Fact Check Article: Prototype Nazi Nuclear Bombers Were Within a Few Months of Hitting New York

[Geon]

According to the article at this link:

Prototype Nazi Nuclear Bombers Were Within a Few Months of Hitting New York

Nazi Germany and Japan were well advanced in nuclear fission towards the end of WW2. Germany had perfected short range missiles and two stage long range missiles. They had also perfected a long range bomber that could reach the USA with their about to be perfected nuclear bomb. This gives some...

discover.hubpages.com

Nazi Germany was very close to both developing an atomic bomb and having a means to deliver said bomb (The Amerika Bomber).

The article states:

The intended target of the final bomb was to be downtown Manhattan and on 22nd August 1943 (the actual date is subject to some conjecture) a prototype of the 6 engine Junkers JU-390 V2 bomber took off from Norway and flew via Canada on a secret photo-recon mission of American manufacturing capability in Michigan and to test the feasibility of dropping a nuclear bomb on New York. This used the considerable experience gained from the FW 200 and its transatlantic flights. The 32 hour round flight went completely undetected as the bomber flew to within 12 miles of its target (America was totally unprepared for air-raids, with no civilian shelters or anti-aircraft guns) and returned to a Luftwaffe Mont-de-Marsan airfield near Paris, a round trip of some 6,000 miles.

So, how close were the Nazis really to seeing this nightmare vision of theirs realized?

 

[CV12Hornet]

Not close in the slightest.

For one, the alleged Ju 390 flight has zero backing in any sort of reliable sources. The people who cite it are citing secondary sources that do not have any serious primary source backing. It has also been debunked by German authors:

Karl Kössler and Günter Ott, in their book Die großen Dessauer: Junkers Ju 89, 90, 290, 390. Die Geschichte einer Flugzeugfamilie (The Big Dessauers... History of an Aircraft Family), also examined the claimed flight and debunked the flight north of New York. Assuming there was only one aircraft in existence, Kössler and Ott note it was nowhere near France at the time when the flight was supposed to have taken place. According to Pancherz' logbook, the Ju 390 V1 was brought to Prague on 26 November 1943. While there, it took part in test flights which continued until late March 1944.[6] They also assert that the Ju 390 V1 prototype was unlikely to have been capable of taking off with the fuel load necessary for a flight of such duration due to strength concerns over its modified structure; it would have required a takeoff weight of 65 t (72 short tons), while the maximum takeoff weight during its trials had been 34 t (37 short tons). Another explanation for this is that prototypes are never flown at maximum gross weight for their maiden flight until testing can determine the aircraft's handling. According to Kössler and Ott, the Ju 390 V2 could not have made the US flight either, since they indicate that it was not completed before September/October 1944.

For another, the Nazis were nowhere close to an atomic bomb. I've read transcripts on what German nuclear scientists said when they heard the US had dropped an atomic bomb, and also read up on the lengths the Manhattan project had to go to to get sufficient fissile material, and my conclusion is that, lacking any consideration of plutonium implosion for their bombs, the Germans did not have the resources to gather enough enriched uranium for a bomb in any sort of timely fashion.

 

[M79]

Debatable. There are still files from the end of the war that are not easily accessible, even today. CIOS 125 etc. They were developing new weapons and techologies but where the prototypes begin vs where the design stage ends is debatable. Of course Kammler disappears at war's end and no one knows where he went or if he died etc., but several reports noted that he had a plane full of people and at least a few prototypes that got to Spain of not further.

Are you sure it is an atomic bomb?

 

[Geon]

Debatable. There are still files from the end of the war that are not easily accessible, even today. CIOS 125 etc. They were developing new weapons and techologies but where the prototypes begin vs where the design stage ends is debatable. Of course Kammler disappears at war's end and no one knows where he went or if he died etc., but several reports noted that he had a plane full of people and at least a few prototypes that got to Spain of not further.

Are you sure it is an atomic bomb?

The article seems to imply that German and Japanese research was within a few months of a workable nuclear device.

 

[DrakonFin]

Not close in the slightest.

For one, the alleged Ju 390 flight has zero backing in any sort of reliable sources. The people who cite it are citing secondary sources that do not have any serious primary source backing. It has also been debunked by German authors:

For another, the Nazis were nowhere close to an atomic bomb. I've read transcripts on what German nuclear scientists said when they heard the US had dropped an atomic bomb, and also read up on the lengths the Manhattan project had to go to to get sufficient fissile material, and my conclusion is that, lacking any consideration of plutonium implosion for their bombs, the Germans did not have the resources to gather enough enriched uranium for a bomb in any sort of timely fashion.

Agreed. There are many things about the article that don't pan out in the slightest. It is a collection of misunderstandings, half-truths and pure lies. Just to point out one thing among many, the author claims that a female pilot by the name of Anna Kreisling (called "the White Wolf of the Luftwaffe") was a member of the crew. There are many stories floating around the interwebs about Anna Kreisling. But apparently she is an entirely fictional character.

A very interesting blog post (of a series of three) about the airplanes in question and their alleged, not to say mythical, flights, and about the mysterious "Anna Kreisling".

 

[jlckansas]

Debatable. There are still files from the end of the war that are not easily accessible, even today. CIOS 125 etc. They were developing new weapons and techologies but where the prototypes begin vs where the design stage ends is debatable. Of course Kammler disappears at war's end and no one knows where he went or if he died etc., but several reports noted that he had a plane full of people and at least a few prototypes that got to Spain of not further.

Are you sure it is an atomic bomb?

Secret base in Antarctica or the moon? LOL.

The Nazi's did not have the amount of fissile material available to make even a simple gun bomb at anytime during the war. They were so fixated on Heavy Water reactions that even then they were lacking material to make anything other than a small reactor. There ideas were bases on needing more than a ton of material to even have a decent chain reaction to produce an explosion.

Richard Rhodes discussed this in his first book "The Making of the Atomic Bomb".

 

[Resurgam]

I know there are rumors of a flight that got close enough to take a picture of Long Island and make out Manhattan on the horizon - but that’s as far as the little evidence goes.

 

[Resurgam]

Richard Rhodes discussed this in his first book "The Making of the Atomic Bomb".

That’s on my ever growing “I should read that” list. Should I?

 

[jlckansas]

That’s on my ever growing “I should read that” list. Should I?

YES. also his follow up for the H bomb " Dark Sun"

 

[Resurgam]

YES. also his follow up for the H bomb " Dark Sun"

Roger.

 

[Geon]

I know there are rumors of a flight that got close enough to take a picture of Long Island and make out Manhattan on the horizon - but that’s as far as the little evidence goes.

@Resurgam could the flight you refer to be the same flight referred to by @DrakonFin in the blog link he gave above? It sounds suspiciously like the story those RAF pilots told that American journalist. And I am guessing there are no primary sources of evidence for that flight?

 

[Mad Bad Rabbit]

This is about as reliable as the claims the Nazis were building an antigravity flying saucer ("Die Glocke")

 

[Garrison]

According to the article at this link:

Prototype Nazi Nuclear Bombers Were Within a Few Months of Hitting New York

Nazi Germany and Japan were well advanced in nuclear fission towards the end of WW2. Germany had perfected short range missiles and two stage long range missiles. They had also perfected a long range bomber that could reach the USA with their about to be perfected nuclear bomb. This gives some...

discover.hubpages.com

Nazi Germany was very close to both developing an atomic bomb and having a means to deliver said bomb (The Amerika Bomber).

The article states:

The intended target of the final bomb was to be downtown Manhattan and on 22nd August 1943 (the actual date is subject to some conjecture) a prototype of the 6 engine Junkers JU-390 V2 bomber took off from Norway and flew via Canada on a secret photo-recon mission of American manufacturing capability in Michigan and to test the feasibility of dropping a nuclear bomb on New York. This used the considerable experience gained from the FW 200 and its transatlantic flights. The 32 hour round flight went completely undetected as the bomber flew to within 12 miles of its target (America was totally unprepared for air-raids, with no civilian shelters or anti-aircraft guns) and returned to a Luftwaffe Mont-de-Marsan airfield near Paris, a round trip of some 6,000 miles.

So, how close were the Nazis really to seeing this nightmare vision of theirs realized?

Only if someone mistakes the ending of Captain America: The First Avenger for a documentary.

A slightly less sarcastic rebuttal is that the Germans had failed to grasp Graphite was an acceptable moderator for nuclear reactors and instead fixated on heavy water. Add to that Heisenberg's massive miscalculation that concluded a tonne of enriched Uranium would be needed for a bomb and the fact that the Allies were keeping a close watch for any signs of a German bomb and were willing to do anything to derail them and there is no chance of a Nazi A-Bomb.

 

[Geon]

Agreed. There are many things about the article that don't pan out in the slightest. It is a collection of misunderstandings, half-truths and pure lies. Just to point out one thing among many, the author claims that a female pilot by the name of Anna Kreisling (called "the White Wolf of the Luftwaffe") was a member of the crew. There are many stories floating around the interwebs about Anna Kreisling. But apparently she is an entirely fictional character.

A very interesting blog post (of a series of three) about the airplanes in question and their alleged, not to say mythical, flights, and about the mysterious "Anna Kreisling".

I wonder if Ann Kreisling might not be a psuedonym for Hanna Reitsch, whose career was nothing short of incredible. The parallels between the two are interesting.

 

[DrakonFin]

I wonder if Ann Kreisling might not be a psuedonym for Hanna Reitsch, whose career was nothing short of incredible. The parallels between the two are interesting.

I'd say that Anna Kreisling is definitely modelled on Hanna Reitsch. But in general, I am convinced she never existed.

 

[marathag]

The article seems to imply that German and Japanese research was within a few months of a workable nuclear device.

Germany hadn't created as much pure Uranium Metal(note not enriched, just U-238) as the US had in 1942.
Japanese theory, however, was far in advance of the Germans. They just didn't have the resources.

 

[Changundramon]

Germany hadn't created as much pure Uranium Metal(note not enriched, just U-238) as the US had in 1942.
Japanese theory, however, was far in advance of the Germans. They just didn't have the resources.

Actually, it was mentioned often on this site that two nuclear programs wasted resources a single one would not. (IJA/IJN rivalry)

 

[marathag]

And they were still far ahead of the Germans on theory.
They knew within hours that it had been an Atomic Bomb on Hiroshima

 

[Deleted member 94680]

Add to that Heisenberg's massive miscalculation that concluded a tonne of enriched Uranium would be needed for a bomb and the fact that the Allies were keeping a close watch for any signs of a German bomb and were willing to do anything to derail them and there is no chance of a Nazi A-Bomb.

I just watched The Catcher Was A Spy last night about Moe Berg the American baseball player who joined the OSS during WWII. One of his missions was to go to Switzerland and listen to a lecture by Heisenberg to ascertain the depth of the Nazi’s nuclear programme. If Heisenberg showed that the Nazis were close, Berg was to assassinate him. He listened the lecture and deduced that the Nazis were nowhere close.

Within Germany, the programme itself was swiftly downgraded from a weapons project as the constraints of the War demanded scientists were used somewhere else. In the end, they progressed with the project as a means of power generation rather than pure military use.

Heisenberg said in 1939 that the physicists at the (second) meeting said that "in principle atomic bombs could be made.... it would take years.... not before five." He said, "I didn't report it to the Führer until two weeks later and very casually because I did not want the Führer to get so interested that he would order great efforts immediately to make the atomic bomb. Speer felt it was better that the whole thing should be dropped and the Führer also reacted that way." (wiki)

 

[CalBear]

Since the Reich had effectively NO nuclear weapons programs. They had given up, largely because of a couple basic math errors that they never did discover. Since it too the Soviets, who had been given both tons of basic research from spies AND had the knowledge that the damned thing could be done took four years (in a country that was NOT have the pougies blown out of it by the CBO and with resources that the Reich could only weep to imagine). it is fair to say the author is... over optimistic.