US gets its wakeup call earlier than 1957 and starts working to race against and surpass them earlier, and they eventually would.