"God Ænd Minh Riht" An Anglo-Saxon England under the Godwinson house.

¿What will be the fate of wales?

  • Independent.

    Votes: 9 11.7%
  • Independent but with Anglish influence.

    Votes: 25 32.5%
  • Part of Angland.

    Votes: 43 55.8%

  • Total voters
    77
  • Poll closed .
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FECA4B37-0F2F-4925-AA32-4B46282CBD1C.jpeg

Ætheling Edgar as depicted in the TV series "The Empire of the Godwinson.
 
Chapter XXIX The Mongol Age II
Once the different mongol hordes that spawned with the death of the Great Khan stabilized and rallied their forces, this human deluge marched upon the world yet again in 1230, Georgia and the Principality of Armenia had the doubtful honor of being the first targets of the renewed mongol age, Orda Khan and his brothers broke the Christian defensive barrier at Khermanshah and Rezaiyeh, killing thousands upon thousands by the time they reached Yerevan, Yerevan was heavily reinforced and defended, the outskirts were full of traps and silent saboteurs, that performed acts like poisoning the food or the horses, eventually they were discovered by Orda himself, not without taking a toll in mongol forces, Yerevan was under siege for a year before it finally collapsed due to some deserters leaved the gates open at night.

Prince Alexander took measures to save his family ,like shipping them off to Sicily with the family of his wife, he lead a desperate attempt to defend the fleeing citizens of the city, until being killed by Orda in a duel not before extirping one of Orda's eyes.

After Yerevan fell the Principality of Armenia was pretty much dead like it’s prince, the mongol swiftly occupied Armenia, Georgian troops ambushed Batu Khan army in Artuin, they dismounted to rest, the Kartvelians emerged at night and wiped most of the best warriors quickly, stole horses and supplies and smashed Batu's head with a sledgehammer, the remaining mongols routed in a complete disorder while being harassed by the archery, and thus Armenia was avenged.

Orda Khan was enraged by what he saw as a coward and dishonorable action he swore vengeance over the kartvelians, the king knew what was about to happen so he prepared for what was coming, most of the richest nobles and burghers fled to the mountains with the royal family, through 1233 and 1237 the mongols struggled to conquer Georgia due to the mountains, the natives threw stones to the passing armies, killing hundreds and injuring even thousands, the main cities were occupied but the death toll reached a hike that rendered further efforts unsustainable, finally in 1239 the king signed a peace treaty with the mongols.

Once Georgia was pacified and put under mongol vassalage, the Great Khan tried to subjugate the Eastern Roman Empire, a envoy was sent to Constantinople to demand fealty and tribute to the Khan, this deeply offended Alexios V Komnennos, he killed the mongol emissary and sent his body to the governor of Persia.

The Great Khan, enraged, declared war upon the Empire in 1241, the Basileus mustered the Christian States of the Levant and the Ayubbid's of Mesopotamia, the first battle was fought on the Eastern Anatolian grasslands, previously razed and depleted of resources by the army, the locals, composed mostly by christian Turks, fought against the invasor with similar tactics, bogging down the mongols for some years.

Until 1243 the Turks proved to be enough to twart offensives, until Baiju Noyan finally defeated them in Romanopolis and Tephrike, at least 4,000 Turks died in each battle, Baiju then tried a more subtle approach by bribing the Beys of the turks, one of the most powerful among them was Ertrugul, who (secretly) despised the Greeks so much he eagerly switched allegiance, he spent a year and a half raiding imperial troops, camps and cities in central Anatolia.

Thebasion was occupied by Ertugrul after he fooled the garrison, he killed them by night and reclaimed the city in the name of the Khan, he then marched upon Trebizond and Kyotora, approximately 28,000 persons died in this hard battles during winter of 1245.

Finally a peace agreement was made when Manuel Palaiologos, Diacheiristés of Pontus and Duke of Nicaea was sent by his cousin the Basileus to stop this disaster, all land passed river Sáros and river Halys would be part of the Mongol Khanate, the Rhoman must pay 30,000 annual hyperpyrons to the Khan and send young men to feed the ever growing empire.

The Basileus was dethroned by his son after he practically lost all kind of rational behavior three years later.

For the crusader states and the Ayubbids these venture didn’t went well either…
 
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Once the different mongol hordes that spawned with the death of the Great Khan stabilized and rallied their forces, this human deluge marched upon the world yet again in 1230, Georgia and the Principality of Armenia had the doubtful honor of being the first targets of the renewed mongol age, Orda Khan and his brothers broke the Christian defensive barrier at Khermanshah and Rezaiyeh, killing thousands upon thousands by the time they reached Yerevan, Yerevan was heavily reinforced and defended, the outskirts were full of traps and silent saboteurs, that performed acts like poisoning the food or the horses, eventually they were discovered by Orda himself, not without taking a toll in mongol forces, Yerevan was under siege for a year before it finally collapsed due to some deserters leaved the gates open at night.

Prince Alexander took measures to save save his family like shipping them off to Sicily with the family of his wife, he lead a desperate attempt to defend the fleeing citizens of the city, until being killed by Orda in a duel not before extirping one of Orda's eyes.

After Yerevan fell the Principality of Armenia was pretty much dead like it’s prince, the mongol swiftly occupied Armenia, Georgian troops ambushed Batu Khan army in Artuin, they dismounted to rest, the Kartvelians emerged at night and wiped most of the best warriors quickly, stole horses and supplies and smashed Batu's head with a sledgehammer, the remaining mongols routed in a complete disorder while being harassed by the archery, and thus Armenia was avenged.

Orda Khan was enraged by what he saw as a coward and dishonorable action he swore vengeance over the kartvelians, the king knew what was about to happen so he prepared for what was coming, most of the richest nobles and burghers fled to the mountains with the royal family, through 1233 and 1237 the mongols struggled to conquer Georgia due to the mountains, the natives threw stones to the passing armies, killing hundreds and injuring even thousands, the main cities were occupied but the death toll reached a hike that rendered further efforts unsustainable, finally in 1239 the king signed a peace treaty with the mongols.

Once Georgia was pacified and put under mongol vassalage, the Great Khan tried to subjugate the Eastern Roman Empire, a envoy was sent to Constantinople to demand fealty and tribute to the Khan, this deeply offended Alexios V Komnennos, he killed the mongol emissary and sent his body to the governor of Persia.

The Great Khan, enraged, declared war upon the Empire in 1241, the Basileus mustered the Christian States of the Levant and the Ayubbid's of Mesopotamia, the first battle was fought on the Eastern Anatolian grasslands, previously razed and depleted of resources by the army, the locals, composed mostly by christian Turks, fought against the invasor with similar tactics, bogging down the mongols for some years.

Until 1243 the Turks proved to be enough to twart offensives, until Baiju Noyan finally defeated them in Romanopolis and Tephrike, at least 4,000 Turks died in each battle, Baiju then tried a more subtle approach by bribing the Beys of the turks, one of the most powerful among them was Ertrugul, who (secretly) despised the Greeks so much he eagerly switched allegiance, he spent a year and a half raiding imperial troops, camps and cities in central Anatolia.

Thebasion was occupied by Ertugrul after he fooled the garrison, he killed them by night and reclaimed the city in the name of the Khan, he then marched upon Trebizond and Kyotora, approximately 28,000 persons died in this hard battles during winter of 1245.

Finally a peace agreement was made when Manuel Palaiologos, Diacheiristés of Pontus and Duke of Nicaea was sent by his cousin the Basileus to stop this disaster, all land passed river Sáros and river Halys would be part of the Mongol Khanate, the Rhoman must pay 30,000 annual hyperpyrons to the Khan and send young men to feed the ever growing empire.

The Basileus was dethroned by his son after he practically lost all kind of rational behavior three years later.

For the crusader states and the Ayubbids these venture didn’t went well either…
Still a better outcome for Byzantium than being looted by Italians.
 
Chapter XXX La Guerre des Cent Ans V.
Chapter XXX

La Guerre des Cent Ans V.

Once enough time since the truce has passed and France recovered at least some level of military might and a refreshed yet fragile economy, at least compared with the Germanic behemoth he battled, who surpassed the weakened yet defiant Gaul, one of the conflicts France found itself involved was the Breton succession war, that was slowly ending, with Charles of Blois slowly but surely rooting the Montfort claimants, who lost the Imperial support after the Empire found Itself involved in several wars, including a crusade against the Finns and his involvement in the Sicilian War from 1364 to 1373

Auray was the beginning of the end for the Montfort claimants after their army was squashed, losing more than fifty percent of their troops, they were chased until Vannes, which suffered a staggering siege from 1364 to 1366, this finally concluded with the Blois victorious.

The formal hostilities resumed when King Charles launched an attack on the Kingdom of Arles on April of 1366, the city of Arles, capital of the kingdom was besieged along Marseille and most of Provence, after two years of siege Arles fell but Marseille stood firm, during this years the French also launched an offensive directed towards imperial occupied Flanders and Lorraine, the Iron Maiden of Normandy swept the imperial garrison with ease, the locals also took arms and rebelled, supporting her campaign, she took Bruges, Brussels and Gent in a year, but was defeated in the outskirts of Leuven losing more than 3,000 soldiers, crippling her ability to further attack into imperial land.

The southern front quickly devolved in a series of quick battles and skirmishes along the rivers and the forest of the area, Savoy was reached after the conquest of Grenoble, the imperial garrison ambushed the French in several occasions while they crossed the treacherous passes of the alps, after a direct confrontation near Chambéry, where Henry II, the Landgrave of Hesse, defeated Bertrand du Guesclin and Olivier de Clisson with his army, composed of 17,000 experienced troops, while the remains of the French army were battered, exhausted and lacking of reinforcements, of the 10,000 almost 2,000 died and were forced to flee from the germans, securing the gains made by 1369.

In 1371 King Charles V betrothed his son Charles with Ædelfrid Godwinson, daughter of the king Athelstan IV of Angland, he called him to arms almost immediately, a call he responded just in time to send troops for the great offensive Philip the Bold and Sancerre planed to break trough the German line and reach Germany proper, the planning and gathering of provisions took almost five years, finally this long and cruel war will come to an end sooner or later…
 
This thread has certainly got very active very quickly :)

Just a few thoughts back to 1066 - interesting to have no Norman invasion. The best TL for this is to have the August storm which scattered the initial invasion fleet be that bit fiercer.

No Norman invasion doesn't make Harold Godwinson secure. nor does it end any involvement with the Normans. Quite apart from Edgar Aetheling, William's widow is the siter of the Count of Flanders. Baldwin isn't an insignificant figure and the trade between England and Flanders not insignificant either. It depends whether economic or dynastic reality predominates.

A number of other knights from Brittany and Maine (and elsewhere on a promise of rich English land) would have been lost with the invasion fleet so there's an opportunity for Philip of France to assert some influence over the north and east.

Harold would need to get his youngest brother, Wulfnoth, back from Normandy and he would still have his brothers Gyrth and Leofwine as well as the likes of Edwin, Morcar and some of the other Earls. The Godwins are known for being a fractious and traitorous clan so there's every prospect of uprisings and outright civil war.

The there's Harold's various children. Godwin is the eldest (apparently) and in OTL fled to Dublin with the Conquest. Does he become the Heir Apparent - there's the small matter of the two Ediths - Swanneck and Mercia. How does this dysfunctional family survive victory in 1066?

Harold's sister, Edith, the widow of the Confessor, could be married off again (I suppose) but the Pope has excommunicated Harold and I doubt Anglo-Papal relations will improve with the Conquest aborted. That leaves a marriage in Scandinavia. Hardrada and the Norwegians may have been crushed at Stamford Bridge but the Danes are still players under Sweyn II - in OTL Sweyn II joined forces with Edgar Aetheling and attacked in 1069. Could the same happen in this TL with Edgar reasoning he could take the throne with a combination of a Danish Army and disloyal Godwins?

Everywhere I look with a successful Saxon TL, it ends up a mess - Harold II can hold it together until he dies but it seems likely he'll face several challenges and failure to defned any one plunges England into prolonged disorder and chaos.
 
This thread has certainly got very active very quickly :)

Just a few thoughts back to 1066 - interesting to have no Norman invasion. The best TL for this is to have the August storm which scattered the initial invasion fleet be that bit fiercer.

No Norman invasion doesn't make Harold Godwinson secure. nor does it end any involvement with the Normans. Quite apart from Edgar Aetheling, William's widow is the siter of the Count of Flanders. Baldwin isn't an insignificant figure and the trade between England and Flanders not insignificant either. It depends whether economic or dynastic reality predominates.

A number of other knights from Brittany and Maine (and elsewhere on a promise of rich English land) would have been lost with the invasion fleet so there's an opportunity for Philip of France to assert some influence over the north and east.

Harold would need to get his youngest brother, Wulfnoth, back from Normandy and he would still have his brothers Gyrth and Leofwine as well as the likes of Edwin, Morcar and some of the other Earls. The Godwins are known for being a fractious and traitorous clan so there's every prospect of uprisings and outright civil war.

The there's Harold's various children. Godwin is the eldest (apparently) and in OTL fled to Dublin with the Conquest. Does he become the Heir Apparent - there's the small matter of the two Ediths - Swanneck and Mercia. How does this dysfunctional family survive victory in 1066?

Harold's sister, Edith, the widow of the Confessor, could be married off again (I suppose) but the Pope has excommunicated Harold and I doubt Anglo-Papal relations will improve with the Conquest aborted. That leaves a marriage in Scandinavia. Hardrada and the Norwegians may have been crushed at Stamford Bridge but the Danes are still players under Sweyn II - in OTL Sweyn II joined forces with Edgar Aetheling and attacked in 1069. Could the same happen in this TL with Edgar reasoning he could take the throne with a combination of a Danish Army and disloyal Godwins?

Everywhere I look with a successful Saxon TL, it ends up a mess - Harold II can hold it together until he dies but it seems likely he'll face several challenges and failure to defned any one plunges England into prolonged disorder and chaos.
To be completely honest with you I didn’t knew a lot about England on that period, I been learning more about and there is some edits planned, but several personal issues had slowed the process, anyhow I appreciate this information you gave about the situation, I will address it in future edits.

Thanks for the information and the ideas, I will work on improving the TL, thank you very mucho for the feedback!
 
To be completely honest with you I didn’t knew a lot about England on that period, I been learning more about and there is some edits planned, but several personal issues had slowed the process, anyhow I appreciate this information you gave about the situation, I will address it in future edits.

Thanks for the information and the ideas, I will work on improving the TL, thank you very mucho for the feedback!
No problems - I have to say completely aborting the Norman invasion via a storm isn't something I've seen before but it's an original and interesting idea.

It's worth remembering England in 1066 wasn't an offshore backwater - it was arguably the richest country in north and west Europe having avoided internal warfare for many years. The Saxons had made good use of the fertile English soil, English silver was widely used as European currency and the wool trade with Flanders was thriving.

William's motives for conquering England were as much economic as anything else - with the economic power of England behind him, he could rival Philip of France and, linked by marriage to Flanders, could create an economic superpower in northern and western Europe.

His claim to the English throne was no less than Harold's though Edgar's claim was far better.

The key is how dynastic succession worked back then - as we saw in OTL, William's brothers fought each other and his sons would as well. The Godwins had basically taken over Saxon England from the Anglo-Normans who had supported Edward the Confessor whose refusal to have a child with Edith had seriously complicated the family's plan of a relatively peaceful takeover.

There had been frequent internal disputes within the family - the eldest son, Sweyn, had been exiled and while Harold had usurped the mantle of eldest son, the fact was he had brothers who would happily take that position if they could. A successful 1066 wouldn't therefore ensure peace in England - indeed, I'd argue the Godwins would sooner or later have dragged England into a new period of internal conflict opening the door (perhaps) for Edgar allied with the Danes to invade.

That would have looked like part of the cycle of events of the time with periods of Anglo-Saxon rule ending in a virtual collapse and the country falling wholly or partly under Danish control (this had been the case for much of the preceding two centuries). Edgar's sister, Margaret, who married Malcolm III in OTL, could be a pivotal figure if she could be married off to someone in the Danish royal family.

How this plays out is difficult but not impossible to imagine. Edgar lived until 1126 in OTL so we can imagine him as a long ruling king who eventually uses internal Danish issues (the Danish royals fought each other like everyone else - remember Harold and Harthacanute fought for supremacy after Canute's death) to asset full control over England by say 1100. He'd still have issues with Scotland and Wales but there would be no Harrying of the North nor an early intervention in Ireland.

No Anarchy and no Angevins either though the fall of Normandy might happen earlier.
 
Chapter XXXI The Mongol Age III
After the Anatolian defenses were overwhelmed and destroyed by the Mongolian armies, the Crusader States, and the Ayyubids we're next to suffer the full might of the Great Khan's armies. The other neighboring countries, the Ziyalid Sultanate in Egypt and the Nahjanid Sultanate of Yemen, while not involved in the conflict they were threatened by the war and it's possible spillovers, along with the disruption of formerly profitable trade rutes, now full of bandits and soldiers eager to become rich through plunder and mischief.

The Yemenites took a neutral stance, sending emissaries to the Khan, hoping to be on good terms with the Mongolian overlord while not engaging in a war that wasn't profitable. On the other hand, the Egyptian sultan was delighted by the prospect of weakened Crusader States, invading Damietta and Sinai in 1247.

The garrisons of these weak states couldn't hold back the Egyptian army for more than three months, despite Egypt still being weakened and impoverished after being defeated by the crusader states and the Fatimid implosion. During the siege of Damietta the Egyptians used everything mean and tactic they could to break the unyielding defenders, Damietta was a location of high strategic import since the city controls access to the Nile and since its fall to the crusader's hands, the Egyptian economy and territorial integrity was endangered, only protected by the truces and other events that distracted the Christians.

A Venetian merchant named Gianluca di Bianchi, personal friend, counselor, and supporter of the Egyptian sultan and enemy to the count of Damietta used his vast network of spies and saboteurs to bribe some of the defenders to let them in during the darkest hour of the night, this led to a swift victory of the Ziyalid armies since the defenders weren't expecting a betrayal, at least 5,000 persons died during the siege. He was excommunicated, his assets confiscated, his honors stricken and completely despised. No one knows the motives behind his action course.

Nevertheless, after Damietta was conquered the crusader army was destroyed in Nuweiba, then El Tor and El Arish, the county of Sinai was the poorest and weakest of them all, and it fell definitely in 1249.

The Mongolians continued with their unstoppable advance, taking Edessa in 1246 and most of the surrounding area, Mosul was the next big objective, this being in Mahometan Mesopotamia, this siege, however, was cruel and unusually large, and grueling for both of the involved, it lasted from 1246 to 1254, almost 45,000 Mongol and vassal states troops died in this staggering siege, slowing severely the Mongol advance, while the city lost sixty percent of its population, Hulagu Khan, Baiju Noyan and Ariq Böke we're the principal leaders of the Mongolian army.

Ariq was the leader of the Syrian campaign, Baiju Noyan aimed for the kingdom of Jerusalem and Hulagu Khan along with Kitbuqa Noyan and the vassal kings of Georgia and Armenia, among others, invaded Mesopotamia.

Baiju, after taking Edessa, continued its march to Damascus, he was constantly attacked by Kurdish and Greek mercenaries, Assyrian auxiliaries, and the armies of the Duke, armies that grew in number with volunteers from all over the Christendom.

He besieged Raqqa and Aleppo, trying to deal a fatal blow to Syria, Raqqa fell in 1248, but Aleppo endured two more years until the walls crumbled after an earthquake and the city turned into a chaotic nightmare after a huge fire broke out, Hama, Salamiyah and Al-Suqaylabiyah fell few months later, leaving a free way to Homs, plunders, rapes and general abuses were common. Ariq was confident that his victory would be total and the Syrians and Jerusalemites alike would kneel and bow before the Khan once Homs was razed and Damascus was conquered, but he was so wrong, the Syrians mustered a massive army, more than a hundred thousand men, eager to kill the invaders and secure a better tomorrow for their families. The battle took place in the fifteenth day of September of 1251.

The battle that ensued is wrapped in mysticism and legend, some accountants claimed that the earth itself convulsed and opened its maws, swallowing the invaders, while an earthquake is present in both accounts, there is almost no proof of the earth devouring the Mongol army. What's real is that the horses of the Mongolians died or fell to the ground during the charge, this was caused by poisoning, duty carried by an unknown group, possibly a soldier from one of the client states.

Ariq and Baiju Noyan, who needed a safe pace to Jerusalem, were present, the battle went horribly for the Mongols, their weapons broke, their arrows didn't fly towards it target neither dealt great damage to them and Ariq's overconfident behavior proved to be one of the factors that led his men to an early grave beside sabotage. Ariq was vanquished by Prince Philip Plantagenet, the grandson of Richard Lionheart, who took his head as trophy, after a severe battering Baiju managed to retreat safely, while a good chunk of his army stayed behind to avoid attacks from the rear and further demoralization, he managed to flee in an orderly way instead of routing.

He retreated to Aleppo, calling reinforcements from the Turkish Bey, Ertrugul, he marched to Syria with an army of 34,000 men, as a way to demonstrate his fealty to the Great Khan, despite being Christian himself.

In Mesopotamia, however, the war went satisfactorily for the Mongols, by 1258 Baghdad, the wealthy, magnificent, and great city was in the grasp of the Mongols, Sultan Turanshah remained in the city, hoping for a great victory that would make the barbarians flee and be broke by his might, but that didn't happen, he merely had 50,000 thousand men, while the Mongolian one was at least three times its size.

After resisting heroically for thirteen days, Baghdad fell on the tenth day of February of 1258, Baghdad was sacked, the centers of learning and library were burnt down, the city was ravaged, set on fire and its inhabitants slaughtered, the once center of the Islamic world was now a ruin, unrecognizable from its glories of yore, Turanshah was slain and his family fled, that day, Baghdad was no more than ash and ruins, a shade of her former glory...
 
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Special Chapter I The Ætheling Plot
Special Chapter I.

The Ætheling Plot.

Even though the Norman threat was destroyed and in disarray since the expiration of the Norman duke, William, and his knights and soldiers were swallowed along with him to the depths of the sea or an early grave, some of the local nobles and clergymen doubted and defied the legitimacy of Harold Godwinson as King of Angland, among them, was Edgar, called the Ætheling, who gathered support from many members of the Witan and the ecclesiastical hierarchy said support from the Church came, although indirectly, from the Roman pontiff itself. Among these plotters two of King Harold's brothers were present, Wulfnoth and Sweyn.

These scheming deviants amassed funds, supplies, men, and equipment, so they could be prepared for the inevitable conflagration of the control of Angland, this meticulous and detailed plan, being almost ready by the last months of 1073, another measure taken by the rebels was to rekindle and strengthen their relationship with the Danish house of Estridsen, so they could support Edgar's gamble for the crown, the overall strategy for his takeover consisted of gaining as much terrain he could take before the arrival of the king's troops, targeting locations of great economic and political significance, forcing the royal armies into chokeholds, ambushes, and open field battles where they lacked the numerical advantage, draining the state coffers in the process, while the Danes served as both the shock troopers and the harassing element.

Given the chance to come to fruition, these plans would be proven to be masterful and would reach the objective with relative ease. Sadly for the traitors, fortune forfeited them, since one of the lowest ranking and more incompetent accidentally announced the plot while drunk during a feast the king held. The King was infuriated by such said treachery, he expected a betrayal from some of his brothers, yet this didn't avoid his rage.

Bands of armed men rushed through the entire kingdom, arresting the heads of the conspiracy, searching for the rebel's troops and supplies. Despite being weakened and their cohesion broken, the rebels managed to hold out some time, until the Danish came, the outsiders came to Angland by March of 1074, they landed in East Anglia, taking Bedanfordscir and making a quick advance towards Grantbridgescire, a larger portion of the army marched north towards York.

Edgar found himself in Northumbria, where he gathered men to launch an attack on York, seizing control of northern Angland, and then do a final offensive towards Mercia and then the Anglish heartland, sadly for him the earl of Mercia sided with the king, the combined royal and Mercian forces advanced towards York, the following battle was bloody and long, the huscarls of the king proved decisive to break through the rebel rear, while the Mercians and the troops of his brothers flooded the battlefield. Once the pretender’s army was defeated and its leaders arrested, the throne of Angland was secured for the Godwinson lineage.

Edgar and most of his followers were executed and their wealth and land expropriated, these two goods were gifted to loyal nobles an to his faithful siblings, the rest of his reign would be one of recovery, commerce, and relative peace.
 
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