For All Mankind (AH Tv series at Apple TV)

Its real possibility.Also Hart seems to have changed some ittl so why cant Bill Clinton or Ellen Wilson ? Not that what she is doing is the same as Hart or Clinton OTL, In my mind what Ellen an d Larry are doing is worse and could cause far more damage if they get into the WH unchanged.
Yeah but I am worried they'll go for, the "of course she'll win solution.
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
Yeah but I am worried they'll go for, the "of course she'll win solution.
I know. Well as we have seen OTL progress sometimes regresses so the same could happen ittl just earlier ? Perhaps with race relations as well as Ed likely isnt the only one who backlashes to Dani getting the NASA Mars spot.And what about seeing Devs brown face everywhere ? Some wont be very happy with that.
 
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Ellen Wilson must win so that Clintonite third wayism is forever discredited and the Democratic Party can remain based, and thats all I have to say about that. After Clinton crashes and burns she's served her purpose, but for now she would be far less damaging to America as a whole than Bill Clinton
 
ESA -European Space Agency would likely be the closest assuming its not on a joint mission with the US.China,India ,Turkey and certainly North Korea all need to get to the Moon first and since its divided between the US and Soviets that can only be done at their sufferance which might be a source of future conflicts on Earth.
A space race with three or more partecipants also means that the whole race do not "stop" just because one player cannot race anymore (like it happened in our timeline with the URSS). This is a possible garantee that the space race here will keep going.

Ha.

Ed, upon losing command due solely to Margo: "NASA's going to hell with all these committees!"
Ed, upon being given command at Helios by a big giant committee: "Now we're talkin'"

Well, Ed was not there, so...maybe they did not tell about this to him?


Well I lean towards Ellen not getting the presidency

Ellen still has her secret, and rules of drama dictates that someone will find it out and reveal it OR try to blackmail here with it. I doubt Republican are willing to have an homosexual woman as president, no matter what timeline we are...
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
Ellen Wilson must win so that Clintonite third wayism is forever discredited and the Democratic Party can remain based, and thats all I have to say about that. After Clinton crashes and burns she's served her purpose, but for now she would be far less damaging to America as a whole than Bill Clinton
With Ted Kennedy as president from 1973-1977 and Gary Hart from 1985-1993 we are likely looking at a very different Supreme Court from OTL and I for one dont want Ellen Wilson nominating Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas instead of Ruth Bader Ginsburg-assuming she isnt already there. Ellen Wilson likely is more damaging in every way except for the space race which Bill Clinton is probably the exact same on.
A space race with three or more partecipants also means that the whole race do not "stop" just because one player cannot race anymore (like it happened in our timeline with the URSS). This is a possible garantee that the space race here will keep going.
Right I tend to agree but the question is where does it go as whoever gets there first seems to lock it down ? The Asteroid Belt and the moons of Jupiter and Saturn -mentioned by Dev-are the likely next targets as there are plenty of them...
Well, Ed was not there, so...maybe they did not tell about this to him?
You mean at the Helios announcement about him leading the mission to Mars ? Ed was shown there for that along with new Helios employee and his ex wife Karen who pitched Dev to give him the job. I wonder if the name Helios is a homage to BSG as its also the name of the multiple stars in the home system of the 12 Colonies,
Ellen still has her secret, and rules of drama dictates that someone will find it out and reveal it OR try to blackmail here with it. I doubt Republican are willing to have an homosexual woman as president, no matter what timeline we are...
and nobody know that better than Ellen and Larry Wilson who have remained closeted and have had a child to compound that lie. As far as other timelines Id like to think there are at least a few in The Multiverse where the Republicans are totally different and maybe alternate Max Gerke is still one but that said I dont think its the FAM timeline until I see strong evidence to the contrary and Pat Robertson as their nominee in 1988 and Ellen Wilson and Jim Bragg in 1992 dont exactly do that at all.
 
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Right I tend to agree but the question is where does it go as whoever gets there first seems to lock it down ? The Asteroid Belt and the moons of Jupiter and Saturn -mentioned by Dev-are the likely next targets as there are plenty of them...

Considering that in the asteroid Belts are 700 quintilions of money worth in raw mineral and precious metals for Earth industry, I would say that, once humanity has stable settlements on Mars (like they currently have in For All Mankind for Jamestown on the Moon) I would say going to the asteroids and start building mining colonies would be an excellent idea. Also, Jupiter and Saturn satellites (in particular, Europa) would be good places for new outposts.

Too bad it looks so far that there is no plan to go toward Venus...
and nobody know that better than Ellen and Larry Wilson who have remained closeted and have had a child to compound that lie. As far as other timelines Id like to think there are at least a few in The Multiverse where the Republicans are totally different and maybe alternate Max Gerke is still one but that said I dont think its the FAM timeline until I see strong evidence to the contrary and Pat Robertson as their nominee in 1988 and Ellen Wilson and Jim Bragg in 1992 dont exactly do that at all.
But there is still the woman who used to be Ellen's lover at the outpost, Pam: is she still alive? What if someone might find the secret trough her?
 
Just to add to the preponderance of circumstances for Ellen to win, we have just had eight years of Gary Hart. And he's not out of office just yet. This show has the option to drop Hart and Clinton scandals at the same time, if it wants to.

It does seem unlikely that a woman like Ellen would win the GOP nomination in OTL 1992. We've heard exactly one extremely vague insinuation that she doesn't support working families to the degree that Clinton does. We know she's on board with stem cells. I have to once again assume that the left wing of the GOP has been shored up ITTL. At least enough to win FPTP primary contests against conservatives. The fact that both Dole and Buchanan were mentioned as being in the primaries may have split the conservative vote, but you'd still need a good base of moderates to fight against the stigma of being a "maverick" lady Republican in 1992.

One thing that might have happened: a Silicon Valley more aligned with the GOP than IOTL. A more technocratic GOP, capable of embracing some of the weird "radical centrist" dogma you often get drifting out of NoCal. Still very pro-business, pro- "disruption," but also pro investment in STEM and a meritocratic view of social advancement. The government can intervene to level the playing field to allow the great-but-disadvantaged to excel, but don't do it on moral principal.

Another head-scratcher is that somehow Gore is Hart's vice president. If he's been the VP since 1984, he would've been about 36 at election time and IOTL would've been still in the House (he won his first term in the senate in '84). We know Howard Baker's in the senate going into '84 thanks to season 2, so the best he could've done was somehow replace Sasser in '82 (he'd be too young to meet age requirements to run in '76). Or they plucked him out of the House and put him on the Hart ticket. Not likely. Hart's only in his 40s; he wants someone older, and someone who represents a different wing of the party (basically the Ellen/Larry conversation from last episode).

The other possibility is for some reason Hart needed a new running mate in '88. That's still a little off from what's presented, as Gore would absolutely clear the field in '92. No way Clinton runs with all the Third Way peeps lined up behind Gore. Hart would totally try it: extend the Third Way momentum beyond his presidency, absolutely. The question is, who was his VP in '84, if this is the case?
 
Well I lean towards Ellen not getting the presidency

Based on what the show’s creator said in the official FAM podcast, they’re really leaning into the “social progress has progressed faster ITTL” angle, so I don’t think it’s out of the question that Ellen could win in 1992 since she’d be TTL’s first woman President. That being said, I’m not sure she’ll win re-election in 1996 (when this season will probably end) given that she’s probably going to get outed and the show’s creators won’t want Bragg to get a shot at the Presidency.

So if I had to guess now, I’d wager that Ellen will narrowly win in 1992, lose in 1996, and that John McCain will win in 2000 since his name was dropped in the last episode and will be President when the next season starts.
 
Another head-scratcher is that somehow Gore is Hart's vice president. If he's been the VP since 1984, he would've been about 36 at election time and IOTL would've been still in the House (he won his first term in the senate in '84). We know Howard Baker's in the senate going into '84 thanks to season 2, so the best he could've done was somehow replace Sasser in '82 (he'd be too young to meet age requirements to run in '76). Or they plucked him out of the House and put him on the Hart ticket. Not likely. Hart's only in his 40s; he wants someone older, and someone who represents a different wing of the party (basically the Ellen/Larry conversation from last episode).

Here’s one plausible answer for Hart’s VP:

Hart picks Joe Biden as his VP in 1984 to shore up his weakness with blue-collar voters while doubling-down on his message of generational change. Joe Biden has an aneurysm in Feb. 1988 (which he did in OTL) and decides not to run for VP again. Hart then picks Al Gore in 1988 to blunt Robertson’s appeal in the south.
 
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MaxGerke01

Banned
Considering that in the asteroid Belts are 700 quintilions of money worth in raw mineral and precious metals for Earth industry, I would say that, once humanity has stable settlements on Mars (like they currently have in For All Mankind for Jamestown on the Moon) I would say going to the asteroids and start building mining colonies would be an excellent idea. Also, Jupiter and Saturn satellites (in particular, Europa) would be good places for new outposts.

Too bad it looks so far that there is no plan to go toward Venus...
Agreed except on Venus which would be lots of work with little reward forever if ever right ?
But there is still the woman who used to be Ellen's lover at the outpost, Pam: is she still alive? What if someone might find the secret trough her?
No reason for her to not be around and yes she could really bring down the whole facade.
 
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MaxGerke01

Banned
Based on what the show’s creator said in the official FAM podcast, they’re really leaning into the “social progress has progressed faster ITTL” angle, so I don’t think it’s out of the question that Ellen could win in 1992 since she’d be TTL’s first woman President. That being said, I’m not sure she’ll win re-election in 1996 (when this season will probably end) given that she’s probably going to get outed and the show’s creators won’t want Bragg to get a shot at the Presidency.

So if I had to guess now, I’d wager that Ellen will narrowly win in 1992, lose in 1996, and that John McCain will win in 2000 since his name was dropped in the last episode and will be President when the next season starts.
Dont like the sound of what 2 Republicans in a row would do to the Supreme Court ittl, If John McCain is indeed on the horizon during Dubyas OTL term we need Clinton in the 1990s more than ever imo,
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
Here’s one plausible answer for Hart’s VP:

Hart picks Joe Biden as his VP in 1984 to shore up his weakness with blue-collar voters while doubling-down on his message of generational change. Joe Biden has an aneurysm in Feb. 1988 (which he did in OTL) and decides not to run for VP again. Hart then picks Al Gore in 1988 to blunt Robertson’s appeal in the south.
Works perfectly.Im wondering who Clintons pick is in 1992 as well as the Republicans in 1984 and Robertsons VP pick in 1988.
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
Just to add to the preponderance of circumstances for Ellen to win, we have just had eight years of Gary Hart. And he's not out of office just yet. This show has the option to drop Hart and Clinton scandals at the same time, if it wants to.
Maybe they didnt happen ittl ?
It does seem unlikely that a woman like Ellen would win the GOP nomination in OTL 1992. We've heard exactly one extremely vague insinuation that she doesn't support working families to the degree that Clinton does. We know she's on board with stem cells. I have to once again assume that the left wing of the GOP has been shored up ITTL. At least enough to win FPTP primary contests against conservatives. The fact that both Dole and Buchanan were mentioned as being in the primaries may have split the conservative vote, but you'd still need a good base of moderates to fight against the stigma of being a "maverick" lady Republican in 1992.
Who despite being for stem cells is pro life by her own words and feels she needs a solider for Jesus as her VP pick.Doesnt sound very maverick to me .
One thing that might have happened: a Silicon Valley more aligned with the GOP than IOTL. A more technocratic GOP, capable of embracing some of the weird "radical centrist" dogma you often get drifting out of NoCal. Still very pro-business, pro- "disruption," but also pro investment in STEM and a meritocratic view of social advancement. The government can intervene to level the playing field to allow the great-but-disadvantaged to excel, but don't do it on moral principal.
Doesnt seem to be what we are seeing in 1992 at least at the top of the ticket.
 
Dont like the sound of what 2 Republicans in a row would do to the Supreme Court ittl, If John McCain is indeed on the horizon during Dubyas OTL term we need Clinton in the 1990s more than ever imo,
My hunch, though, is that Ellen will only serve one term because she’ll get outed and her party (and perhaps her own VP) will turn against her, so there would be a one-term Democratic President between Ellen and McCain.
 
Agreed except on Venus which would be lots of work with little reward forever if ever right ?
Venus is the ONLY planet in the whole Solar System whose gravity is close to Earth's. Yes, it would be difficult to colonize or terraform, but if done, it can be a Second Earth. And considering the various issues due to growing at lower gravities...
 
Based on what the show’s creator said in the official FAM podcast, they’re really leaning into the “social progress has progressed faster ITTL” angle, so I don’t think it’s out of the question that Ellen could win in 1992 since she’d be TTL’s first woman President. That being said, I’m not sure she’ll win re-election in 1996 (when this season will probably end) given that she’s probably going to get outed and the show’s creators won’t want Bragg to get a shot at the Presidency.

So if I had to guess now, I’d wager that Ellen will narrowly win in 1992, lose in 1996, and that John McCain will win in 2000 since his name was dropped in the last episode and will be President when the next season starts.
This is bonkers, I think you somehow quoted another user and put my name to it?
 
Maybe they didnt happen ittl ?

Who despite being for stem cells is pro life by her own words and feels she needs a solider for Jesus as her VP pick.Doesnt sound very maverick to me .

Doesnt seem to be what we are seeing in 1992 at least at the top of the ticket.
Sure, maybe it didn't happen. But the show has the option to drop Hart and Clinton scandals at the same time, if it wants to.

Stem cell support is more Maverick than the guy we coined the term "Maverick" for, so... 🤷‍♂️
Anything, really anything at all non-doctrinaire has been pretty unthinkable for the GOP since the religious right crawled into its ear canal.

The top of the ticket could very easily be exactly that, since we have no hard evidence and only speculations. This is me speculating how a seeming moderate (moderate relative to where the OTL GOP was IOTL 1992) wins the nomination. I think it's a reasonable speculation based on who produces the show. Ron walks into a meeting with the brass and goes:
"So we thought we'd make the GOP more likeable."
"Oh yeah? How you gonna do that?"
"We thought we'd make them more like Apple."
"Excellent! Harumph! Oh, Billingsley?"
::Billingsley enters::
"Yes sir?"
"Please get me my greenlight stamp, Mr. Moore is getting another season!"
"Very good, sir."
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
My hunch, though, is that Ellen will only serve one term because she’ll get outed and her party (and perhaps her own VP) will turn against her, so there would be a one-term Democratic President between Ellen and McCain.
That's my feeling.
Well thats better than Ellen from 1993 to 2001 and then McCain 2001-2009 imo ,The problem to me is OTL at least there were no Supreme Court picks from 1997-2001 but there were 2 from 1993-1997 and 2 from 2001-2009.So whatever Ted Kennedy and Gary Hart did during their terms would be severely eroded by 4 Republican picks -if things stayed the same here of course.
 

MaxGerke01

Banned
Venus is the ONLY planet in the whole Solar System whose gravity is close to Earth's. Yes, it would be difficult to colonize or terraform, but if done, it can be a Second Earth. And considering the various issues due to growing at lower gravities...
Very hard and expensive but with a wonderful result if done.To me Id want to see it done only when the world is more unified so the cost and difficulty is more spread out and not falling on the back of just one nation-ie the USA, Or even better wait till friendly aliens show up and they do it for free in 5 years or less.
 
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