How big could the British Empire get if they avoid the ARW?

Not sent, they would've the opportunity. I didn't make myself clear. Adventurous Americans could go to India and Africa and some settlers could go to Australia.

I don't really see why many would go to these dangerous tropical places when they can just settle the American West?

Having the US in the British Empire may not benefit either side that much. It's in the Americans' best interest for the empire (outside of North America) to be smaller so they get the most attention. And it's not in the British interest to have a North American colony with more people than the mother country (and thus wants representation in Parliament).
 
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Lusitania

Donor
I don't really see why many would go to these dangerous tropical places when they can just settle the American West?
Because not everyone wants to be a farmer. Some want adventure or riches. Some are attracted to to the riches of the Caribbean and other tropical places. Lastly some had no choice since they were prisoners or indentured servants sold to plantations or other rich people to work off their debt.
 
Because not everyone wants to be a farmer. Some want adventure or riches. Some are attracted to to the riches of the Caribbean and other tropical places. Lastly some had no choice since they were prisoners or indentured servants sold to plantations or other rich people to work off their debt.

By the 1800s there are not that many indentured servants in the US, and presumably the Americans would have to agree to have their prisoners sent to the tropics (they probably would not). There might be the occasional American adventurer who goes but you are not likely to see Americans leave en masse. Their own country is a settler destination with a big frontier. They don't need to go to Africa or Australia to find that. Settlers in those places would come mainly from the UK/Ireland.

And again, it is not in the interests of the American political class to have the empire establish more settler colonies. They want the settlers to come to America, not found new places that can become rival centers of political power. What they really want is for America to dominate the TTL Parliament. I think it's quite possible that this British Empire has no Australia or New Zealand at all, and less of Africa.

I think it is logistically tough to make a continued UK/America union work. They are far away from each other and each has a big enough population to run its own affairs. Their interests are naturally going to diverge. There would have to be big compromises that would lead to tons of butterflies.
 
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I'm not sure what Code Geass refers to, but Holy Britannian seems clear. Religious conformity is always a divisive policy. A new prayer book was the precipitating event in the English Civil war, the Scots didn't like it. Fredrick the Great said it best, "Everyone in Prussia must get to Heaven on his own."

Code Geass is an anime.
 
Even so, I’d question the ability of the British to be as successful in India with this more westward focus. By the arw, the British are at best regional powers in eastern India, who don’t necessarily look poised to take the rest of the subcontinent. They might keep Bengal and maybe arcot but expansion out of that is by no means a given.

Moreover, with a more westward focus, british ability to maintain control of what they do have is more limited as well in case of an atl 1857 style revolt.

Id also be interested to see the effect on the Qing.

The British aren't making any big effort in North America, the Colonials are doing it themselves, just as in the OTL. The British can still do what they did, in Africa, and Asia, NA is a freebee.
 

xsampa

Banned
Even so, I’d question the ability of the British to be as successful in India with this more westward focus. By the arw, the British are at best regional powers in eastern India, who don’t necessarily look poised to take the rest of the subcontinent. They might keep Bengal and maybe arcot but expansion out of that is by no means a given.

Moreover, with a more westward focus, british ability to maintain control of what they do have is more limited as well in case of an atl 1857 style revolt.

Id also be interested to see the effect on the Qing.
Maybe the British expand into Canton if the Qing collapse instead of the rest of India
 

Deleted member 109224

British Americans, Irish Americans, and African-Americans are collectively 46.1% of the population.

Plus there was already lots of German immigration to the US by the time of the ARW all over the colonies.

Britain would have more men and taxdollars to pull from though, and that'd be quite significant.
 

xsampa

Banned
Maybe the lack of a British India beyond Bengal would have allowed the Marathas to survive in Maharashtra until the 20th and possibly industrialize
 

Femto

Banned
No war with America and possibly no French Revolution's Wars means Britain has more resources and time to spend focusing in South and Southeast Asia. I see the Raj still being a thing in this timeline.
 

Deleted member 109224

Also worth mentioning is that the Americans are going to have lobbyists in whitehall.

Think of how Cecil Rhodes was able to drive imperial policy in Africa. Would something similar not be possible in the Americas? The British North Americans might push hard for imperial expansion in the Caribbean basin and East Asia.
 

Femto

Banned
Also worth mentioning is that the Americans are going to have lobbyists in whitehall.

Think of how Cecil Rhodes was able to drive imperial policy in Africa. Would something similar not be possible in the Americas? The British North Americans might push hard for imperial expansion in the Caribbean basin and East Asia.
I see Britain/America taking a fairly larger bit of China than HK.
 

xsampa

Banned
Also worth mentioning is that the Americans are going to have lobbyists in whitehall.

Think of how Cecil Rhodes was able to drive imperial policy in Africa. Would something similar not be possible in the Americas? The British North Americans might push hard for imperial expansion in the Caribbean basin and East Asia.
They already have the Caribbean islands and possibly Cuba
 

Lusitania

Donor
Actually Britain got greater tax revenue from trading with USA than it did with 13 colonies. This was because most government revenue was taxes on export and imports not income tax. So the British be poorer in some ways.

I still see people talking about BNA having representation in parliament and want to clarify there would multiple people there. The south have the different priorities and would not agree with needs from New England and so forth.
 
1. Why would the British give up on ousting Napoleon?
2. Taking the Dutch colonies was not a problem as OTL, I'll give you that
3. Why would France overrun everything for the British?
4. How are they going to beat Russia on land? Napoleon tried but failed miserably?
5. How are the British going to turn the Ottoman Empire in a client state? Is Constantinople falls, the Ottoman Empire falls. The Ottomans in 1807-1808 were in no state to be turned into a client state. The governors of various provinces would refuse any pro-British demands, like they refused the reforms. Also, Neither the British or the French would have enough resources to subjugate the entire Empire and with Russia allowing it. If Russia can be beaten? See point 4. If Napoleon or any French ruler will do it? See point 3. Subjugating North Africa is not difficult yet not easy as well. In the sense of, taking the Coastal towns but that's it. France conquered Algiers in 1830 and only secured the small parts behind the coastal towns in the early 1850s. That's almost 20 years.
6. How are the British going to divide their resources in subjugating Mesopotamia AND Levant AND North Africa? That's plain impossible especially with their wars against the Maratha Confederacy by the EIC.

I am tired of reading. This seems like a plan someone has when playing Europa Universalis IV or Victoria II. It is not realistic. Not even the slightest bit. Most of the European and American Nations were not like the Zulu to subjugate with ease. Especially when you consider that France does most of the work in bringing down a European power like Russia.

You'll find me to be the farthest person from a Britwanker around, for starters. As to why they give up on ousting Napoleon, the premise involves a France-wank to begin with. France is far more successful in subjugating their defeated enemies such as Austria, and butterflies lead to a more well-planned invasion of Russia supported by an engorged Kingdom of Poland, Kingdom of Hungary, Sweden, etc. that topples the Czar and turns Russia south and east of Astrakhan into splinter states due to no central authority from St. Petersburg and no realistic means for the French to actually conquer these lands. So British public perception shifts to seeming despair or resignation in toppling Napoleon's regime in Europe when the last person standing is the Ottoman Empire and thus, a shift to containment.

3. They're not doing it for the British, the French are trying to counteract Britain's naval blockade by destabilizing their economy and forcing their trading partners into the Continental System. First Russia, then the Ottoman Empire. Britain probably teeters on bankruptcy in the early years of such a scenario.

4. See above premise about a Napoleon-wank

5. Political dependency shifting into economic domination. The Ottoman Empire will be dependent on Britain to keep France on the other side of the Straights and will be forced to relocate their capital, in all likelihood. Constantinople may or may not fall, what matters is that the Osmanli dynasty doesn't collapse but are put into a precarious enough situation that they're dependent on Britain and in turn, the British are dependent on the Ottomans to sell their goods to. By the time the Ottoman Empire starts prospering on their own, their economy is intertwined with Britain's and is basically the Left Hand of the UK in foreign policy and heavily influenced by British political thought. Anti-France, pro-navy, pro-colonialism. Basically part of the informal empire in spirit. Britain isn't seizing the Ottoman Empire by any means; you're putting words into my mouth(text) and reading what you want to read. Britain 'subjugating' North Africa or Persia doesn't mean setting up a British governor.

6. Britain and the Ottoman Empire are in bed together in what starts as political dependency(ie puppet) like mentioned above, Britain isn't conquering anything. You're out of your mind if you think that's what I wrote. You think I'd call Napoleon trying and largely failing to subjugate either Russia or the Ottoman Empire impossible, then turn around and say Britain can overrun thousands upon thousands of KM from Morocco to Bengal? Really?
 
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xsampa

Banned
There would not be much different british Caribbean changes. They would not take Cuba too difficult to control with its large Spanish population.
One theory is that a Britain with a directly integrated America would just have 13 Colonies+Quebec+Caribbean+Bengal+Part of Natal
 

Femto

Banned
One theory is that a Britain with a directly integrated America would just have 13 Colonies+Quebec+Caribbean+Bengal+Part of Natal
I really don't see why. They had the power to conquer half the world outside of Europe. Britain wasn't a monolithic empire in the sense that the government didn't control every colonization attempt, a big part was made by the hands private enterprises. Enterprises who would still exist and have an easier access to American manpower and capital.

Hell, not having to be wary about the Americans invading Canada could potentialize British imperialism elsewhere.

Could the Americans have interest in sending their own prisoners to Australia?
 
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