"Goring's Reich" An Alternate World War II

galveston bay

Prologue: Herman Goring was carefully examined, observed and analyzed during the Nuremberg Trials. He was widely considered the most dangerous of all of the defendants. For good reason. He was ruthless, charismatic, and after he was detoxed from his addictions and lost weight, a man who fought every step of the way to avoid his fate, but also to absolve Germany of its sins.

So how dangerous would the Third Reich have been if he had taken power? In my view very dangerous indeed. This timeline will be an alternate World War II, with a more pragmatic Fuhrer whose central focus is to eliminate the Soviets first, and make Germany the dominate power of Europe and thus the world.


 
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galveston bay

1933
Herman Goring cleans up from opiate addiction after a near fatal accident, this is kept highly secret. (POD)

1936
Goring loses control of the Gestapo to Himmler

1938
Hitler turns down Goring's request to become War Minister. Goring, concerned along with the military that Hitler is rushing to fast, and still angry over Hitler's moves that reduced his own power, begins to plot. (POD)


France extends Maginot Line to the sea in a crash effort after final efforts to form an alliance with Belgium fail. (POD)

Goring manages to increase output as head of the four year plan, and manages to increase the number of mobile divisions by a combination of increasing production, buying vehicles from the Ford Company in the United States (and getting a new production facility built by Ford in Germany), and accelerates development of fighter production and the formation of parachute and glider troops.

(this adds 9 motorized light divisions, 2 motorized infantry divisions, 1 parachute division plus 150 front line fighter planes to the September 1939 German order of battle)


April 1939
Hitler, Hess, and Bormann are killed in a mysterious mid air explosion. Himmler is arrested and executed, SS reduced in power. Goring takes control of Germany, appoints General Bruno Loezer as head of the Luftwaffe and Heydrich as head of the SS which is to remain a security service. SS combat forces are retained for now at a small level. Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht troops become part of the Fuhrers body guard.

Goring is formerly declared Fuhrer of Germany, the Wehrmacht, Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe swear new oaths to him.


May -June 1939
Goring begins diplomatic efforts between Germany, Poland, Baltic States, Hungary, Bulgaria, and Rumania along with continued efforts with Italy and Japan. Ribbontrop is removed from office as he is considered ineffective and made ambassador to Argentina. Von Neurath is restored to his job as Foreign Minister.

On June 28, a military alliance is secretly signed between Germany, Poland and the Baltic states, with discussions still under way with the others and now Spain as well. Stalin manages to learn of the discussions and orders Stavka to prepare for an offensive strike against the Poles and Balts as well as Rumania if war appears imminent.

SS combat formations are assigned to the Army for now, but plans are made for a new role for them in the future. Talks begin between German and Polish officials about removing the Jews from Poland and the Reich.
 
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zert

Interesting with the PODs and what you have shared so far. I am not sure how well a detoxed Goering can hold things together, but I will see how you take things.
 

galveston bay

The expansion of German Mobilie forces

In OTL, the Germans had during the 1939 campaign in Poland a quasi panzer division called a light division. This consisted of 2 regiments of motorized infantry, a panzer battalion, plus the usual artillery, engineers and other support units found in a panzer or panzer grenadier division. Historically they were found to be too light, but they did provide a short term expedite while production expanded for Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs.

In this timeline, the Germans convert 8 Jager and 1 Horse Cavalry division into light divisions, with PZ JG I and early conversion of PzII chassis into Marder I tank hunters. Trucks are acquired from the United States from Ford (who was unpleasantly pro Nazi prewar) and from purchases from Italy.

The money needed to pay for this, along with the two early conversions of 2 more jager divisions into motorized infantry divisions is collected by a forced contribution from Polish, Czech, Slovakian and Polish Jews (with the assistance of the Polish government, who gains some equipment from this as well) and deficit spending by Germany (even more than historical).

Goring is a more driven and competent man in this timeline, as he is not in a haze of drugs and living in Hitler's shadow.

Extra fighter production is paid for by the same expedient. The extra Parachute division is simply two years earlier than historical, but drawn from the same source it would be later on in OTL. The extra airlift comes from an increase in production of Ju52 and using Ju86 aircraft (already relegated to training duties) as glider tow planes.

The Soviets and French react to this build up differently.

The French try with a bit more desperation to convince Belgium to sign a formal alliance but suffer the same problems of an apparently blind King Albert II. They thus begin the extension of the Maginot Line with extensive field works and add concrete bunkers and other fortifications as they can. 2nd Line reservists are reassigned from their previous mobilization duties to man these fortifications once completed.

The Soviets react by assigning large numbers of political prisoners to hurried efforts to complete the Stalin Line, and by expanding the production of spare parts to get more of their tanks and trucks into operating order (huge numbers of these were non operational in 1941), as well a expanding a callup of conscripts beginning in 1938 to expand the army. However, this is still the same Red Army that has been viciously and thoroughly purged by Stalin, so its efficiency is still a the level it was historically in 1939. Which is to say, the Red Army is a seriously flawed force.

But it is a bigger force as of 1939, with 2 more mechanized armies, 3 more motorized armies, and 3 experimental shock corps with extra artillery and some of the new KV1 tanks.
 
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galveston bay

Meanwhile

The United States is still recovering from the Great Depression. Roosevelt is unhappy about the sale fo Ford trucks to Nazi Germany but Ford uses political pressure (and the fact that it provides important jobs) to prevent Federal interference.

Meanwhile, the British continue to hurriedly rearming after Munich. The death of Hitler is seen potentially a major reprieve, but British Intelligence worries about German discussions in Eastern Europe, and some of that is leaked to Stalin (by Philby etc). For now the British are still preparing for the likely war with Germany.

The Japanese and Soviets are fighting a border campaign at Khalkhyn Gol, which is not going well for the Japanese and the Soviets are preparing a counterattack. The Japanese are becoming increasingly bogged down in China as well, but German and Japanese talks are proceeding with more seriousness (POD)

Another critical major departure: The Poles are the ones who first got the major breakthrough that would lead to Ultra. They are no longer going to be providing that vital Allied break to the West.
 
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galveston bay

Goering vs Goring

I have seen both. I am going to stick with Goring for this timeline as that is how it is spelled in most American histories of World War II

We have no butter... but I ask you, would you rather have butter or guns? Preparedness makes us powerful. Butter merely makes us fat.
Goring (prewar radio address)

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
(from the Nuremberg Trials, OTL)


 

zert

Things are about to get nasty. With these POD, Russia will not have a non aggression pact with Germany. Will Russia still try to take on Finland, or escape that turmoil? France is Bunkering down, and with the Maginot Line completed, will they be willing to go to Belgium's defense or be able to counter any German advances?

With Poland an ally to Germany, what might the new cause to start the War?
 

galveston bay

Plans are made

In spite of its serious flaws (having lost vast numbers of middle and senior ranking officers to the Gulags or bullets in the back of the head), the Soviet Army as of 1939 believes to its core that upon the start of war, it will launch a massive attack to drive deep into enemy territory to disrupt enemy forces and revolutionary party spirit, massive numbers (of men and machines) and unrelenting pressure would bring it victory.

(At the start of Barbarossa the Soviets indeed tried this (and were overwhelmed and destroyed) but the armies and air armies in the forward military districts tried.)

The Stalin Line is the backup in case this failed. The NKVD and GRU are well aware of the weaknesses of the Balts, the problems that the Poles have, and of course that the Rumanians and Hungarians hate each other almost more than any outside enemy. The only experience each side has with the other is in Spain, where the Germans were helpful but only a division sized force (the Italians were there in far greater strength) and had a difficult time with Soviet aircraft and tanks.

A strong Soviet offensive that reaches the Vistula and Ploesti before the Germans can get there in strength is thus in the mind of Soviet planners not impossible and thus would put the Germans in a desperate position as their principal source of oil would be severed.

The Soviet generals that would disabuse Stalin of this notion are either locked up, dead, or busy dealing with the Japanese.

Meanwhile, Goring has instructed his military chiefs to prepare for war against the Soviet Union. Well aware that his lock on power is shaky, as there are other Nazis waiting in the wings, he must do something to focus the German nation and a foreign war against the Communists seems the perfect solution. In addition, his intelligence agencies are telling him that the Red Army is a hollow shell, with too many of its vehicles lacking parts, too many of its officers dead or in prison, and only party lickspittles having authority (this is put to him a bit diplomatically).

He is also aware of the thin margin of financial resources he has, and that ultimately he will have to either end the military buildup or Germany will go broke. But the Soviet Union is rich in resources if nothing else, and of course has plenty of labor. Both of which can be put to productive use by the Third Reich.

The OKH (Oberkommando des Heeres) is ordered to prepare a two year campaign to defeat the Soviet Union. The first year will secure the Ukraine, Belorussia and eliminate Soviet access to the Baltic and North Atlantic by securing Leningrad and the rail lines north to Murmansk. If possible, the Finns and Swedes will be persuaded to assist with this. The second year of the war will conquer Moscow, and secure a line along the Volga, thus cutting off the Soviet Union from its oil supplies in Baku and leaving that area ripe for plucking. German experience in the previous war showed that a single year campaign is simply not possible due to the immense space involved. In addition, logistical constraints including the need to upgrade Russian rail ways as they are taken will prevent victory in a single campaign.

A provisional plan is hurriedly put together based on experience from the last war, and by hurried and focused staff work. OKL (Luffwaffe) and OKM (Kriegmarine) are ordered to assist in this planning, while OKW ( Oberkommando der Wehrmacht) is ordered to begin carrying out initial tasks. Officers are sent to Poland and into the Baltic states to work with their local allies. Concerned about a possible counterstrike at Ploesti, OKH also prepares plans for reinforcing the that nation should it be required.

By July the Soviets and Germans are already shifting forces, and while the Germans are in the dark about Soviet preparations, Soviet spies in Germany are reporting much of the gist of Goring's plan back to Stalin.
 
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zert

Well Stalin haa a partial upper hand with his spies but his troops and not very effective. Will Russia try to gain any allies or support for the coming War?
 

Brosip Broz Tito

Banned
I'm liking this, interesting to see a somewhat competent Goring in action.

It'll be interesting to see who makes the first move.

One question, why is a plan to capture Moscow not in the first year of the invasion plan? Moscow should be priority, all roads and railways led to Moscow. With Axis Poland you are that much closer. It may not cause the Soviets to collapse, but it will certainly cause them to buckle, and while they're reeling go for Leningrad, Stalingrad, and Astrakhan.

What are the Japanese doing? Are they stuck in China? If you really wanted to turn this into an Axis wank you could have them discover oil in Manchuria, and then build up for a war against the Soviets rather than China.

Maybe while you are creating a bigger Axis, have Turkey join if Moscow falls.
 

pdf27

Quick note: Goering was shot in the leg and/or groin during the Beer Hall Putsch, and I've seen a couple of sources suggest that the ongoing pain from this was the reason for his Opiate addiction. A simpler POD for you would be to have the bullet strike him in a way so as not to cause massive ongoing pain (i.e. not in the crotch), or miss completely.
 

galveston bay

Brosip Broz Tito said:
I'm liking this, interesting to see a somewhat competent Goring in action.

It'll be interesting to see who makes the first move.

One question, why is a plan to capture Moscow not in the first year of the invasion plan? Moscow should be priority, all roads and railways led to Moscow. With Axis Poland you are that much closer. It may not cause the Soviets to collapse, but it will certainly cause them to buckle, and while they're reeling go for Leningrad, Stalingrad, and Astrakhan.

What are the Japanese doing? Are they stuck in China? If you really wanted to turn this into an Axis wank you could have them discover oil in Manchuria, and then build up for a war against the Soviets rather than China.

Maybe while you are creating a bigger Axis, have Turkey join if Moscow falls.
Click to expand...

The two year plan to get to Moscow is based on World War I experience. The Germans do not fully understand (and for that matter no one does) how mechanized forces in concentrated groups (the term panzer army doesn't exist yet either) are going to change warfare. While the Soviets and Germans have done some experimenting, the biggest movement of mechanized forces were into Czechslovakia and Austria, under peacetime conditions while the Soviets have only done exercises. The Spanish Civil War was too small a scale (in terms of the use of combined arms troops) to really give anyone a clear idea either.

So conservative planning but note this is still a year quicker than it took the Germans to threaten the Volga Region, Moscow and St Petersburg in the last war.

Everything continues as in OTL in Asia thus far.

I am not looking to make this an Axis Wank. But it might appear to be one in the early stages of the war.
 

galveston bay

pdf27 said:
Quick note: Goering was shot in the leg and/or groin during the Beer Hall Putsch, and I've seen a couple of sources suggest that the ongoing pain from this was the reason for his Opiate addiction. A simpler POD for you would be to have the bullet strike him in a way so as not to cause massive ongoing pain (i.e. not in the crotch), or miss completely.
Click to expand...

we will assume he was hit less painfully and I will make that edit. But he did seek treatment twice to kick the addiction in the 1920s, and he was successfully weaned off them during Nuremberg by medical staff.
 

pdf27

galveston bay said:
we will assume he was hit less painfully and I will make that edit. But he did seek treatment twice to kick the addiction in the 1920s, and he was successfully weaned off them during Nuremberg by medical staff.
Click to expand...
For Nuremberg he was a prisoner and they could control his access to Opiates. Putting him in a position of power in Germany makes it rather difficult to shut off his access to them - hence my suggestion of changing the bullet strike location :)
 

galveston bay

zert said:
Well Stalin haa a partial upper hand with his spies but his troops and not very effective. Will Russia try to gain any allies or support for the coming War?
Click to expand...

in OTL and in this one, the failure of the Anglo-French to stand up to Hitler at Munich completely disillusions Stalin on the effectiveness of the West. Now he is in a bind. The West can't be trusted and now the Germans seemed poised to strike at him. There is a certain amount of Soviet panic as to what to do next (in diplomatic terms)
 

ppaul16

pdf27 said:
For Nuremberg he was a prisoner and they could control his access to Opiates. Putting him in a position of power in Germany makes it rather difficult to shut off his access to them - hence my suggestion of changing the bullet strike location :)
Click to expand...

Lots of people wind up addicted to prescription drugs when they have some sort of injury and are initially prescribed them. Then eventually become addicted.

Almost killing himself in an accident caused by driving around all high could be a moment that made him think "I've got a serious problem and need to clean myself up" seems like a reasonable event that could happen to a person suffering from addiction.
 

thaddeus

Donor
what was remark of Il Duce about Goering? "an escaped mental patient"

would not envision a strong alliance, maybe Italy and Spain swap roles? (Goering at least claimed the idea for Operation Felix)
 

ppaul16

thaddeus said:
what was remark of Il Duce about Goering? "an escaped mental patient"

would not envision a strong alliance, maybe Italy and Spain swap roles? (Goering at least claimed the idea for Operation Felix)
Click to expand...

Not having a formal alliance with Italy would probably help Germany. If their goal is to focus on the USSR, being able to avoid deploying troops to Africa, Greece and the Balkans would outweigh the Italian contributions to invading the Soviet Union.
 
Glen

Glen

Moderator
pdf27 said:
Quick note: Goering was shot in the leg and/or groin during the Beer Hall Putsch, and I've seen a couple of sources suggest that the ongoing pain from this was the reason for his Opiate addiction. A simpler POD for you would be to have the bullet strike him in a way so as not to cause massive ongoing pain (i.e. not in the crotch), or miss completely.
Click to expand...

That would be a very elegant POD.
 
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