French Involvement in ACW

[Clout]

I've tried searching for this but never really found anything so thought I would just come and ask it.

What would it take for France to get involved in ACW. There are whole posts and arguements dedicated to British involvement in ACW but nothing about France. I don't mean having France tagging along with Britain and joining in with some European campain again the USA but rather them on their own recognising the CSA and sending troops to help.

During this time France were messing around in Mexico and must have been aware that if the US won then they would do something about France's involvement in Mexico as it was against the Monroe Doctrine.

 

[Faralis]

There is no way in hell France would intervene in ACW without the Brits, it could piss them instead and Nappy would not want that, no sir ...

 

[ranoncles]

Napoleon III held the staunch belief that he had to prevent a war against England at all costs as that was what had humbled his uncle in the end.

Still, that didn't stop him from engaging in wars against Austria and later Prussia or meddling in Mexico after England withdrew from the initial punitive raid.

Napoleon III started his Mexican adventure in the assumption that the country was rich (in silver and other resources) and that it contained a large Catholic population in favour of the French intervention. Not unlike the Americans being misled by Iraqi exiles in our time, the French were misled by Catholic upper class Mexicans who wanted Juarez and his anti-Catholic policies ousted.

Had these presumptions been true to a significant regard, the French might have decided Mexico was a resource worth fighting for instead of being happy to leave a barren desert when the US demanded their witdrawal.

As long as England remained neutral (or slightly supportive), the Second Empire had a lot going for it. The French navy was a modern blue water fleet and likely superior to the US Navy of the time. From a very small basis, it had been increased but mostly as a light blockading force. It would take a major building program and experienced crews to challenge the French at sea.

Then there is the French army. Between their superior performance in the Crimea (where they put the British to shame) and Italy to their abysmal performance in 1870, they were pretty good. Considered the best army in the world at the time and filled with veterans rather than the largely conscript US armies.

So its anybody's guess how such a conflict would have panned out. Maybe a repeat of the AoP vs. ANV, e.g. a larger, better supplied but less well trained army vs. a better quality but smaller force under better leaders.....

 

[stevep]

Clout

One possibility I've mentioned before, but don't know how practical it is. Have Mason and Slidell on a French ship rather than the Trent. Nappy III was probably more willing to go to war than Britain and the US may well have viewed the French as less of a threat and so took it less seriously. [Also with his developing interest in Mexico he might well seek an agreement with the south for mutual recognition. [It was cause some discontent in the south as elements there wanted to expand further at Mexican expense but they really need European recognition]. Hence you have the possibility of war between the union and France.

It might even come from a brief spate possibly hindered by confusion. Say Napoleon decides that since the Americans stopped a French ship to prevent the delegates reaching France he will recognise the confederacy. The US was threatening to declare war on anyone who did so I think.

Steve

 

[Fiver]

What would it take for France to get involved in ACW. There are whole posts and arguements dedicated to British involvement in ACW but nothing about France. I don't mean having France tagging along with Britain and joining in with some European campain again the USA but rather them on their own recognising the CSA and sending troops to help.

France wasn't even willing to attempt arbitration between the USA and CSA without British involvement.

Maybe if some Americans desecrated Napoleon's corpse and the CSA gave Texas back to French Mexico.

 

[archaeogeek]

Part of the problem is the growing unpopularity of foreign adventures; they were quite frankly hurting the popularity of Napoleon by extension, and attacking the US would probably not have been seen so positively. The 1868 legislative elections resulted in a parliament that was outright opposed to voting a military budget sufficient for the full paper strength of the french military to be raised; that could very well mean an even worse situation in parliament come 1868.