Effects of no Islam on the British Isles

irishrealist

I know this is a scenario that has been done before many times, but I haven’t seen anything that goes into detail about how the British Isles would’ve shaped up if Islam never existed. Islam has had very little impact on the islands in OTL until very recently.

Let’s say with a POD in 610 Muhammad is killed in some accident, nothing is changed up until that point. How would a lack of Islam affect Great Britain and Ireland?

Would the Anglo-Saxons still have united into an English kingdom? Would the Norman conquest have taken place in 1066? Would Scotland develop as an independent country? Would Ireland be considered more core British or would they still gain independence? Would the UK as we know it even exist?
 

Silver01

well i certianly have a chapter waiting for them in ym timeline but lets see one thing we can say will occur is they become chirstian gregory the great mission began in 596 and it was not until 616 that we saw a pagan backlash given how none of the events in arabia had any effect outside of arabia until 630 things would stay the same the gregorian mission goes like the otl, really brittian is not affected as much if at all for the first decades given as how islam did not reach western europe well into the late 7th century.

the effect no islam would have is the frankish kingdom is affected, you can have many options from merovingian resurgance, to the caroligians still power which is still possible Pepin II was born just after the muslims attacked arabia but being on shaky ground as charles martel does not have the victory at tours to hype him up, it also depends were they seek to expand example the byzantine empire recovers well under Heraclius and Constans II, it is quite likely the avar khagante is doomed as it was already in massive decline also with the empire recovering the conversion of the slavs and avars to chirstianity would likely occur, meaning a frankish invasion is less likely same can be said with italy.

that in theory could mean franks concentrate in other areas if spain is still weak in the visigothic decline then they maybe concentrate there but and this the route i chose in my timeline with less options to attack the franks could see denmark as alternative, a frankish conquest or even campaings to the lords of denmark could have a massive impact on england as it delays and reduces the impact the viking age had on it, I had to do a lot of reading back then to the mess i got my self into making exactly this scenario of frankish subjugation of denmark to the point i asked a viking historian about it
 

John Fredrick Parker

Donor
A sort of roundabout way of asking the same question:

Anglo-Saxon England in 7th Century

So technically this is a thread discussing a No Islam TL (with a 632 PoD), but the focus of the discussion may or may not have need to make any mention of it -- the reason being, I’d like us to talk about Anglo-Saxon England in the 7th Century specifically, about its Christianization during said...
www.alternatehistory.com
 

Jürgen

Some people believe the Danish invasions of England started out mainly as proxy wars against the Franks. If this is true Franks who have to deal with stronger South European states may not overrun the Saxons and the Vikings may stay smaller scale raiders rather than full blown conquerors and settlers.
 

Rhymehouse

There shouldn't be a major effect (beyond butterflies and indirect changes). It's not like there was ever a historical Muslim war or Arab migration in the British Isles region. The British Empire would be a lot different in a no Islam timeline however.
 

Analytical Engine

irishrealist said:
Would no Islam have any effect on the existence of the Vikings and their presence in Britain and Ireland?
Click to expand...
Vikings were raiders. Raiders had existed in the North Sea and Baltic Sea areas for a long time. The Anglo-Saxons were raiders themselves

Part of the issue was the climate - Britain's climate is more hospitable on average than Scandinavia
 

Silver01

irishrealist said:
Would no Islam have any effect on the existence of the Vikings and their presence in Britain and Ireland?
Click to expand...
as mentioend in my comment the viking age as in conquest and settlers could be altered if the butterfly effect affected the franks and the denmark
 

Wyrd

Anglo-Saxon Paganism might last a few more decades just because of the butterfly effect. It would be interesting if pagan kingdoms managed to survive into the 8th century as opposed to isolated groups of pagans under Christian rule.

The urban landscape of Ireland would be definitely different though. No Islam means the markets that want to buy slaves from the Vikings (or their middlemen) aren't as large as OTL*. There wouldn't be the same incentive for the Vikings to set up slave-trafficking ports like Dublin, Limerick, and Waterford (at least not to the same extent as OTL).

*Presumably, the Byzantines wouldn't want Christian slaves. The Persians would be interested, but unless something dramatic happens, their empire will be smaller than the Caliphates and won't want as many slaves.
 
Marc Anthony

Marc Anthony

Wyrd said:
Anglo-Saxon Paganism might last a few more decades just because of the butterfly effect. It would be interesting if pagan kingdoms managed to survive into the 8th century as opposed to isolated groups of pagans under Christian rule.

The urban landscape of Ireland would be definitely different though. No Islam means the markets that want to buy slaves from the Vikings (or their middlemen) aren't as large as OTL*. There wouldn't be the same incentive for the Vikings to set up slave-trafficking ports like Dublin, Limerick, and Waterford (at least not to the same extent as OTL).

*Presumably, the Byzantines wouldn't want Christian slaves. The Persians would be interested, but unless something dramatic happens, their empire will be smaller than the Caliphates and won't want as many slaves.
Click to expand...
If I recall correctly, Swedish Vikings sold many slaves in Constantinopole. So the demand was still around.
Also, whatever power rises in the non Islamic Magreb could still hunger for slaves
 

irishrealist

Would the Norman conquest have happened without Islam? Would the Normans even exist if Muhammad died before he became a ‘prophet’?
 

Kerney

Wyrd said:
The urban landscape of Ireland would be definitely different though. No Islam means the markets that want to buy slaves from the Vikings (or their middlemen) aren't as large as OTL*. There wouldn't be the same incentive for the Vikings to set up slave-trafficking ports like Dublin, Limerick, and Waterford (at least not to the same extent as OTL).

*Presumably, the Byzantines wouldn't want Christian slaves. The Persians would be interested, but unless something dramatic happens, their empire will be smaller than the Caliphates and won't want as many slaves.
Click to expand...
Byzantines had no problem buying Christian slaves and quite a few Irish made it to Greece.
 

Silver01

irishrealist said:
Would the Norman conquest have happened without Islam? Would the Normans even exist if Muhammad died before he became a ‘prophet’?
Click to expand...
the viking age was partially a lot due to climate change now wheter frankia sittuation is bad as the otl to settle them in Normandy that can change but given how dividing between sons is still a thing for the franks its still plausible
 
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