HMS Heligoland POD 1945 :

Centaur...

According to the history written by the historian of the British Space Programme, Britain did indeed nearly buy the hydrolox Centaur to put onto Blue Streak. Rather less expensive than the Polaris or Skybolt, so I think it would be possible. In exchange, NASA can acquire the fuel cell - another British invention abandoned to others. However, I agree it was the weakest element.

To digress slightly, all British rockets except Blue Streak went for the hydrogen peroxide oxidiser. This is ironic, for the first British rocket engine was the lox/petrol one-tonne thrust job built by a Shell engineer in 1942. The peroxide technology came from Walther in Germany, but Britain developed it to a fine art. Black Knight, used to test re-entry vehicles, and Black Arrow, Britain's one successful satellite launcher.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Arrow - read it and weep.:mad:

BTW, moving to the 1980s next...
 
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Falkenburg

Monthly Donor
Still ticking along nicely, CM. :cool:

One little nitpick, if I may. :eek:

That 'Popfesthus' was the scene of a terrible disaster in 1972; a fire swept through the building and killed 273 people, 46 of them Helgolanders, a scale of death not seen on the Lunn since the end of World War II; it was months before the venue re-opened with new safety precautions,

~SNIP~

Heligoland profited from the helicopter and support vessel activity, a much-needed boost after the terrible disaster at the 'Popfesthus', which was not rebuilt as it was considered deangerous.

Falkenburg
 
According to the history written by the historian of the British Space Programme, Britain did indeed nearly buy the hydrolox Centaur to put onto Blue Streak. Rather less expensive than the Polaris or Skybolt, so I think it would be possible. In exchange, NASA can acquire the fuel cell - another British invention abandoned to others. However, I agree it was the weakest element.

To digress slightly, all British rockets except Blue Streak went for the hydrogen peroxide oxidiser. This is ironic, for the first British rocket engine was the lox/petrol one-tonne thrust job built by a Shell engineer in 1942. The peroxide technology came from Walther in Germany, but Britain developed it to a fine art. Black Knight, used to test re-entry vehicles, and Black Arrow, Britain's one successful satellite launcher.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Arrow - read it and weep.:mad:

BTW, moving to the 1980s next...

Oh yes I know...'Vertical Empire'......and all that........

Its just that in TTL, the UK seems to be doing better so the US might not want to 'help' us as much.
 
My blooper...

Edited, Falkenburg. Summerlands Fire Disaster was in my mind when I wrote it - rebuild or demolish? I went ultimately for clearance and re-use.

PMN1, I thought about this and decided - as per the Polaris - the USA wanted some obligations to keep Britain on side. The alternative was too near a Britwank, as low temperature liquid gas technology was the very devil to develop - liquefied methane and lox are minor by comparison.
 
You don't know the half of it...

...I got interested in mariculture whilst studying a possible lifestyle for mermaids in this day and age. Yes, another book - if it hadn't been for HMS Heligoland I'd be finishing it off.

Debating what to do next with Heligoland - '80s were pretty much a continuation of the 1970s. Got to do some research...
 
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1980s : A period of Military Decline :

The growth of tourism and oil service industries cloaked the steady decline of HMS Heligoland and RAF Hallem from the end of the 1970s onwards, with the famous turret guns being officially reduced to museum items by 1987. Radar remained important for air traffic control, but it was becoming clear that the old fkak tower control room was no longer suitable to house a modern traffic-control centre. Germany insisted on having its own control system, after the Heligoland-based control system was considered inadequate and too slow for high-speed modern air combat control. Rather than update Heligoland's facilities, the British Government ran them down; the famous steam catapult of RAF Hallem was scrapped in 1982, replaced by a longer runway and a wing of RAF Bruggen's Tornadoes and Harriers. Royal Navy use of the South Harbour had declined to a pair of minesweepers and two patrol boats, the old submarine pens being used to house them. The rest of the South Harbour and the new anchorage was given over to ferries, merchantmen, pleasure yachts and the support vessels of the oil industry, increasingly German-owned although many were still Heligoland-flagged.

Oil and gas had become major industries in the North Sea and on Heligoland they had become all-important generators of electricity, providers of hot water and sources of employment. The Lunn had a gas-fired turbine power station by 1981, supplemented by an extensive wind-farm on the shoals to the northeast, the waste heat of the gas-turbine being used in a low-pressure desalination still. The fresh water supply of the Lunn was ensured, but the Helgolanders increasingly feared that Germany would dominate their future; the defeat of the Argentine invasion of the Falklands had in 1982 seemed to assure British control of Heligoland, but French and Spanish hostility to Gibraltar - and by extension, to Heligoland - was unabated. Paradoxically, the Germans had no desire to change the status quo of Heligoland, for it had at last been accepted that British ownership would avert the risks of a war; as one Green politician put it, any German politician trying to 're-integrate' the island with Germany was suspected of having intentions that would lead to a third World War.

One highly-secret establishment operated on Helgoland to the complete ignorance of the locals, that being the Communications Intercept Station (Heligoland), located in the northern end of the Lunn, not far from the Bloodhound empklacements. Linked to listening-antenna disguised as fence-wires, this 'listening station' under RAF control was in many ways the excuse for maintaining the defensive missile installation, even to the uprating to Bloodhound III of the entire missile system. The establishment was only revealed when remarks about it were made by a foolish Democrat Senator at a Washington cocktail party, late in 1986. Britain was deeply offended, the Russians were furious and the Germans rather hurt. The Senator had said that Heligoland had been the 'Big Ear' for RAF/USAF Menwith Hill, being conveniently secure and with its own communications links back to Britain. Naturally, the Helgolanders were rather proud of their importance, which explained some of the heavy investment of the post-war years, but it also explained some of the stranger events, such as when the RAF had stopped a smallholder from fitting an electric fence and the restriction of Radio Free Heligoland to certain radio frequencies. Unfortunately, it also re-started acrimony with the pacifist pop enthusiasts; some accused the RAF of being responsible for the Popfesthus fire, although this had already been traced to a fan smoking a reefer and dropping it in some rubbish. It proved necessary for HM Government to issue a statement that intelligence operations remained secret and that RAF CIT (Heligoland) was a safeguard against Warsaw Pact attempts to invade western Europe - a truth that further angered Russia but spiked the guns of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.

"Even the neutral nations listen and watch for signs of enemy forces building up to an invasion attempt." The Minister for Defence pointed out. "Heligoland listens. In that sense it is a guarantor of peace."

"So why is Heligoland so heavily armed with missiles and a long runway for strike aircraft?" That was a very left wing remark from Anthony Wedgewood-Benn and drew a frosty look from the Prime Minister. Margaret Thatcher had regarded him as a stool-pigeon for the ultra-left, a voice for Soviet propaganda.

"The Right -" Pause. "- Honourable Member for Chesterfield should remember that the Bloodhound III anti-aircraft missiles defend parts of Denmark and Germany from air attack, as well as Heligoland itself. He may not like it -" Laughter, even from the Labour Benches. "- but as part of NATO we have obligations to our Allies. The runway of RAF Heligoland replaces the defence catapult, and is used by interceptor aircraft to monitor air movements. Strike aircraft are based further forwards and at bases in Britain. These facts have become known. If the Right -" Another pause. "- Honourable Member for Chesterfield has more information that he can prove, I suggest he reports it to the Speaker of this House as a matter of national security." There were hidden teeth in her words; to conceal information from the House could be abuse of parliamentary privilege or even be considered as treason.

CND did try to stage a march in Heligoland but its organisers found the Helgolanders at first ignored them and later poked fun at the banners that called heligoland a nuclear missile site. With direct permission from Margaret Thatcher, the amused RAF No. 217 Squadron (Missile) commander allowed a deputation to wave a Geiger counter near a missile on launch readiness; other than background radiation from the sky and the Bunter sandstone, there was no reading. Correspondents from 'The Observer', 'The Guardian', 'The Times' and 'The Daily Mail', observed the visit and wrote up stories that echoed the laughter of the Helgolanders. The AA missiles were not designed to do more than defend the island from attack and held no radiactive material of any description. When one CND activist tried to use an old radium-dial watch to fake a reading, the reporters blew the scandal into a national story, lampooned by 'The Times' as 'CND Nuclear Attack On Heligoland'. The Heligoland Council declared that it had been assured that at no time had any nuclear weapons been stored or deployed on Heligoland, nor were there any plans to do so; the general tone of 'More in Sorrow than in Anger' had its effect, CND suffering a serious knock to its credibility. Matters went from bad to worse when it was revealed that two CND activists had been found trying to sell pictures of military installations on Heligoland to journalists posing as KGB agents; CND denounced it as a set-up, but the activists had been caught red-handed and spent the next five years in a military prison.

Radio Free Heligoland broadcast to many parts of Northern Europe, being able also to be heard in East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Poland and parts of Lithuania and Kaliningrad. Despite persistent Soviet jamming of the German, Danish and Polish language frequencies, RFH managed to broadcast its mixture of pop, advertisement, news and interest-programmes, to many in the Communist bloc. Being a mainline commercial station, rather than a propaganda-organ like Voice of America, RFH became respected almost as much as the BBC World Service, a reliable source of news and information on world events that affected its listeners. Events such as the 'Solidarity' campaign in Poland and the growth of Russian dissent after Afghanistan, were reported and became triggers for the dissent and groundswell of opposition that was to finally disrupt East Germany's frontier defences in 1989.

People from Berlin and Dresden marched to the border with West Germany demanding the right to cross freely between East and West. Initially it appeared to be a way to let the East invade the West, but when thousands of West Germans marched from Hamburg, Braunschweig (Brunswick) and Leipzig, with old pictures of families behind the Iron Curtain, the mood changed. Border Guards were being begged by old and young East Germans to let them through, surrounding the officers and men and easily outnumbering them and forcing them away from their posts by simple pressure of numbers. Radio Free Heligoland was on the scene with its reporters, broadcasting live whilst other stations were trying to decide their editorial slant. Students and former National Volksarmee (NVA) conscripts gradually took over the border crossings and hoisted the black, red and yellow tricolor without the Federal and Bundesrepublik differentiation, dismantling the landmine field triggers and opening the control gates. It was not as impressive as knocking over a wall, but the columns from West and East met and intermingled as families sought each other and hugged. Then NVA officers dared to order mine ploughs out of depots and ploughed mine-free lanes and new crossing-points, whilst the West German authorities and guards looked on in utter astonishment. The West German government asked its counterparts in Berlin what they were up to and discovered that even the notorious Stasi were bewildered and afraid; the Russians were going through their own Soviet collapse, with the Duma using people power to topple the Praesidium and neutralise the KGB by dividing the Army.

The exact circumstances remain obscure, but the East Germans tore the guts out of the border defences when they realised that the West Germans were more than willing to be friends and wanted unity; the government faced crowds that demanded re-integration and refused to consider it impossible. Russian forces might have forced a civil war, except that NVA units physically blocked them in and were trying to exchange liaison officers with the Allied and Bundeswehr units near the East/West frontier and the Czech Army (Armada Ceske Republiky - ACR). This was done mainly by low-level regimental officers of Colonel or Lieutenant-General level, rather than the dumbfounded General Staff. The regimental officers pointed out that a war could start by accident, unless care was taken, so the General Staff used this as an excuse for the widespread collapse of military authority. The Party, the Stasi and the politicians, were faced by a silent revolution and coup that spread throughout East Germany and triggered similar actions in the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary. Russian conscripts had been unwilling to start a battle with the NVA, partly because they were aware that the Poles and Czechs lay between them and Russia, so the Political Officers were unable to motivate officers or men.

Heligoland had watched as the Warsaw Pact began to fall apart, but a shrewd old Helgolander remarked that it was the end of an era; Britain and NATO no longer needed to use Heligoland as a forward radar and monitoring station, much less as a missile site. The oil industry, the pop festivals and tourism, were likely to be the main sources of income. However, the RAF and the Royal Navy did not wish to abandon their valuable forward bases in the Bight, so for the moment it seemed that some services personnel would still spend money on Heligoland. In a choice between running down the Bloodhounds or the Harriers, the Bloodhounds won a reprieve and the Harriers went to RAF Bruggen. The Bloodhound III was showing its age, so there was already discussion about its replacement with the Sea Dart missile, with greater range and higher speed, but this was to be delayed by the 'peace dividend'.
 
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...Next comes the 1990s - if anybody's interested?

corditeman

Definitely still interested. One small quibble. I presume its Spain and Germany objecting to Gibraltar and Heligoland rather than Spain and France as you put in post 47?

Steve
 
France, Spain, Gibraltar and Heligoland...

...Spain loathes Gibraltar, France loathes Britain for failing to collapse and maintaining EFTA, both nations see Heligoland as another manifestation of British policy that includes Gibraltar. Germany doesn't care a damn - Heligoland in British hands has been usefully neutral for Germany.

I've edited the relevant sentence a little...:eek:

...And I'll play this one up to 2010...
 
...Spain loathes Gibraltar, France loathes Britain for failing to collapse and maintaining EFTA, both nations see Heligoland as another manifestation of British policy that includes Gibraltar. ..

And there was much rejoicing...except in Spain and France...and there was much rejoicing!!!
 
1990s Heligoland : A Decade of Rapid Changes :

The decade began with the re-union of the two Germanies, a time when Germany re-emerged as an independent power and NATO seemed to be onm the wane. Russia was to fall to democracy of a sort almost as swiftly, but the Helgolanders justifiably wondered whether the end of military interest was in sight. The focus of nmilitary action shifted to the Middle East, where squabbles over Muslim Fundamentalism and oil were coming to a head; Saddam Hussein decided that nobody would intervene if he took Kuwait, so he marched in and triggered a disastrous war with the United States and NATO. At the time, Maragaret Thatcher was the UK Prime Minister, but losing much of her personal influenbce in her party, but Britain went in with the USA to deal with Saddam Hussein. Heligoland had little influence except as a radar site and listening post, but its proximity to the collapsing Soviet Union let NATO monitor an unexpected development; the Soviets were moving formations southeastwards from Germany, Poland and Czechoslovakia, heading through the Ukraine down towards the Caucasus. Most were air-portable forces, some were fighter and bomber aircraft and others were Hind anti-tank helicopters - the formidable 'flying tanks' - too many, it seeme. d, to be reinforcement to protect the vital Baku oilfields and the Persian-Turkish border. Russia was known to be flying in ammunition and other military supplies, for which Saddam Hussein paid cash. Turkish and American monitoring stations were alerted after Heligoland identified the units, the USA asking Britain to quietly tell Russia to keep its nose out of Iraq, a task Margaret Thatcher did with her usual finesse. The Cabinet thought it was 'unwise', but the Iron Lady warned Russia that Saddam Hussein was on the way out, but that NATO forces were trusting that they did not have to engage Soviet forces in the 'No Fly Zone' north of Mosul. It worked, it startled the Conservative mandarins and it took a worry away from George Bush, Senior;
more significantly, it saved the Premiership of Margaret Thatcher at a critical time by restoring faith in her leadership.

During the Gulf War, there was a point at which the war could have ended with Saddam Hussein still in power and Kuwait recaptured, because of fears of Russian involvement in Northern Iraq. The Turkish government quietly mobilised forces that it moved to the border with Iraq and Russia - ostensibly to stop Kurdish infiltration but actually to be ready in case of a Russian push south over Iranian and Turkish territory into Iraq. Across the border in Iran, the Revolutionary Guards were equally determined not to let the infidel Russians enter the sacred soil of Iran, prepared to match Russian technology with revolutionary fervour and cannon fodder. If push had come to shove, it would have been a war with curiously opposed allies against the Russian Bear. Instead, the Russians held their positions and remained there whilst the Kurds and Marsh Arabs in Iraq rose up against Saddam Hussein, who was facing the destruction of his military power by a rapid Allied advance. President Miterrand of France, realising that the French Foreign Legion was 240 km (150 miles) from Baghdad, contacted Margaret Thatcher - and then President George Bush Senior - to advise a fast advance on Baghdad. Thatcher agreed, saying that it was impossible not to do so, which precipitated a brief political crisis in the Alliance. Egypt and other Arab Coalition partners were wholeheartedly against proceeding, but Thatcher and Miterrand held Bush's nerve and the Saudis did not want a resurgence of Saddam Hussein. The result was that the Legionnaires and the US Marines were told to encircle and enter Baghdad, whilst RAF, USAF and Armee de L'air strike aircraft hammered Iraqi positions. A British Armoured Division took Basra, to the enthusiastic support of Marsh Arabs, whilst the French and Americans seized Baghdad. Futher north, a mixture of Kurds and US Airborne forces took Mosul and established a Free Republic of Kurdistan in the upper third of Iraq; they agreed to take in from Turkey all refugee Kurds, which lead to an extensive transfer of ethnic Kurdish population.

Saddam Hussein was killed by Kurds north of Baghdad, after walking over a mine when trying to reach the border into Syria; he had an interesting and rather butcher-shop death, for the Kurds had a lot of abuse to avenge. The dictator's 'Palaces' in Baghdad were taken over by the occupation forces and the nascent Iraqi democratic government, whose forces and Police were 'sanitised' by the ever-practical Margaret Thatcher, before resuming their duties under new and stringent regulations. The USA was taken aback by British pragmatism, but the alternative was an unpopular long occupation and Iranian-triggered resistance. British and French Special Forces became known and feared for their rapid and lethal response to attempts to revive the Ba'ath Party's reign of terror, tracking down former diehards of Saddam Hussein. This accounts for Bush's remark that British and French forces had had a military impact far beyond their limited numbers. Casualties were relatively high amongst the Special Forces, but the overall losses were lower than by using air power and regular units. When the Western forces left Iraq in 1994, they had created both Kurdistan and Mesopotamian Iraq, two new nations that had stabilised under their own leadership, to the horror of Iran and the dismay of Syria. Egypt had come round to reality, whilst the Saudis conceded that their opposition to an occupation had been 'just politics'. But it had angered the Muslim Fundamentalists, who always expected a Western secular plot under every stone, maybe triggering that horrible attack by al-Quaeda on the 24th February 1994 at the World Trade Centre.

The attack was kept secret until the bombs were planted, but the bombs' complexity was remarkable; two large vans were each loaded with a tonne of minly urea-nitrate explosive, acting as a burster charge within tanks of ethylene oxide gas and sodium cyanide - designed to create thermobaric gas (fuel-air) explosions and poisoning. The explosion beneath WTC Tower 1 toppled the structure into WTC 2, bringing both structures down and creating a plume of poisonous vapour that was itself a killer. Twelve other vans loaded with explosives and poison gases were set off in tunnels, on bridges and at major road junctions, the suicide bombers succeeding in immobilising the southern part of Manhattan Island and causing heavy casualties. By the 26th February it became clear that the Manhattan financial district had been the main target, with stockbrokers and financiers massacred by explosions and poison gas, a total of 32,117 people being killed and 42,023 treated for fragmentation debris injuries and gas inhalation. The high level of deaths was mostly the result of the WTC 1 and 2 collapse and the detonations that shattered glass windows and started fires. There is some indication that clothes shops and hotels were targetted with incendiary bombs in the confusion, the fires causing serious problems.

The collapse of Yugoslavia in the 1990s was begun by a short war between Slovenia and the Serb-dominated Republic of Yugoslavia, which collapsed as the Bosnians and Croats began to agitate and fight for their independence. Margaret Thatcher is supposed to have looked round from the Gulf War actions and remarked that a squadron of Harriers were needed in Yugoslavia. The wing of Harriers operating out of Heligoland were sent with aircraft from RAF Bruggen to cluster-bomb a Serbian tank column, breaking it as conclusively as the Iraqi armour north of Kuwait. The Serbs resorted to terrorism by their regular forces and units of irregulars, creating a patchwork-quilt of warfare without a clear front line, similar to the horrific Greek and Turkish wars. It was only in 1994 that NATO forces were free to close this latest chapter of Balkan warfare by attacking Belgrade and forcing a surrender, by which time Michael Heseltine had become the inevitable choice as a Leader of the Conservative Party. Thatcher lost power in the 1994 General Election and a Labour administration under Tony Blair took over, but continued many of Thatcher's international policies. It was later acknowledged that her unilateral decision to stop Serb tanks had prevented the war from lasting years, even if it resulted in the complete breakup of Yugoslavia.
 
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Heligoland had little influence except as a radar site and listening post, but its proximity to the collapsing Soviet Union let NATO monitor an unexpected development; the Soviets were moving formations southeastwards from
From where? Talk about keeping us in suspense! ;)
 
Well, Geordie...

...I was called for tea and had to save the paragraph unfinished.

...I hope you like the thought of the butterflies ahead...
 

Falkenburg

Monthly Donor
more significantly, it saved the Premiership of Margaret Thatcher at a critical time.

Does this imply that the challenge to Mrs Ts' leadership doesn't materialise? Or that she staves it off for a while?

Maggie going on ...:eek:

Falkenburg
 
Does this imply that the challenge to Mrs Ts' leadership doesn't materialise? Or that she staves it off for a while?

Maggie going on ...:eek:

Falkenburg

Falkenburg

That was my reaction as well. In the short term Iraq is sorted out earlier and with far less deaths. However it could be a disaster for Britain with an increasingly detached from reality leader staying longer.

Also actually the reason the Turks mobilised was less to do with feared Soviet intervention and more to do with being in a position to supress any independent Kurdish state in Iraq. If they did allow it but used it as a dumping ground for the far larger number of Kurds in Turkey then its going to be ethnic cleansing on a massive scale and the Kurdish state in N Iraq is going to be a huge disaster.

The world trade attack comes earlier and is far more destructive.Its unclear whether Bush senior won a 2nd term or whether you still had Clinton or another Democrat in the White House.

Steve
 
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