Go North, Young Man: The Great Canada
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A great timeline, but would like to question the RCN deployment of ships on 26/12/04? That is boxing day. Short of war/peacekeeping, what nation has their ships deployed over Christmas half way around the world. The ADF close-up for 6 weeks over Dec-Jan (summer) and go on leave, with very minimal manning on hand to keep things slowly ticking over.
The tsunami was in Australia's backyard, and it took over a week for them to get major assets into Indonesia, as everyone had to be recalled from leave, and the ships had to be provisioned. Even getting air resupply took 48hrs, for the same reasons.
Just this year, even though ADF is now prepared and has contingencies in place over the summer season for varying high risk weather events, it still took them 24-36 hours to dispatch HMAS Canberra and attachments to go to assist Fuji after they were hit by a cyclone.
Just my 2 cents worth
I like that approach. 😎
Question comes to mind: wouldn't this PRC, faced with such bad PR, do even more than OTL to improve relations with (or gain leverage over...) countries in Africa?
They try but the same problem appears. Most of the influential countries in Africa are Commonwealth and have Central Commonwealth status as an end goal, so the PRC's options are somewhat limited there as well. Simply put, the PRC really needs to do some fence-mending, and while it takes them a while to figure it out, they do end up doing so.
Fair criticisms, but my justification was that Vimy Ridge was barely a year into commission and her counterparts in Australia (the Canberra class) were fitting out, so Canada's naval units were in Australia to show the flag and help give the Australians some experience on operating from such a vessel before they get their hands on their own. (The Vimy Ridge is a stretched OTL Canberra class, itself a derivative of the Spanish Juan Carlos I, though ITTL is the result of a project between the Commonwealth nations for an amphibious assault vessel.) Hence, they were visiting down under and the Australians were working with it, and the tsunami happened, thus the fleet involves books it up to Indonesia to try to help.
Kind of inspired by our conversations about the various British industrial concerns and their respective histories. Rest assured that things for the Brits in that regard are rather different.... 🙂
I should probably point out after the last chapter (and knowing the next one) how the Royal Canadian Navy is divided up in this world, how it operates and what it's primary strategic goals are.
In normal times, the Navy is controlled from the Canadian Admiralty, which gets strategic direction from Ottawa but operationally is based out of the fleet bases at Halifax and Shearwater in Nova Scotia and Shearwater and Esquimault and Everett in British Columbia, as well as naval air bases. The Navy is divided into the Atlantic, Pacific and Arctic Fleets, with the Arctic Fleet being mostly a icebreaker, submarine and patrol aircraft command and the other two centered arpund the three carrier groups Canada has.
The Arctic Fleet is primarily defensive and exploratory of its own territory, the fleet's operations being centered on the Navy's three massive Robert Stanfield-class Polar 8 nuclear-powered armed icebreakers, along with the other Arctic Patrol Ships. Canada's fleet of nuclear submarines generally either patrols in the Arctic with other vessels or operates with the Navy's carrier groups, though the cost of the nuclear submarines is leading the Canadian Navy to consider a fleet of conventionally-powered submarines to improve coverage in the area at a lower cost, as well as the large fleet of both turboprop and pure jet patrol aircraft and the fleet of Canadair CL-415SR search and rescue aircraft, along with a number of V-22 Osprey tiltrotors, provide effective coverage of the region. In normal service the Icebreakers sail between Iqaluit, Churchill, Naujaat and Tuktoyaktuk, all of which now have docks and facilities big enough for all but the most heavy work on the ships, and all have naval air bases. The force combines regularly with the Canadian Rangers, which as a result of the growing economic activity of the North and forces expansion now are equipped with much newer equipment, including Diemaco assault rifles and Colt Canada bolt-action rifles chambered in .338 Lapua rounds, dedicated cold weather gear including gloves and goggles, tactical radios and GPS units, and who regularly sail with and disembark from Arctic Fleet units.
The Pacific Fleet currently has the two carriers compared to the Atlantic Fleet's one, though part of that is the giant shipyards in North Vancouver and Bremerton, British Columbia, that are capable of dry-docking any RCN vessel. The one carrier on the Atlantic side is joined by the majority of the amphibious fleet, which is normally based out of Shearwater or the RCN's large bases at West Caicos or Kingston in the Caribbean. Roughly 2/3 of the RCN surface assets are normally assigned to work within carrier and assault group battle groups, with the Province-class air defense cruisers and Eagle-class destroyers doing the most carrier-guarding work, while the Halifax and Ottawa class frigates do many of the other duties. The Atlantic fleet, whose responsibility includes the Caribbean and the Mediterranean, tend to see more surface fleet operations.
The aircraft of the Navy are controlled by its Fleet Air Arm, which includes squadrons for the carriers and the amphibious vessels as well and land based patrol, search and rescue and command and control aircraft, as well as some aircraft for utility and support purposes. The Royal Canadian Air Force's interceptor and maritime strike units are under RCAF command and control but by necessity work more with the RCN than other units, a trait shared by the RCAF's fleet of aerial refueling tankers. The carrier fleet in the early post-war and a sizable portion of the Cold War era focused on sea denial and anti-submarine operations, but with the entry into the fleet of VS-145 Poseidon anti-submarine tiltwing in the 1980s this changed to a more air defense and strike role, particularly with the Panavia Tornado NAV joining the fleet in the 1980s and the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet in the 1990s. The long range of the Tornado and the multirole abilities of the Super Hornet changed many of the jobs of the carrier fleet, and the larger size and long range of the Poseidon has been factored into the larger hangars and landing decks and the Beartrap systems of new RCN surface vessels starting from the Fraser-class destroyers built during the 1980s.
In normal times, the Navy is controlled from the Canadian Admiralty, which gets strategic direction from Ottawa but operationally is based out of the fleet bases at Halifax and Shearwater in Nova Scotia and Shearwater and Esquimault and Everett in British Columbia, as well as naval air bases. The Navy is divided into the Atlantic, Pacific and Arctic Fleets, with the Arctic Fleet being mostly a icebreaker, submarine and patrol aircraft command and the other two centered arpund the three carrier groups Canada has.
The Arctic Fleet is primarily defensive and exploratory of its own territory, the fleet's operations being centered on the Navy's three massive Robert Stanfield-class Polar 8 nuclear-powered armed icebreakers, along with the other Arctic Patrol Ships. Canada's fleet of nuclear submarines generally either patrols in the Arctic with other vessels or operates with the Navy's carrier groups, though the cost of the nuclear submarines is leading the Canadian Navy to consider a fleet of conventionally-powered submarines to improve coverage in the area at a lower cost, as well as the large fleet of both turboprop and pure jet patrol aircraft and the fleet of Canadair CL-415SR search and rescue aircraft, along with a number of V-22 Osprey tiltrotors, provide effective coverage of the region. In normal service the Icebreakers sail between Iqaluit, Churchill, Naujaat and Tuktoyaktuk, all of which now have docks and facilities big enough for all but the most heavy work on the ships, and all have naval air bases. The force combines regularly with the Canadian Rangers, which as a result of the growing economic activity of the North and forces expansion now are equipped with much newer equipment, including Diemaco assault rifles and Colt Canada bolt-action rifles chambered in .338 Lapua rounds, dedicated cold weather gear including gloves and goggles, tactical radios and GPS units, and who regularly sail with and disembark from Arctic Fleet units.
The Pacific Fleet currently has the two carriers compared to the Atlantic Fleet's one, though part of that is the giant shipyards in North Vancouver and Bremerton, British Columbia, that are capable of dry-docking any RCN vessel. The one carrier on the Atlantic side is joined by the majority of the amphibious fleet, which is normally based out of Shearwater or the RCN's large bases at West Caicos or Kingston in the Caribbean. Roughly 2/3 of the RCN surface assets are normally assigned to work within carrier and assault group battle groups, with the Province-class air defense cruisers and Eagle-class destroyers doing the most carrier-guarding work, while the Halifax and Ottawa class frigates do many of the other duties. The Atlantic fleet, whose responsibility includes the Caribbean and the Mediterranean, tend to see more surface fleet operations.
The aircraft of the Navy are controlled by its Fleet Air Arm, which includes squadrons for the carriers and the amphibious vessels as well and land based patrol, search and rescue and command and control aircraft, as well as some aircraft for utility and support purposes. The Royal Canadian Air Force's interceptor and maritime strike units are under RCAF command and control but by necessity work more with the RCN than other units, a trait shared by the RCAF's fleet of aerial refueling tankers. The carrier fleet in the early post-war and a sizable portion of the Cold War era focused on sea denial and anti-submarine operations, but with the entry into the fleet of VS-145 Poseidon anti-submarine tiltwing in the 1980s this changed to a more air defense and strike role, particularly with the Panavia Tornado NAV joining the fleet in the 1980s and the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet in the 1990s. The long range of the Tornado and the multirole abilities of the Super Hornet changed many of the jobs of the carrier fleet, and the larger size and long range of the Poseidon has been factored into the larger hangars and landing decks and the Beartrap systems of new RCN surface vessels starting from the Fraser-class destroyers built during the 1980s.
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It's so great to see this Story continue. Thanks for all the great work. I would love a full list of the RCN's Ships.
mortonofski
Donor
Great to see this continue! I did a reread a few weeks back as it's one of my favourite alt-histories - always nice to see a hopeful world 
One question for @TheMann - would you be open to indexing the chapters for easier reading?
One question for @TheMann - would you be open to indexing the chapters for easier reading?I probably should, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. 🙂Great to see this continue! I did a reread a few weeks back as it's one of my favourite alt-histories - always nice to see a hopeful world
I've only three words for you:
YANKEE
ECHO
SIERRA
GNYM!Canada will have to step in and help finance the Rose Garden Project, then. Though I suspect Canadian firms will actually jump at that opportunity - if OTL shows anything, it is that a well-managed Hong Kong airport can be a massive moneymaker (same goes for container ports).
The thought of taking a Canadian-made Airport Express train along a Canadian-financed Tsing Ma Bridge and take an Air Canada flight from a Canadian-built Hong Kong International Airport while sipping a Timmy's iced cappuccino is -
[drops dead from too much Canada]
I have no doubt China will try, but GNYM!Canada (and the wider Commonwealth) would've beaten them to it, due to that little kerfuffle called Rwanda (or rather, the timely Canadian-led intervention).
And I second this.
Marc A
Hahaha. 🙂 The Commonwealth did indeed finance the Rose Garden Project, particularly the British, who partly advanced it to include places for the RN and RAF to have Hong Kong stations. (OOC: I didn't put this down because I have no idea where they would go best.) Hong Kong is as of 2010 planning a suitable-size nuclear power station for electricity and graphene desalinization water treatment plants to provide water, and have been doing their level best to both work with the PRC's more-liberal portions while relying on help from others in the region. Food primarily comes from Australia, Taiwan or Japan, fuel from Canada. It's harder for Hong Kongers with China next door being less friendly, but they're making it work. China isn't too pleased about Hong Kong's status, but fears the economic consequences of actions against Hong Kong enough that they aren't keen on pushing too hard.
Well, the Tsing Ma Bridge was indeed designed by the Canadian Bridge Company though mostly built with British money (see the above paragraph), Pacific Car and Engineering is one of the builders of Hong Kong's subway rolling stock (though it is mostly a Kawasaki Heavy Industries design, but it uses Canadian-made Western Electric traction motors) and Air Canada does of course fly to Hong Kong. They even do it with Bombardier and Vickers airliners, too. 😎 As far as Tim's Iced Capps go, I'll let you decide that one....
One of the things the Hong Kong Crisis, Cape Town Mission, Operation Messiah and the War in Afghanistan has done for the United Kingdom is convince them of the utility of a fleet that can sail the seven seas, and they here (thanks in part of the better economic management and plenty of Commonwealth help) have more than enough economic muscle to make it happen. Britain is one of the world's centers of aerospace engineering (and the Skylon proves just how great their capabilities are) and high-tech engineering in general, as well as global finance and commerce, and the viewpoint of Britain in this world is that such economic might can only be sustained through the ability to support their friends wherever their help may be needed, and it shows in the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force.
The RAF operates a sizable fleet of Vickers / Rockwell B-1 Lancer bombers (Canada and Britain rescued this project from extinction as a result of changing politics in America in the 1980s, effectively using them to replace the Avro Vulcan and Handley-Page Victor in Commonwealth service) and Vickers VC-16 and VC-24 aerial refueling tankers, allowing the RAF to have a long reach, but the Royal Navy is still immensely powerful as well - three aircraft carriers, a battleship, fifteen cruisers (Type 45s with longer cruiser-style hulls, 155mm guns on each end and three sets of Mark 41 VLS units as opposed to Aster missiles), a complete amphibious fleet, a sizable collection of both nuclear and diesel-electric (with AIP systems) submarines and everything needed to back that up. The carriers (for them as well as Canada and Australia) will be replaced in the 2020s. The Royal Navy tends to stay closer to Commonwealth areas, but then again that could be just about anywhere on the oceans....
Basically true, and Rwanda and the Cape Town Mission more or less eliminated the viewpoint in much of Africa that the Commonwealth was just a system of colonialism by a different name. South Africa, Botswana and Namibia will reach Central Commonwealth status by the mid-2020s, and Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, Zimbabwe and Uganda, as well as Nigeria, have eyes on bigger influence in the Commonwealth. China is making inroads with many of these nations, but in modern times the Central Commonwealth nations have been good friends to Africa, and they are effectively forcing both Paris and Washington to play nice, because if they don't the African nations turn around and say "You know, we can always work with these guys instead...." and between the money available in the Central Commonwealth nations and India, they can easily make such threats happen, and nobody in London, Ottawa, Canberra, New Delhi or anywhere else in the Commonwealth minds their connections being used in such a way....
Post #516 on Page 26 lists all of the RCN vessels operating as of 2017. New carriers, a second destroyer class and diesel-electric submarines will be 2020s additions. Hope that helps, gentlemen. 🙂
I'm going to plagiarize my story-in-progress and help you out on that.
1. Chek Lap Kok is still going to be the best spot for a new airport given OTL and TTL constraints, though I should add that expanding HKIA to three runways a la OTL would be extra difficult due to congested airspace above the Pearl River Delta (it's one of the many reasons why the OTL Third Runway project had so much opposition).
2. If the Commonwealth militaries do wish to establish a (semi?) permanent presence in Hong Kong, existing naval and air force bases will not cut it (ironically you don't need much in the way of ground forces - it's not as if they can hold the PLA for long if the boys in Type 07 are to come by for an unfriendly visit).
a) the eastern shores of Junk Bay, where OTL Tseung Kwan O Industrial Estate and LOHAS Park are located, should serve as a good port: with enough compensation, occupants of the former can be moved, and the latter did not exist at the time. Of course that means the Southeast New Territories Landfill will never happen (opened in 1994 IOTL), and we'll have to do something about all the trash that would've gone in there...
[aerial photos of the area to be added later]
b) given its extremely dense urban surroundings, Kai Tak is too dangerous for large-scale fixed-wing aircraft operations. I suggest redeveloping the apron areas and leave the 13/31 runway open for a RN/RAF join helicopter base (also FUCK the Kai Tak Cruise Terminal to the deepest and iciest Canadian hell)
The old desalinization plant at Lok On Pai can be brought back to service with massive upgrades, so that's one thing taken care of.
I'm assuming nuke plants are way safer ITTL, though I'm still having troubles thinking of some out-of-the-way place to make sure it's as close to 100% safe as can be (I want to say Soko Islands, but it's near the habitat of Chinese white dolphins).
And yes, the food thing. It's a common OTL misconception that we'd starve without imports from China. I mean sure, it would't be as fresh, but a lot of pork actually comes from Brazil, and rice from Thailand, so as long as the Commonwealth navies and air forces can keep LOCs open, we're good.
Score one for the subway nerds (I know a few haha).
Also Ice Capps are my fondest high school memories, so yeah
My thoughts exactly. Though to be completely fair, Xi Jinping may never take power ITTL, and there may not be a Belt and Road Initiative at all (the Greater Bay Area is of course stillborn due to Hong Kong staying British and Macau simply doesn't have the infrastructure to support that).
Now that I think of it, a Sino-Russian Great Game centered around the Central Asia-stans just might happen...
Marc A
My understanding is that this is Canada plus OTL Washington State north of the Columbia River. Think that’s right?
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