France by 2022 as much of a "rogue state" in Europe as OTL Putin's Russia

[saint polype]

Point of divergence moments before or right after the end of the second world war.

The challenge is to have a plausible chain of events where, roughly speaking, 2022 France is holding bilateral talks with the US over its military posturing towards- and destabilization of other European countries (and potentially Algeria, still?) which it wants to claim as its "natural borders" or "rightful zone of influence", putting everyone on edge, especially because this France also has nukes.

 

[Nephi]

1967 is a the year that France becomes THE third world, France is huge, it doesn't seem like it but it has islands all over the place, the sun never actually sets on France, and it was even bigger then, here they'll keep French Somaliland and try to keep anything they have left.

They have island all over the world, they pursue an independent policy and set about creating a sphere under their influence, which comes to include all of South America eventually, in a we fucking dare you MAD scenario with both the US and the USSR, when Israel attacks the Liberty that country too falls to their sphere, the Israelis here do btw leave the occupied territories mostly they annex the Jewish quarter of the old city and the holy sites, to Judaism.

The French set up Palestine, which both Israel and Palestine have their capital in Jerusalem, on perspective sides.

It's three sided cold war, with France just as ready to destroy the world as the other two powers are, they are by no means neutral, they end up explaining their sphere into a Central American nation or two, like Guatemala, Honduras, Costa Rica.

Seems interesting and dangerous.

 

[overoceans]

@Nephi

Okay, but what sort of government has come to power in France, and HOW did they come to power, to make that a likely foreign policy?

And why is the rest of the world any more helpless to stop that than they were IOTL?

 

[Nephi]

@Nephi

Okay, but what sort of government has come to power in France, and HOW did they come to power, to make that a likely foreign policy?

And why is the rest of the world any more helpless to stop that than they were IOTL?

I don't know.

I was just throwing ideas out there, do you have any ideas about it?

 

[MissTrunchball]

The Algerian war leads to a right-wing dictatorship a bit similar to South America caudillos at the same time... one POD might be De Gaulle dying before 1958; and the 4th Republic gradually sinking into Hell amid one of the (many) Algerian war political crisis. There was (more or less) one per year in 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962.: pick your choice.
One crisis had a coup in Algiers, then Corsica (yes, Corsica island) as an intermediate step toward parachutists jumping over Paris. De Gaulle masterfully defused that big ticking bomb OTL; but a ruined, bitterly divided, headless and rudderless 4th Republic might not have been able to do that.
De Gaulle certainly had flaws, but in the 1958 to 1962 era he certainly helped France dodging many bullets (lame pun assumed, Petit Clamart, cough).
French military forces were barely under control. This for an obvious reason (in their eyes, not mine: I'm just stating historicalf acts) They had seemingly accomplished their mission of crushing the FLN in Algeria (with very disturbing methods, no question about this) - yet they were being told that their major human, material and financial sacrifices had been... for nothing. As Algeria was to be granted independance nonetheless. No surprise some of them backed the colonists (OAS).

 

[overoceans]

I don't know.

I was just throwing ideas out there, do you have any ideas about it?

@MissTrunchball's post subsequent to yours provides a plausible scenario. Definitely, I'd see the Algerian crisis playing a major role somehow.

And I think I'd throw the name "Maurice Papon" in there somewhere. I'm not a believer in Great Man Theory, but he'd probably play some role in forming a fascist, rogue-state France.

 

[PakistaniGuyUK]

The only way this would come about is a French right-wing government in France discriminating against its ethnic minorities - Black Africans, Asian immigrants (Chinese, Vietnamese etc), and Algerians and other French Arabs. A bit like a South Africa in the Middle of Europe.

Maybe this France will have warm relations with Apartheid South Africa and Jim Crow United States, implementing many of the same policies in Algeria as well as France itself but never evolving out of this 'phase' like the US eventually did.

Could lead to many interesting butterflies, not least diabolical relations with the Netherlands and post-war Germany.

 

[tonycat77]

Isn't this current politics?
Also Russia isn't a rogue state, it's politics and foreign affairs aren't radically different from the goals and long term objectives of the Russian empire/USSR.

 

[CalBear]

Current politics

Closed per posted policy.