Fav small nation in history that had a chance for greatness but didnt

[Yanez de Gomera]

What about a surviving independent Breton state that, sharing a land border with the much more powerful French monarchy, pulled a Portugal and turned to the sea, conquering and colonizing vast chunks of Africa, the Americas and Asia, or a hypothetical independent Irish state doing the same to avoid being gobbled up by England?

The bretons seem to be quite likely as alternate discoverers of Northern America because of their interest in cod fishing, but an Asian colonial empire seems quite more difficult.

Ireland is also favoured by a big population surplus in vast tracts of its history. I am all for something like an irish-welsh "celtic" colonial power.

 

[Joshuapooleanox]

Gran Colombia, Palaiologos Byzantines, Empire of Trebizond, Ireland under Brian Boru, Denmark in the Kalmar Union, Kievan rus, Teutonic Order. Hell even Kingdom of Jerusalem could have become glorious.

 

[Umbral]

The Visigoths. I'd have liked the Vandals to have more success too, but there seems to have been less initial stability. Ostrogoths.

 

[Chrysóstomos]

Some of the Celtic confederations in Gaul were surprisingly well-organized and technologically/politically advanced. If Caesar hadn't come barging in and smashed the place whilst they were warring each other, a powerful state could have come into being there.

 

[Neoteros]

The bretons seem to be quite likely as alternate discoverers of Northern America because of their interest in cod fishing, but an Asian colonial empire seems quite more difficult.

Ireland is also favoured by a big population surplus in vast tracts of its history. I am all for something like an irish-welsh "celtic" colonial power.

Welsh? I don't know, the Welsh got in the English sphere of influence pretty early on; the Isle of Man, Cornwall and Wales don't stand a chance as potential colonial powers without a very early POD. Brittany, Ireland and especially Scotland though, they could've done it. Especially if Ireland, the Isle of Man and Scotland had been unified under a common Gaelic (or maybe Norse-Gaelic) state.

I should stop using EU4 as a guide on how to get clay and oppress indigenous populations.

 

[Joshuapooleanox]

Welsh? I don't know, the Welsh got in the English sphere of influence pretty early on; the Isle of Man, Cornwall and Wales don't stand a chance as potential colonial powers without a very early POD. Brittany, Ireland and especially Scotland though, they could've done it. Especially if Ireland, the Isle of Man and Scotland had been unified under a common Gaelic (or maybe Norse-Gaelic) state.

I should stop using EU4 as a guide on how to get clay and oppress indigenous populations.

Ikr? Ryukyu should not be able to get 100% world conquests.

 

[Tripledot]

For a modern example, the Philippines were in a position to dominate Southeast Asia in the post-war era, but have had significant bad luck in the intervening years.

 

[ramones1986]

(Continental) Frisia

 

[Escape Zeppelin]

Modern Greece. Had the Treaty of Sevres held then Greece would have increased dramatically in power and importance.

 

[John7755 يوحنا]

The late Abbasid period in the 1200s. Abbasid power had begun recovering and in fact stood up to the Kwarezmshahs and forced the supposed strongest Islamic state in the world to back down. They also defied the odds recovering completely for a time in a Byzantine sequence fashion, however, they played their cards wrong by trusting the Mongols.


The Hashashin were another unique state, truly nothing like it.

 

[GauchoBadger]

Modern Greece. Had the Treaty of Sevres held then Greece would have increased dramatically in power and importance.

They could have taken some territory from Turkey, but i doubt they'd be strong enough to take Constantinople. The city had way too many turkish-identifying citizens that would have to be expelled in order to keep the area from rebelling, and the greeks just couldn't fill in these vacant numbers so quickly.

 

[Jürgen]

France.... seriosly, with its potential she could do way much with some luck/visionary rulers/better decisions or at least avoid some very great setbacks and disasters.

Seriously...

OTL have more or less been a France wank.

 

[Escape Zeppelin]

They could have taken some territory from Turkey, but i doubt they'd be strong enough to take Constantinople. The city had way too many turkish-identifying citizens that would have to be expelled in order to keep the area from rebelling, and the greeks just couldn't fill in these vacant numbers so quickly.

I expect they'd have significant assistance from the British and French. And don't forget the Greeks expelled from Turkish territory in our history. I'd expect something similar to happen here and that's nearly 1.5 million Greeks to replace any Turks expelled.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

I'm a sucker for Northumbria, Oman could certainly do better - Hormuz too.

Beta Israel perhaps? (Alpha Israel could do well too).

Ardalan? A small Kurdish state going large could be great.

Any of the Caucasian states - Georgia/Imeretia could dominate the Black Sea in earlier antiquity and build themselves an Empire.

 

[President Benedict Arnold]

Korea could have pulled a Meiji, just like Japan, but it did it too late and ended up being first in chinese orbit, then in russian orbit, then under japanese domination, then divided between an american ally in the south and a lunatic quasi-orwellian dictatorship in the north.

I always liked the idea of a Meiji Madagascar that, instead of slowly falling to French influence, uses France to help itself progress and become a prominent regional power.

Ikr? Ryukyu should not be able to get 100% world conquests.

Agreed. I like how CK2 limits those possibilities and I'm certain that didn't do that for EU4 because it'd upset the considerable group of fans who play the game like it's a sport of how quickly you can take over the world.

Seriously...

OTL have more or less been a France wank.

I'd say it just looks that way because they started so far ahead. They didn't have many great existential threats until the Middle Ages, being so far from the heart of the Islamic Empire. The only threats they had were Germanic raiders and they pretty competently dealt with most of those.

 

[Joshuapooleanox]

I always liked the idea of a Meiji Madagascar that, instead of slowly falling to French influence, uses France to help itself progress and become a prominent regional power.



Agreed. I like how CK2 limits those possibilities and I'm certain that didn't do that for EU4 because it'd upset the considerable group of fans who play the game like it's a sport of how quickly you can take over the world.



I'd say it just looks that way because they started so far ahead. They didn't have many great existential threats until the Middle Ages, being so far from the heart of the Islamic Empire. The only threats they had were Germanic raiders and they pretty competently dealt with most of those.

For me Byzantium is always my playstyle in either EU4 or CK2. I just love the idea of the Restoration of Byzantium, let alone Rome itself.

 

[GauchoBadger]

I know the byzantophile sector of AH.com will probably be ordering the spewing of greek fire upon me for saying this, but...
What about the Latin Empire? With competent enough monarchs, they could gradually throw off venetian dependence and manage to supplant their concerningly low public popularity by encouraging Greek Catholicism.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

I know the byzantophile sector of AH.com will probably be ordering the spewing of greek fire upon me for saying this, but...
What about the Latin Empire? With competent enough monarchs, they could gradually throw off venetian dependence and manage to supplant their concerningly low public popularity by encouraging Greek Catholicism.

As a blatant Byzantophile, I do like the idea.

 

[BELFAST]

Scotland.

 

[EmpressMaude]

Lothingaria.