Fallout UK: Any ideas?
- Thread starter Krall
- Start date
Krall
Banned
Hurrah! Though I do have two questions: Do you have an untextured version, and how did you texture it?
Well the region still wasn't very stable in the 50s - apparently there were IRA campaigns in the 40s and 50s.
Yeah, apart from dogs and cats the only interesting fauna we might have are mutated farm animals, which probably wouldn't be all that dangerous, and mutated wild animals, like hedgehogs and deer, which wouldn't really be aggressive.
I'm going to Uni in Durham in a month, so I'll report back on what it's like.
I could see a state based more on medieval society with high technology arising out of Durham, the centre of the city would make a perfect fortress. A cross between the Brotherhood of Steel and those medieval reenactors they have in America.
Sad to say that I think more of Luton when you say conservative, traditionalist white supremacists; English Defence League and all that. A pity it would probably have been nuked. Perhaps Oxford for the right mix of conservatism and elitism?
Luton may have the EDL, but it's relatively ethnically diverse (which, I suppose, is one of the reasons why the EDL is so strong there). Being in the South it's also near areas that I've already decided what to do with, and I'd like to spread out the detail a bit. Oxford is even closer to aforementioned regions, heck, it's directly sandwiched in between them. I'd like the white supremacist, somewhat theocratic state to be far enough from the remnants of the British government (centred on Wiltshire) so that they can pay lip service to the monarchy without ever really having to do anything more than that.
I'm planning to call the white supremacist faction "Anglaland", with "Angla" being their term for the pure, white, English race. Compared to them the conservative remnants of the British government is pretty forgiving and tolerant - they disapprove of Ghouls, but don't necessarily want to kill them all, and they don't really care too much about a person's skin colour (though their socio-economic class is a different issue).
Not a bad idea. I imagine that very few of these "lesser" Kings would claim the full titles of the British Sovereign, they might just claim to be the king of a region or a home country (like a King of Scotland - do I get bonus points for making them Ugandan?).
Hmm, according to Wikipedia Berwick-upon-Tweed was mentioned separately from England and Scotland in some official documents prior to 1746 (when they decided that it fell under "England"). I say that's good enough precedent to make it its own kingdom, with its own king. That would work well with the idea of Berwick being a buffer fortress that is neither Scotland nor England.
Alternatively the Isle of Wight could have escaped the war unscathed and now lives in a state of total isolation and stagnation, so people living there literally still believe it's 1954?
EDIT:
So what happens to Scotland?
The picture I currently have in my head is of nomadic clans roaming the Highlands, with a few cities providing safe places for the clans to trade to outsiders.
The Lowlands would have been more heavily nuked, but would still be more developed. The region would be the British Isles' primary producer of coal, meaning it would be quite prosperous. The region would likely be divided into several city-states, though a self-declared King of Scotland may have negotiated and conquered his way into being the nominal sovereign of the region, though his power would vary from region to region.
My wife (then girlfriend) and I went on our first holiday to the Isle of Wight in 2008, and I couldn't imagine that it's advanced much since then. We also had a terrifying meal in a pub, served by someone who we very much suspect was on day-release from the nearby prison. Or he'd escaped. Either way, he was definitely a mass murderer.
And like the Fallout games, you need to have some slight nods to the pop culture genre that it's steeped in. So my vote is for a Judge Dredd-pastiche/parody... Constable Terror or something, some crazy (talking Enclave crazy) Brit who is sworn (to some seemingly made-up law agency) to clean up the lawless wastelands. Maybe he'd make for a good companion or something.
Morlocks?
I recall an interesting Fallout scenario in Europe on the Map Thread. It involved Britain being surrounded by a Defence System which attacked anything trying to cross the barrier, likely constructed by the British government during the collapse of the Commonwealth. Perhaps it was originally designed to also defend Britain against nuclear attack, but ironically it's anti-nuke systems weren't online by the time they started to fall. I think it taps quite nicely into the British Isolation mentality, the 1950s being before Britain became more actively involved in European affairs, as well as the Royal Navy image, automated ships constantly patrolling the coast in case of potential pirates. This also means that Britain won't have to deal with potential threats from the mainland. If civilized society survived in Britain (to a degree, of course) then it makes sense to assume it might have on the mainland as well. No need to worry about Norman Pirates, Neo-Vikings or even a reconstructed European Commonwealth. Of course, Brits can't get out easily either, making it a double edged sword. It also adds a bit of mystery as to what is going on on the mainland.
I like the Oil Baron idea so what if these Barons, due to their influence in government, granted their ships access codes to pass through the barrier. This would still keep the Oil Baron concept, but also allow for clever mainlanders a potential access point. A channel tunnel would also work as well, although it would likely be heavily guarded. I think the idea of a bunch of French nomads coming across the tunnel, only to find an automated representative of Vault-Tech UK greeting them and asking for an access code rather amusing.
I'm not sure this is exactly what you are looking for, but I thought I might try and contribute something at least.
I did it in Inkscape, like almost everything I do, so you could have the vector file if you wanted. For the moment, here is the untextured version. Here's a clear version of the roundel, if you want to do anything with it. The font was Monofonto, which apparently is close to the font used in the Fallout logo.
As for texturing, I just used a "grunge" texture I've used on flags before, this one I believe. I set it to partially transparent and layer it over the image. If it's not rectangular, I used Inkscape to set a clip to only include the bit over the logo.
Have you come to a decision on if you are including a Vault-analogue in the UK? I would suggest that, unlike in the US where the Vaults were left to one corporation, in the UK it would be more likely to be some sort of government-backed system that would construct large shelters under major cities. The Vaults are such a large part of the Fallout-verse, it would be a shame not to have some. Probably without the various psychological experiments though, perhaps some new twist?
Krall
Banned
Aha! Thank you for the resources!
I did think of a bunker system in the UK, but nothing quite as extensive as the Vaults. Government bunkers in OTL were never meant to stay closed for several years - just a few months - so most of the bunkers (as I originally conceived them) would be meant to protect people from the initial bombing only, instead of keeping them isolated for years. Richer people would be able to afford to have their own bunkers built, so there would be several private bunkers dotted about, but the lower classes would have to rely on bunkers built for them by the government, or their own make-shift bunkers. Make-shift bunkers might protect people from post-nuclear fires or from the blast wave (if they were suitably far away from the epicentre), but it probably wouldn't be sealed to the point where it would prevent the occupants from becoming Ghouls. The government-built Civil Defence bunkers probably wouldn't be very well built, but they'd provide more protection than makeshift bunkers, though they would probably be very crowded and understocked. Due to the poor nature of these bunkers it's likely that a significant number of the people who survived the initial nuclear attack would become ghouls.
As for something more like the Vaults - social experiments that aren't meant to save anyone - well, I don't see why there wouldn't be something like that. In the US the Vaults were made by the Enclave in order to gather data on what kind of people and what kind of society would be best at recolonising the wasteland (or, if Earth proved uninhabitable, another planet), I see no reason why something similar could have been done in Britain, though I'd like it to be something unique (and, preferably, uniquely British), instead of a direct copy of the American experiments, but I honestly can't think of anything right now. It's probably because I need to sleep.
For Fallout : Italia, i tought about how would Vaults could be implemented in Europe.
I decided that the European Commonwhealth could have made some experimental, more little than americans one, Vaults. But because of its dissolution, governments could have seized them or even scientists or ex-EC workers for their families.
In the other hand I "created" Vault-Tec Europe, a branch of Vault-Tec that made even more randomic and dangerous (even by pre-Enclave standarts) experiments. It was both to cover US government plans (To spaaaaaace!) and to make profits.
Of course, in post EC times, stronger states could have desinged their own Vaults, provoking even more Ressources war to gain enough material to build them.
Besides, the lack of private Vaults (made for smaller populations) in America was due to the ties between pre-Enclave and Vault-Tec. Probably that elsewhere, it would be different.
I've right now a mental picture for China : "No Vault, because the tought of Chairman Cheng would protect us from radiations".
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Foxes and Badgers could give you some interesting dangerous creatures to mess around with. Also given the large number of dogs and the relative isolation you could have not only wild dogs but also some breeds having their attributes exaggerated by the radiation.
The oil rigs being made useless could mean that private businesses and the rich bought them for their own useas bunkers or storage. Or you could go with the idea of a weapon system keeping Britain isolated then they could be weapons platforms.
I think first thing you need to do is flesh out the timeline first from 1945 onwards special attention to the EC and Resource Wars so that you have a good idea of what British society is like before the war.
The oil rigs being made useless could mean that private businesses and the rich bought them for their own useas bunkers or storage. Or you could go with the idea of a weapon system keeping Britain isolated then they could be weapons platforms.
I think first thing you need to do is flesh out the timeline first from 1945 onwards special attention to the EC and Resource Wars so that you have a good idea of what British society is like before the war.
Thande
Donor
The UK is known for its nuclear bunkers in real life, in particular the citadels under London and TURNSTILE, the alternative seat of government built somewhere under the Cotswolds. Intended as evacuation for the royal family and the government respectively.
You could play upon these by having a sealed-in London society in the citadels--maybe still with the royal family, and based on a half-remembered version of London popular culture--I'm thinking of the set design of the 'Starship UK' in the Doctor Who episode "The Beast Below". Meanwhile there's some sort of strawman democracy-obsessed society based out of TURNSTILE derived from the fact that it is descended mostly from surviving MPs, civil servants and parliamentary staff.
You could play upon these by having a sealed-in London society in the citadels--maybe still with the royal family, and based on a half-remembered version of London popular culture--I'm thinking of the set design of the 'Starship UK' in the Doctor Who episode "The Beast Below". Meanwhile there's some sort of strawman democracy-obsessed society based out of TURNSTILE derived from the fact that it is descended mostly from surviving MPs, civil servants and parliamentary staff.
Giysqun Wilde
Banned
Anyone have a map of London if the sea level should raise by three meters and the levees at the mouth of the Thames break? They could have attempted to drown the Ghouls. Ireland may be an interesting area, depending if they had any NATO bases on it.
well it was left out alot, cos the information was lost during the whole war...
guessing from the info supplied america became isolationist rather than entering into a major cold war with the ussr, and europe had to stand on its own two feet, so they formed the european commonwealth to stand against the ussr
we know nothing of how anyone else developed...we havent even heard of any nations below the equator yet
Krall
Banned
Well, I did write a huge wall of text describing the strange idea for London in response to Thande's post, and then my computer decided to BSoD on me. I'll try again (though I doubt it will be any shorter than it was before - I have a problem with brevity).
The Royal Family are evacuated to Hawthorn (also known as Turnstile, and about fifty other things) along with the Cabinet, PM, military commanders and about 4,000 staff before the war. They try to establish continuity of governance after the nuclear war, but damage to infrastructure means they can't establish direct authority beyond their immediate vicinity. The Regional Government Head Quarters (RGHQs) they set up to administer various parts of the country in their stead prove ineffective due to a number of reasons (e.g. being hit by a nuclear explosion, being unfinished, being understaffed, the relevant staff not evacuating to the RGHQ bunkers when the siren sounded due to the "cry wolf" effect, damage to infrastructure, opposition from the locals, and so forth), so no continuity of government is established beyond Wiltshire and the surrounding area.
Now, in London some government staff would have taken cover in the citadels under the city, but many don't survive the initial nuclear barrage. A significant portion of Londoners survive in makeshift and Civil Defence bunkers, but these bunkers are of poor quality, and so many Londoners become Ghouls.
With the British government (henceforth referred to as the Wiltshire government) stuck in Wiltshire, London's RGHQ (Kelvedon Hatch) ineffective, and few surviving government officials in London, London is without an official government. Instead of breaking off on their own, they evolve into a semi-anarchic society, where various voluntary organisations (some formalised, others informal and ad hoc) maintain the society and the city they live in. At first they believe this is a temporary state of affairs whilst they wait for the Wiltshire government to organise itself and reincorporate London. Many Londoners listen to radio transmissions from the Wiltshire government, assuring them that they're coming and keeping them abreast of new developments. These messages also implore Britons to stay vigilant in the fact of the horrifying mutants that roam the land - most Londoners assume they mean the mutant dogs, foxes, etc., but some theorise they're referring to the Ghouls, who have become respected and knowledgeable members of London society.
When the Wiltshire government gets round to properly contacting London, many Londoners are hostile as they feel that they were betrayed by the government, who fled London leaving them to fend for themselves. They're not actively hostile, though, and they show no hostility in their initial meetings with the Wiltshire authorities beyond "Well you took your bloody time!". However, the Wiltshire government reveals that they do indeed mean the Ghouls when referring to "horrifying mutants", this offends the many well respected Ghouls in London society, and turns many Londoners against the Wiltshire government.
Unable to negotiate the peaceful incorporation of London, the Wiltshire government invades, believing that the Londoners would willingly accept them and it was only their leaders who were hostile. This proves incorrect, and the Londoners utilise their knowledge of the London subterranean structures to conduct a guerilla campaign against the invading Wiltshire forces. This campaign is successful, and the Wiltshire government withdraws, promising not to set foot in the Greater London area unless the people of London wish it so.
The current state of London is called the "London Anarchy" (though many Londoners prefer the "London Freedom", due to the fact that anarchy is usually incorrectly used to indicate lawlessness and savagery). There is no official or centralised government authority, but a series of co-operating voluntary organisations that maintain society. The most powerful of these are the Police/Civil Defence authority, who maintain order; the guild of merchants that trade on the Londoners' behalf; and an organisation whose sole role is to deal with governments from outside London (mainly Wiltshire), who're mainly concerned with the setting up of trade posts and the regulation of movement of foreign government/military officials. The government agencies that survived in London have kept their names, but have become caretakers who maintain government buildings, as well as vast repositories of knowledge and technology (sort of like the Brotherhood of Steel, but different due to having evolved out of a bureaucracy instead of a military).
Londoners mainly live in the network of tunnels and buildings under London, but many of them also live above ground, generally in small communities around the entrances to the underground.
I've also thought I should do something with Britain's more famous ports. Portsmouth would probably be absorbed into the Wiltshire government, and I've no idea what to do with Liverpool (or Manchester, or Birmingham, or that whole region), but I had an idea for what to do with Scapa Flow. Fallout canon states that the world's oil dried up some time before the war, so presumably Britain would have to either scrap or convert its oil-powered navy. I was thinking that some or all of the obsolete ships could be anchored in Scapa Flow whilst they await renovation or scrapping, with a large number of them still being there when the war broke out. After the war, the people of Orkney would start trying to salvage anything useful from the ships, before some of the decided that it might actually be easier to just live on the ships themselves. Over time the anchored ships would be moved close together and attached to one another. Structures would be built on their decks, and they would be connected to the mainland by rope bridges and gangplanks, resulting in a floating city sitting in Scapa Flow.
I'm still not sure what to do with most of the Midlands, though.
The Royal Family are evacuated to Hawthorn (also known as Turnstile, and about fifty other things) along with the Cabinet, PM, military commanders and about 4,000 staff before the war. They try to establish continuity of governance after the nuclear war, but damage to infrastructure means they can't establish direct authority beyond their immediate vicinity. The Regional Government Head Quarters (RGHQs) they set up to administer various parts of the country in their stead prove ineffective due to a number of reasons (e.g. being hit by a nuclear explosion, being unfinished, being understaffed, the relevant staff not evacuating to the RGHQ bunkers when the siren sounded due to the "cry wolf" effect, damage to infrastructure, opposition from the locals, and so forth), so no continuity of government is established beyond Wiltshire and the surrounding area.
Now, in London some government staff would have taken cover in the citadels under the city, but many don't survive the initial nuclear barrage. A significant portion of Londoners survive in makeshift and Civil Defence bunkers, but these bunkers are of poor quality, and so many Londoners become Ghouls.
With the British government (henceforth referred to as the Wiltshire government) stuck in Wiltshire, London's RGHQ (Kelvedon Hatch) ineffective, and few surviving government officials in London, London is without an official government. Instead of breaking off on their own, they evolve into a semi-anarchic society, where various voluntary organisations (some formalised, others informal and ad hoc) maintain the society and the city they live in. At first they believe this is a temporary state of affairs whilst they wait for the Wiltshire government to organise itself and reincorporate London. Many Londoners listen to radio transmissions from the Wiltshire government, assuring them that they're coming and keeping them abreast of new developments. These messages also implore Britons to stay vigilant in the fact of the horrifying mutants that roam the land - most Londoners assume they mean the mutant dogs, foxes, etc., but some theorise they're referring to the Ghouls, who have become respected and knowledgeable members of London society.
When the Wiltshire government gets round to properly contacting London, many Londoners are hostile as they feel that they were betrayed by the government, who fled London leaving them to fend for themselves. They're not actively hostile, though, and they show no hostility in their initial meetings with the Wiltshire authorities beyond "Well you took your bloody time!". However, the Wiltshire government reveals that they do indeed mean the Ghouls when referring to "horrifying mutants", this offends the many well respected Ghouls in London society, and turns many Londoners against the Wiltshire government.
Unable to negotiate the peaceful incorporation of London, the Wiltshire government invades, believing that the Londoners would willingly accept them and it was only their leaders who were hostile. This proves incorrect, and the Londoners utilise their knowledge of the London subterranean structures to conduct a guerilla campaign against the invading Wiltshire forces. This campaign is successful, and the Wiltshire government withdraws, promising not to set foot in the Greater London area unless the people of London wish it so.
The current state of London is called the "London Anarchy" (though many Londoners prefer the "London Freedom", due to the fact that anarchy is usually incorrectly used to indicate lawlessness and savagery). There is no official or centralised government authority, but a series of co-operating voluntary organisations that maintain society. The most powerful of these are the Police/Civil Defence authority, who maintain order; the guild of merchants that trade on the Londoners' behalf; and an organisation whose sole role is to deal with governments from outside London (mainly Wiltshire), who're mainly concerned with the setting up of trade posts and the regulation of movement of foreign government/military officials. The government agencies that survived in London have kept their names, but have become caretakers who maintain government buildings, as well as vast repositories of knowledge and technology (sort of like the Brotherhood of Steel, but different due to having evolved out of a bureaucracy instead of a military).
Londoners mainly live in the network of tunnels and buildings under London, but many of them also live above ground, generally in small communities around the entrances to the underground.
I've also thought I should do something with Britain's more famous ports. Portsmouth would probably be absorbed into the Wiltshire government, and I've no idea what to do with Liverpool (or Manchester, or Birmingham, or that whole region), but I had an idea for what to do with Scapa Flow. Fallout canon states that the world's oil dried up some time before the war, so presumably Britain would have to either scrap or convert its oil-powered navy. I was thinking that some or all of the obsolete ships could be anchored in Scapa Flow whilst they await renovation or scrapping, with a large number of them still being there when the war broke out. After the war, the people of Orkney would start trying to salvage anything useful from the ships, before some of the decided that it might actually be easier to just live on the ships themselves. Over time the anchored ships would be moved close together and attached to one another. Structures would be built on their decks, and they would be connected to the mainland by rope bridges and gangplanks, resulting in a floating city sitting in Scapa Flow.
I'm still not sure what to do with most of the Midlands, though.
Strangely, despite my fallout obession, I honestly haven't been able to think of anything of meaningful to add. Just so you know I really like where this is going and am watching with great interest.
edit: keep in mind the nukes caused a lot of nasty weather effects so there might be almost empty places wracked by horrible radioactive weather. Also for somereason I see the the midlands being called the Middle Lands (Stuff in fallout tends to get renamed a lot, Scramento got renamed Sac Town for one.)
edit: keep in mind the nukes caused a lot of nasty weather effects so there might be almost empty places wracked by horrible radioactive weather. Also for somereason I see the the midlands being called the Middle Lands (Stuff in fallout tends to get renamed a lot, Scramento got renamed Sac Town for one.)
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Thande
Donor
Krall's ideas seem pretty cool. Not sure what to do about the Midlands. How about this: Wales survives better than most places due to the number of out-of-the-way, fairly self-sufficient rural places in North Wales and fewer nuclear targets; the Midlands on the other hands, with its big cities, air bases and industry, gets nuked a lot and there are relatively few survivors; and so you have a Welsh state with suzerainty over a load of radioactive Brummies and an ideology based on historical comparison--either the nice version of the Welsh-Mercian alliance under Cadwallader, or the nasty one of a 'Welsh Reconquista' of Lloegr from the English?
Actually according to the vault the UK was a part of the European Commonwealth.
And strangely that is the most ASB thing I have ever heard about fallout.