Flag Thread III

[Kaiser K]

The TL for which that flag was made had no indication that the "communism" was any different than OTL. So having a cross on the national flag is definitely not too plausible.



The creator cannot just change historical fact, like dyeing techniques or parameters for naval jacks etc. because they want, in that case, their designs literally wouldn't work.



Depends again on plausibility. A pelican-in-her-piety could be set as a symbol for some charity organization in some TL because the symbolism works. But crossed swords or something ridiculous like severed phalluses or something wouldn't make much sense, the author would have to be quite thorough in setting up the circumstances for the validity of such symbolism in their TL.

But, you have no right to tell me my design is wrong, and give me something I didn't want, It's my ATL, it's my creation, I wanted the flag to be the regular Swiss flag with a Red Star in the middle, Even if you don't like it, you have no right to judge about what I want, or my ATL's people want, and I can have them want whatever I want them to flipping want, or have them chose a flag design I want them to chose, it's my ATL, it's my rules that go into the ATL,


So yes, you can have your own rules for your own personal work, but you can't judge and change the rules of my TL because they don't follow IOTL, as it's not your ATL, it's mine. You have no right to shove a design down my throat I didn't want, I can have it whatever way I want. as it's my Alternate Timeline, my rules that govern the universe and everyone and how people think and chose is all my rules, as it's my Alternate Timeline.

 

[autonomousoblast]

But, you have no right to tell me my design is wrong, and give me something I didn't want, It's my ATL, it's my creation, I wanted the flag to be the regular Swiss flag with a Red Star in the middle, Even if you don't like it, you have no right to judge about what I want, or my ATL's people want, and I can have them want whatever I want them to flipping want, or have them chose a flag design I want them to chose, it's my ATL, it's my rules that go into the ATL,


So yes, you can have your own rules for your own personal work, but you can't judge and change the rules of my TL because they don't follow IOTL, as it's not your ATL, it's mine. You have no right to shove a design down my throat I didn't want, I can have it whatever way I want. as it's my Alternate Timeline, my rules that govern the universe and everyone and how people think and chose is all my rules, as it's my Alternate Timeline.

There is such a thing as plausibility. Make an ASB timeline if you will, I could not care less. And how did anyone "shove a design down your throat"? None of this passive-aggressive tantrum is going to prove yourself right, so please keep things civil.

 

[TheseusDeuteros]

Shall we stop this argument and start making nice flaggies?

 

[Kaiser K]

There is such a thing as plausibility. Make an ASB timeline if you will, I could not care less. And how did anyone "shove a design down your throat"? None of this passive-aggressive tantrum is going to prove yourself right, so please keep things civil.

I asked for a normal Swiss flag with a red star in the cross, kinda like Yugoslavia just adding a Red star to it's exsisting Tricolour,, then you made the Helevetic flag, which is not anything like I wanted, and all you would do was give me every reason why what I wanted made no sense instead of just doing what I requested, you were shoving the design you thought was plausible down my throat,

 

[Utgard96]

But, you have no right to tell me my design is wrong, and give me something I didn't want, It's my ATL, it's my creation, I wanted the flag to be the regular Swiss flag with a Red Star in the middle, Even if you don't like it, you have no right to judge about what I want, or my ATL's people want, and I can have them want whatever I want them to flipping want, or have them chose a flag design I want them to chose, it's my ATL, it's my rules that go into the ATL,


So yes, you can have your own rules for your own personal work, but you can't judge and change the rules of my TL because they don't follow IOTL, as it's not your ATL, it's mine. You have no right to shove a design down my throat I didn't want, I can have it whatever way I want. as it's my Alternate Timeline, my rules that govern the universe and everyone and how people think and chose is all my rules, as it's my Alternate Timeline.

And now we're back to the old trouble. This thread is frequented mostly by people who are genuinely interested in vexillology, and who enjoy debating the plausibility and aesthetic quality of various flag designs. I'm not saying that everyone isn't welcome here, but you should respect the interests of others as they try to improve upon your ideas. The entire point of this thread (or so I think; I can't speak for the people who started it, nor do I claim to) is to discuss the intricacies of vexillology and heraldry and to improve upon one another's ideas, not to constantly complain when people want to do this to your particular ideas.

 

[autonomousoblast]

I asked for a normal Swiss flag with a red star in the cross, kinda like Yugoslavia just adding a Red star to it's exsisting Tricolour,, then you made the Helevetic flag, which is not anything like I wanted, and all you would do was give me every reason why what I wanted made no sense instead of just doing what I requested, you were shoving the design you thought was plausible down my throat,

And that is somehow not the point of this thread? This is called Flag thread, if you want requests go to that thread.

And now we're back to the old trouble. This thread is frequented mostly by people who are genuinely interested in vexillology, and who enjoy debating the plausibility and aesthetic quality of various flag designs. I'm not saying that everyone isn't welcome here, but you should respect the interests of others as they try to improve upon your ideas. The entire point of this thread (or so I think; I can't speak for the people who started it, nor do I claim to) is to discuss the intricacies of vexillology and heraldry and to improve upon one another's ideas, not to constantly complain when people want to do this to your particular ideas.

Precisely this.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

I think it'd be improved if you altered the shape of Cornwall's section - it looks a little weird at present.

yeah, true. just hard to put them in a pattern that is both pleasing and doesn't clash with the shield's shape.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

Can I pleae have a black white and red horizontal tricolour with a Nazi eagle in the middle. Only instead of a swastika inside the oak wreath can I please have an "M" in Times New Roman.

easy enough request. what does the M stands for ?

 

[Marc Pasquin]

The only rule that is universal to all TL's is along the lines of: "No black eagles on a dark blue field, 'cuz no one will be able to see it!"

If I want a chicken to be a symbol of freedom in my ATL, I can have a U.S. flag with a chicken rampant on it and no one can tell me my idea is "wrong"!

They may tell me that it looks ridiculous and stupid, but it cannot be "wrong" as I, as the creator of that ATL have made the rules and have followed them.

maybe its just a question of semantic: not wrong in the sense of "you can't do that on this board" but surely at least to the point of "don't expect us to take it seriously".

 

[Marc Pasquin]

Looks best, and nice colour combination. Mind it if I steel that colour combination?

go for it.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

Here a flag for the United Nations of Britain (http://i.imgur.com/KeBWKLj.png).

maybe use a different shade for the blue so it stands out more as that part being a different colour then then other 3.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

But, you have no right to tell me my design is wrong, and give me something I didn't want, It's my ATL, it's my creation, I wanted the flag to be the regular Swiss flag with a Red Star in the middle, Even if you don't like it, you have no right to judge about what I want, or my ATL's people want, and I can have them want whatever I want them to flipping want, or have them chose a flag design I want them to chose, it's my ATL, it's my rules that go into the ATL,


So yes, you can have your own rules for your own personal work, but you can't judge and change the rules of my TL because they don't follow IOTL, as it's not your ATL, it's mine. You have no right to shove a design down my throat I didn't want, I can have it whatever way I want. as it's my Alternate Timeline, my rules that govern the universe and everyone and how people think and chose is all my rules, as it's my Alternate Timeline.

you seem to be getting angry at people for doing exactly what this thread is about: discussing flag.

And incidently, bear in mind that we who draw flags do so for free and on our own time. Do not assume we are required to do a request.

 

[Marc Pasquin]

Shall we stop this argument and start making nice flaggies?

Lets all stare at the flag of the People's Republic of Ganga

 

[Poor Little Rhode Island]

The TL for which that flag was made had no indication that the "communism" was any different than OTL. So having a cross on the national flag is definitely not too plausible.

This is true. The TL's creator (and flag requester) did not indicate at all that her "analog-communists" didn't have a problem with religious symbols on national flags. So, you would have been more correct to ask her about that instead of saying, which you essentially did, although I may use different words: "No. You can't have a cross on the flag. You are requesting something that you can't have." Instead, perhaps a mention of what communists IOTL do with religious symbols on their flags: They REMOVE them. She then would've had the option of back-checking her TL's history to make her "analog-communists" not adverse to religious symbols on their flags OR agree with your assessment and move on.


The creator cannot just change historical fact, like dyeing techniques or parameters for naval jacks etc. because they want, in that case, their designs literally wouldn't work.

True, dyeing techniques cannot be changed, if one wants your TL to be in a world technically identical to ours. I'm not so sure about the parameters of naval jacks, as IMHO, it may be possible that other sizes could work. (Enlighten me if I am totally off-base here, please.)


Depends again on plausibility. A pelican-in-her-piety could be set as a symbol for some charity organization in some TL because the symbolism works. But crossed swords or something ridiculous like severed phalluses or something wouldn't make much sense, the author would have to be quite thorough in setting up the circumstances for the validity of such symbolism in their TL.

Crossed swords would be a really interesting idea for a charitable organization. BUT, the creator would have to have a VERY interesting rationale for it buried in the context of their TL's world. That in itself might push the POD so far into the past as to make things truly weird.

Still, I stand on my major point: The creator of an ATL can make changes in the traditions of their world. They do not have to be identical to those in our world. And, as long as there is inner consistency, there is no room for anyone to tell the creator that they are "wrong".

You make not like someone's ideas. You may think their ideas are silly or stupid. But they cannot be "wrong".

 

[Kaiser K]

And now we're back to the old trouble. This thread is frequented mostly by people who are genuinely interested in vexillology, and who enjoy debating the plausibility and aesthetic quality of various flag designs. I'm not saying that everyone isn't welcome here, but you should respect the interests of others as they try to improve upon your ideas. The entire point of this thread (or so I think; I can't speak for the people who started it, nor do I claim to) is to discuss the intricacies of vexillology and heraldry and to improve upon one another's ideas, not to constantly complain when people want to do this to your particular ideas.

And that is somehow not the point of this thread? This is called Flag thread, if you want requests go to that thread.



Precisely this.

you seem to be getting angry at people for doing exactly what this thread is about: discussing flag.

And incidently, bear in mind that we who draw flags do so for free and on our own time. Do not assume we are required to do a request.

Im not getting mad at people wanting to discuss flags, im getting mad that Autonomus thinks he has a right to just flat out tell me what I requested is flat out wrong and basically refuse to do it, instead giving me something the complete opposite of what I wanted, and when I told him it would make no sense in the context of the ATL I wanted this flag for, he flat out told me I was wrong,


I feel insulted, and im mad because all I wanted was a flag, not a lecture about how my idea is wrong, and how I shouldn't use it, because the specific person believes it to be wrong.


It's my ATL, if I want the cross to remain, that is my request, he has no right to tell me it's wrong.

 

[Cydonius]

...And incidently, bear in mind that we who draw flags do so for free and on our own time. Do not assume we are required to do a request.

Exactly this. If someone is kind enough to respond to a request and give up some of their own free time to draw something for you, it's really quite impolite to get stroppy over the results. It also makes people quite unlikely to respond to future requests.

It really isn't that onerous to install something like MS Paint, or Paint.NET, or GIMP, or any of a dozen other image editors and just start playing around to see what you can do. Especially if you go Googling what the "Layers" functions can do

On the subject of nice flaggies, I humbly submit my flag for a *communist successor to the Ottoman Empire, the İşçi Kurullaru Cumhuriyetler Birliği or Union of Workers' Concilar Republics. It's a bit pixellated in the attached version but anti-aliasing makes it very hard to recolour the individual layers while you're still playing with the design...

(I borrowed the wheat-and-cog emblem from a Communist Canada flag whose creator I must confess I didn't record in the image name. A quick search didn't bear fruit so if anyone could point be in the right direction I'd happily credit )

 

[Kaiser K]

Exactly this. If someone is kind enough to respond to a request and give up some of their own free time to draw something for you, it's really quite impolite to get stroppy over the results. It also makes people quite unlikely to respond to future requests. )

I understand that, Im grateful when any of you take time out of your busy schdule to make a stupid flag for me, but what I got mad about is the result was not what I requested in the first place. and it took three pages for me to get what I requested.

 

[Cydonius]

I understand that, Im grateful when any of you take time out of your busy schdule to make a stupid flag for me, but what I got mad about is the result was not what I requested in the first place. and it took three pages for me to get what I requested.

Of course it's going to wind you up if the response doesn't quite match what you'd requested, but IMHO what really ruffled people's feathers was the tone of the response. People tend to be far more accommodating of carrots rather than sticks, i.e. even if you're really wound up about something, if you hide that from your reply and keep it neutral/polite then people carry on going out of their way to help out. I'd humbly suggest that if your first response had been a bit less emotional (and if you hadn't typed the swearing, but just thought it) you'd have achieved your request three posts later, rather than three pages later.

 

[Tsao]

I understand that, Im grateful when any of you take time out of your busy schdule to make a stupid flag for me, but what I got mad about is the result was not what I requested in the first place. and it took three pages for me to get what I requested.

You requested someone else to make something for you, and got mad when they didn't? Hardly the right attitude.

 

[Kaiser K]

Of course it's going to wind you up if the response doesn't quite match what you'd requested, but IMHO what really ruffled people's feathers was the tone of the response. People tend to be far more accommodating of carrots rather than sticks, i.e. even if you're really wound up about something, if you hide that from your reply and keep it neutral/polite then people carry on going out of their way to help out. I'd humbly suggest that if your first response had been a bit less emotional (and if you hadn't typed the swearing, but just thought it) you'd have achieved your request three posts later, rather than three pages later.

Hell, it didn't even just quite match, it was the complete opposite of what I wanted, okay, maybe my initial response was a little bad, I admit, but I was stressed thanks to issues im having with my Mom in RL, (That's a whole diffrent story,) so maybe part of it was that, but that's besides the point.


I also mentioned to autonomus what he wanted to give me would make no sense in the context of the ATL universe I wanted it for, but he refused to listen to me, said I was wrong, that the flag had to follow OTL vexilgology rules, I felt insulted, and felt he was treating me like a child, personally, but then again, Ive been bullied alot on this board, so maybe it's just a first nature, but I honestly felt insulted by Autonomus, it felt like to me he was trying to force his Helevetic colors design on me, instead of just doing the simple request I made, no matter if he thought that it made sense or not,