Edward VI a Catholic?

Aichi72

Inspired by a thread I saw about a Protestant Mary I, what if Edward VI was Catholic? I guess this question is two parter:

1. Is this actually plausible? What series of events could result in Edward VI ending up Catholic? I thought maybe a scenario where Jane lives past childbirth, but Henry and Jane's brothers all die shortly after Edward is born, leaving the regency to Norfolk and Suffolk(?) with the Catholic Jane raising Edward.

2. What would be the consequences in England and Europe? I assume England is bought back into Rome's fold, maybe Scotland stays Catholic as well? Could it have effects on the Dutch Revolt is the Catholic English refuse to support the Protestant rebels? Or could we see English intervention in France during the French Wars of Religion? (Edward or his heir pushing the French claim after Henri III is assassinated?)
 

UCB79

Aichi72 said:
Inspired by a thread I saw about a Protestant Mary I, what if Edward VI was Catholic? I guess this question is two parter:

1. Is this actually plausible? What series of events could result in Edward VI ending up Catholic? I thought maybe a scenario where Jane lives past childbirth, but Henry and Jane's brothers all die shortly after Edward is born, leaving the regency to Norfolk and Suffolk(?) with the Catholic Jane raising Edward.

2. What would be the consequences in England and Europe? I assume England is bought back into Rome's fold, maybe Scotland stays Catholic as well? Could it have effects on the Dutch Revolt is the Catholic English refuse to support the Protestant rebels? Or could we see English intervention in France during the French Wars of Religion? (Edward or his heir pushing the French claim after Henri III is assassinated?)
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I’m afraid it’s ASB unless Henry VIII appoints a completely different regency council- & even then, so many people had gotten ahold of spoils of the church thanks to dear old Harry that it would have taken a VERY tough & resolute ruler to overcome their opposition & reconcile England with Rome. But when he became King in 1547, Edward was only a nine-year old boy.
 
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Jan Olbracht

Christina of Sweden, daughter of Gustav Adolf, champion of Protestantism during 30YW, converted to Catholicism, shattering father's legacy. So I'd not sayCatholic E6 is impossible.
 

Lalli

UCB79 said:
I’m afraid it’s ASB unless Henry VIII appoints a completely different regency council- & even then, so many people had gotten ahold of spoils of the church thanks to dear old Harry that it would have taken a VERY tough & resolute ruler to reconcile to overcome their opposition & reconcile England with Rome. But when he became King in 1547, Edward was only a nine-year old boy.
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Why it would be ASB? Humans can change their religions. Like Jan Olbracht stated, queen Christina of Sweden converted and her father was even more extreme on protestantism than Henry VIII.
 

UCB79

Lalli said:
Why it would be ASB? Humans can change their religions. Like Jan Olbracht stated, queen Christina of Sweden converted and her father was even more extreme on protestantism than Henry VIII.
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But Christina converted only after she abdicated.
 

Kerney

Jane living and being semi influential in her son's life removes a big Protestant influence, Catherine Parr. H8 dying earlier not only effects Edward but potentially Elizabeth as well (who is probably not Catholic but merely less Protestant).

But H8 dying + Jane living + different influences= possible.

The other, is let him be raised as otl, or close but lives longer. There are some hint he wasn't completely stable (there's a report of him plucking a live hawk) but also also being very smart.

What if he realizes, maybe after doing something awful like putting his sister who he loves to death, he realizes that most of his advisors have taught him to be Protestant so that they can get rich off the monastaties and that he has been manipulated from birth to believe certain things to facilitate their greed. Maybe some other influence like his hot French Wife means he has a 'road to Damascus' moment and begins his instruction as an adult and woe to those who have not only endangered his soul but the souls of his subjects for their greed.

Deus Volt! Bitches.
 
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Fabius Maximus

Aichi72 said:
2. What would be the consequences in England and Europe? I assume England is bought back into Rome's fold, maybe Scotland stays Catholic as well? Could it have effects on the Dutch Revolt is the Catholic English refuse to support the Protestant rebels? Or could we see English intervention in France during the French Wars of Religion? (Edward or his heir pushing the French claim after Henri III is assassinated?)
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Even a Catholic England might decide to support the Dutch rebels, depending on how threatened they feel by Spanish power.
UCB79 said:
I’m afraid it’s ASB unless Henry VIII appoints a completely different regency council- & even then, so many people had gotten ahold of spoils of the church thanks to dear old Harry that it would have taken a VERY tough & resolute ruler to reconcile to overcome their opposition & reconcile England with Rome. But when he became King in 1547, Edward was only a nine-year old boy.
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So reconcile with Rome but don't take back the old monastic land, like Mary did.
 

Mikestone8

UCB79 said:
I’m afraid it’s ASB unless Henry VIII appoints a completely different regency council- & even then, so many people had gotten ahold of spoils of the church thanks to dear old Harry that it would have taken a VERY tough & resolute ruler to reconcile to overcome their opposition & reconcile England with Rome. But when he became King in 1547, Edward was only a nine-year old boy.
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Have Henry VIII die in 1540-1, when the Howards were still a big influence, and the King was married to one of them. They might well control any Regency, and Edward is only abt three, so could easily be raised Catholic, or at least in his father's "Catholicism without the Pope" which might easily morph into Catholicism *with* the Pope.
 
JanWellem

JanWellem

Mikestone8 said:
Have Henry VIII die in 1540-1, when the Howards were still a big influence, and the King was married to one of them. They might well control any Regency, and Edward is only abt three, so could easily be raised Catholic, or at least in his father's "Catholicism without the Pope" which might easily morph into Catholicism *with* the Pope.
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Interestingly enough the result would still likely be known as Anglicanism, just as the French counterpart was known as Gallicanism, i.e. Catholicism accepting the Pope as a primus inter pares and spiritual leader of the whole church, but not a temporal superior to the local Lords Temporal and Spritual or the King.
 
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chornedsnorkack

Edward VI was not fully controlled by his handlers for a large and relevant part of his rule.
Remember, his birthday was 12th of October 1537.
By start of 1549, his regency council was quarrelling - Thomas Seymour against others, then most others against Edward Seymour.
By July 1537, the Regency Council was split on handling the Cornish Prayer Book Rebellion. Edward Seymour was inclined to offering pardons, other council members supported violence... and the 11 year old boy exercised his "casting vote" to side with his council behind his uncle´s back, and personally sign orders to get people killed. Which would not have happened (not in July yet) if the boy had been a good nephew.
After the overthrow of Edward Seymour, the day before King´s 12th birthday, there was a lot of uncertainty about religious course because the protectorate had been overthrown by a wide coalition of protestants and catholics. John Dudley (then Earl of Warwick) was not seriously committed on religion. Many people hoped, or feared, a backlash towards Catholic faith after the Protectorate of 1547-1547. Prominent conservatives in the Council coalition that had brought down Protector included Earls of Southampton and of Arundel.
OTL, the quarrels soon (by early 1550) resulted in rise of Warwick and of radical Protestants.
It seems that the personal choice of the 12 year old boy was decisive here.
In Spring 1550, the preteen was convinced by, and backed, Hooper, made Hooper bishop and backed Hooper´s position on vestments with really no members of the council actively prompting the lad.

Now imagine that instead of making his preteen revolt against his handlers´ timidity and conservativity and choosing to be radical Protestant - as he did in OTL - the preteen for some reason comes to resent his Protestant teachers, and when he starts to have a real influence (age 11 or so, as per OTL), chooses to back the most conservative/reactionary counsellors who are a serious option (plus a bit beyond).

What would happen? How far would he get?
 

Fabius Maximus

Piggy-backing somewhat off this thread: how would this affect Elizabeth's reign, assuming that Edward and Mary still both die without any heirs and Elizabeth's religious convictions are similar to IOTL? Would she be able to push through her Protestant policies in a country that hadn't spent the past two decades yo-yoing between different kinds of Christianity?
 

vandevere

Fabius Maximus said:
Piggy-backing somewhat off this thread: how would this affect Elizabeth's reign, assuming that Edward and Mary still both die without any heirs and Elizabeth's religious convictions are similar to IOTL? Would she be able to push through her Protestant policies in a country that hadn't spent the past two decades yo-yoing between different kinds of Christianity?
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Elizabeth was a pragmatic realist, and a very canny political player/survivor...

She would very likely choose the more politically expedient course, whatever that course turned out to be...
 

Kerney

vandevere said:
Elizabeth was a pragmatic realist, and a very canny political player/survivor...

She would very likely choose the more politically expedient course, whatever that course turned out to be...
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She would be further from the throne if Mary has kids (let's assume Mary marries in 1547, probably to an Englishman). Also, Elizabeth, if aligned in Protestantism because of politics she would be more Catholic in subtle ways.

She might also be the odd girl out, with Mary and Edward being closer. Also, depending on PoD, she might be less traumatized about the idea of marriage.
 

Fabius Maximus

vandevere said:
Elizabeth was a pragmatic realist, and a very canny political player/survivor...

She would very likely choose the more politically expedient course, whatever that course turned out to be...
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Elizabeth had quite a lot of difficulty getting the Act of Supremacy and Act of Uniformity through Parliament, indicating that there was little appetite for a return to Protestantism, even among the important people. In terms of political expediency, the best course would probably have been to lighten up the anti-Protestant persecutins but otherwise keep Mary's religious settlement more or less intact.
 

vandevere

Fabius Maximus said:
Elizabeth had quite a lot of difficulty getting the Act of Supremacy and Act of Uniformity through Parliament, indicating that there was little appetite for a return to Protestantism, even among the important people. In terms of political expediency, the best course would probably have been to lighten up the anti-Protestant persecutins but otherwise keep Mary's religious settlement more or less intact.
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That was Elizabeth I, Queen Regnant.

If Edward VI continues in good health, marries and produces issue, then Elizabeth might never become Queen. The course she steers here could be utterly different...
 

Fabius Maximus

vandevere said:
That was Elizabeth I, Queen Regnant.

If Edward VI continues in good health, marries and produces issue, then Elizabeth might never become Queen. The course she steers here could be utterly different...
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Well, the question I asked presupposed that Elizabeth becomes queen ITTL as well. Obviously if she never does, the whole question becomes moot.
 
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