Germany starts WW3 scenario

This scenario occurs during the midst of the Cold War. Once again, as with the other two World Wars, Germany starts the third. Just as before, twenty years pass between the end of WWII and this new World War. And once again, Fascists took over the nation.

The question here is what would your version of this scenario play out?
 
You'd think after two disastrous world wars, millions of their citizens dead and immense destruction wrought upon their land, they would be reluctant to start a third world war.
 
Any Germany with post-1945 POD is not going to start WW3. It has not capacy, not will and very well learn that it has not chances to fight whole world. And it wouldn't get even any allies. This is just pure ASB.

Only way how Germany would begin WW3 is that Axis win WW3 and then during Axis-Democracies Cold War some insane führer decide launch nuclear warheads towards Britain and USA.
 
There is no way Germany, whether West or East, would be allowed to become Fascist during the Cold War. It would've been stamped out immediately, whether domestically or through a NATO or Warsaw Pact invasion. The Communists had a tight grip over East Germany anyway, while in West Germany, Nazism was banned.
 
... as said:
A WW 3 started IN or OVER Germany ... there were some situations it could have happened.​

A WW 3 started BY Germany with a PoD post 1945 ... IMHO ASB.
... but I'm prepared to read about your idea of such thing to happen, dear @Archienelson .
 
A military dictatorship comes to power in FRG 1972 , in order to garner support from the population, they adopt a increasingly hawkish stance against the communists in the east. bellicose statements by the military leadership is matched by aggressive moves against Polish and Soviet naval / air forces in and over the Baltic.
A marineflieger aircraft is shoot down after it buzzes a polish navy Corvette. Nearby German naval ship retaliate by ramming the polish vessel which leads to many fatalities .
As tensions mount between the two countries, the pressure is on the respective big brothers to intervene.DDR is clearly not very keen to support the Polish here and Soviets are also pressuring the
Polish to show restraint.
Mutiny on a polish frigate results in it bombarding a FRG naval outpost , damage is light but marineflieger retaliates by air attacks on polish naval base , Soviets are killed….
The crisis escalated into ww3
 

Garrison

Donor
This scenario occurs during the midst of the Cold War. Once again, as with the other two World Wars, Germany starts the third. Just as before, twenty years pass between the end of WWII and this new World War. And once again, Fascists took over the nation.

The question here is what would your version of this scenario play out?
The idea of trying to create some sort of Fourth Reich looking to launch another war was popular in the 60s in all manner of spy themed TV shows (The Avengers, Mission Impossible, The Champions) and its turned up a few times in more recent fiction, but that's just it, its pure fiction. The German people weren't exactly enthusiastic for war in 1939, the idea that after two disasters they would conclude 'third time's the charm' is farfetched.
The idea of some secret Nazi cabal trying to start a war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact might seem more plausible but that's purely superficial. In any hot war Germany is going to be the frontline and the first use of tactical nukes is going to be on their soil. This also assumes that you buy into the idea of the Nazis as diabolical geniuses rather than a bunch of kleptocratic gamblers who only acquired power through a chain of unlikely circumstances.
 
A military dictatorship comes to power in FRG 1972 , in order to garner support from the population, they adopt a increasingly hawkish stance against the communists in the east. bellicose statements by the military leadership is matched by aggressive moves against Polish and Soviet naval / air forces in and over the Baltic.
A marineflieger aircraft is shoot down after it buzzes a polish navy Corvette. Nearby German naval ship retaliate by ramming the polish vessel which leads to many fatalities .
As tensions mount between the two countries, the pressure is on the respective big brothers to intervene.DDR is clearly not very keen to support the Polish here and Soviets are also pressuring the
Polish to show restraint.
Mutiny on a polish frigate results in it bombarding a FRG naval outpost , damage is light but marineflieger retaliates by air attacks on polish naval base , Soviets are killed….
The crisis escalated into ww3

How and why Bundeswehr even would take power? German civilian population nor NATO wouldn't accept that. And NATO wouldn't allow Germany taking aggressive policy even against minor WarPac nation. And how West Germany even would reach Polish territory since DDR is between and Soviet navy wouldn't allow German navy operate anywhere near of Polish territorial waters. And both sides are not going to start WW3. Americans and Soviets would do everything de-escalating things. And I don't believe that even Germans would want new world war since they already faced two devastating world wars and last one ended lesser than thirty years ago.

The idea of trying to create some sort of Fourth Reich looking to launch another war was popular in the 60s in all manner of spy themed TV shows (The Avengers, Mission Impossible, The Champions) and its turned up a few times in more recent fiction, but that's just it, its pure fiction. The German people weren't exactly enthusiastic for war in 1939, the idea that after two disasters they would conclude 'third time's the charm' is farfetched.
The idea of some secret Nazi cabal trying to start a war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact might seem more plausible but that's purely superficial. In any hot war Germany is going to be the frontline and the first use of tactical nukes is going to be on their soil. This also assumes that you buy into the idea of the Nazis as diabolical geniuses rather than a bunch of kleptocratic gamblers who only acquired power through a chain of unlikely circumstances.

Some nazi cabal would be bit more likely but it is too indeed really unlikely. And Germany would be that which would suffer from WW3 most after Soviet Union itself.
 
Power struggle in Moscow after Stalin's death in 1953 goes on longer, and Soviet leadership's grip on power seems to be slackening. Meanwhile the East German uprising escalates. Adenauer's government sees a chance for German reunion...
Of course, this is not "Germany against the world", it's Germany as a spearhead of NATO's rollback against Communism.
 
Power struggle in Moscow after Stalin's death in 1953 goes on longer, and Soviet leadership's grip on power seems to be slackening. Meanwhile the East German uprising escalates. Adenauer's government sees a chance for German reunion...
Of course, this is not "Germany against the world", it's Germany as a spearhead of NATO's rollback against Communism.
It's not going to be much of a spearhead considering the Bundeswehr wasn't re-established until 1955.
 
Well...
My guess is, that if we wanted such scenario to happen, we would need to give Germany different reasons to do so, rather than totalitarian ones. And I think that these reasons would be being fed up by a propaganda "We were not nazis". It's present within OTL as well: the death camps are suddenly no longer called "german", but in many cases they are referred to as "polish", World War 2 is said to be started not by the Germans but by some nation-less nazis... Heck, even in today's popculture we have the MCU in which it is said that "Germany was the first country conquered by the nazis"... A historical revisionism at its finest.

Why am I writing it? Because we could assume that such propaganda within West Germany could lead to a belief that "Poles were nazis, not us, and they dare to occupy our eastern lands?". In OTL for decades after ww2 West Germany refused to recognize the new borders and kept treating them as german, whether within the educational atlases...
2021_03_06_653324_63fa18.jpg


...or in the weather programs.
weather-forecast-for-west-germany-program-ii-zdf-of-the-v0-jk3blx7qkhlb1.png


So if we want West Germany to start ww3, it could be over this. Not for national socialism, but rather in a desire to cut itself out of it by throwing the responsibilities upon the "evil nazi Poles". In OTL only on 7 December 1970 the government of West Germany recognized the borders of postwar Poland. And even then, it had to wait to be ratified until 14 November 1990.
 
You'd think after two disastrous world wars, millions of their citizens dead and immense destruction wrought upon their land, they would be reluctant to start a third world war.
there's always going to be someone there who would be willing to finish what the reich had started.
 
Would the scenario Bruder Gegen Bruder from Wargame: European Escalation or the scenario from Regiments count as “Germany starting WW3”?

In both cases, it’s a local conflict between East and WestGermany that rapidly spirals.
 
From the US and British side there were... let's say trepidations in regards to the first West German election at the possibility of the leftists (SPD) winning, with a similar trend in Italy and France. I believe there were some ideas floated to prop up the rightist parties to deny the SPD any victory, but they eventually supported the CDU.

In addition to that, there was the rumor (which was probably false or barely meaningful) of the Soviets funding the Neo-Nazi and Fascist parties to destabilize the West German government, obviously they would not want said parties to win but to be a thorn in the West Germany's side if the rumor was true.

A Nazi cabal seems like an interesting idea, and a possible one to attempt to push one direction or another with enough support from ideologically inclined industrialists.

Combine these three in a series of unlikely but somewhat possible events where the Fascists once again roll a few sixes and you might end up with a rightist government instead of the possible leftist one. With varying levels of influence from the left and center parties. However, I don't believe a Nazi or a bona-fide Fascist party would be able to win and keep their spoils, those Fascists in power would be more similar to either Franco or Salazar, inclined towards Fascist Corporatism or Neo-Corporatism, which remained somewhat popular in the post war world.

I don't think it is a stretch to imagine them tolerating a Salazar-esque West Germany. Refusing to accept the election results, or outright oust the Corporatists from power would be damaging to the image of the US and her allies, something that the horrified (at the election results) Soviets would gleefully use to turn other countries against the so called democratic bastion.

And the Soviets are the ones who will probably push towards escalation following said election. A Berlin Crisis happening sooner maybe? I admit that after this point I am unsure how the war would start at the hands of Germany, either West or East. I am inclined to say through funding of anti Soviet agitation and outright partisan assassination across the border by the West German government, or support to all resistance fighters (as they were still active up to the 60s throughout Eastern Europe) + Stalin's ideological narrative of an inevitable Capitalist Communist confrontation.

(For the CDU to.. not win the election could perhaps be attributed to worse leadership and campaigning? The Neo-Corporatist members joining the other right parties while the catholic monarchists joining the Bavarian party? People with a better understanding of German post war politics could probably answer this. - I know that support for the monarchy was low even during Weimar, but at the very least, in Bavaria there was a good amount of support so it is an avenue to spread the vote -)

It is perhaps a bit more grounded in reality from the other proposals but it would require some sixes one after the other, not impossible but unlike. Though that's another facet of AH, leaning to the more chaotic and unpredictable side of history but not outright going into the wacky corner.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
A military dictatorship comes to power in FRG 1972 , in order to garner support from the population, they adopt a increasingly hawkish stance against the communists in the east. bellicose statements by the military leadership is matched by aggressive moves against Polish and Soviet naval / air forces in and over the Baltic.
A marineflieger aircraft is shoot down after it buzzes a polish navy Corvette. Nearby German naval ship retaliate by ramming the polish vessel which leads to many fatalities .
As tensions mount between the two countries, the pressure is on the respective big brothers to intervene.DDR is clearly not very keen to support the Polish here and Soviets are also pressuring the
Polish to show restraint.
Mutiny on a polish frigate results in it bombarding a FRG naval outpost , damage is light but marineflieger retaliates by air attacks on polish naval base , Soviets are killed….
The crisis escalated into ww3
Zero chance. Beyond ASB

SACEUR et al would stop punch it before the Soviets decided the last was was going to BE the last time and blew through the Fulda Gap.
 
A military dictatorship comes to power in FRG 1972
NATO forces inside Germany intervene and restore democracy. Even if the Americans were willing to stand aside and allow the militarists to take over (unlikely, even Nixon's not that daft)) neither Britain or France would. The men running Europe's governments either fought in WWII or survived German occupation of their countries. Their fathers survived WWI. They're not going to take any chance of Germany starting round 3.
 
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