Earlier US military expansion. 1936.
- Thread starter Carl Schwamberger
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More money toward turbochargers & turbocompounding, with an eye to jet engines, wouldn't hurt.
Building fuel stores & barracks on Midway to support the Sub Force would be a really good idea.
Improved defenses at Wake would be really good, too--but you have to wait for Japan to abrogate the Treaty, first...so maybe not starting til '37.
Increased building of Sargos would be really good. (An upgrade to *Tambor standard would be even better.)
Spending some $$ on live-fire trials of the Mark 14 & Mark 15 torpedoes would be a godsend. Some to develop a better air-drop fish to replace the troublous Mark 13 would, too. (Some thought to using the *Mark 17 in PTs would help.)
Money going to increased torpedo production would be good, too--&, if done right, would garner votes from Congresscritters in whose districts the torpedo factories would be located. (You need to tell Charlie Risk NTS won't be cut back, first.)
One possible option is buying Winton or Fairbanks-Morse diesels instead of the terrible HOR or MAN-licenced engines...
Building fuel stores & barracks on Midway to support the Sub Force would be a really good idea.
Improved defenses at Wake would be really good, too--but you have to wait for Japan to abrogate the Treaty, first...so maybe not starting til '37.
Increased building of Sargos would be really good. (An upgrade to *Tambor standard would be even better.)
Spending some $$ on live-fire trials of the Mark 14 & Mark 15 torpedoes would be a godsend. Some to develop a better air-drop fish to replace the troublous Mark 13 would, too. (Some thought to using the *Mark 17 in PTs would help.)
Money going to increased torpedo production would be good, too--&, if done right, would garner votes from Congresscritters in whose districts the torpedo factories would be located. (You need to tell Charlie Risk NTS won't be cut back, first.)
I would think they'd go into DDs & DEs, first.
One possible option is buying Winton or Fairbanks-Morse diesels instead of the terrible HOR or MAN-licenced engines...
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Re:: Midway, requires the same dedging as Wake, Also see my previous comment.. you need additional tenders and trained experienced. Increased torpedo production is useless, unless the torpedoes are tested, the flaws found and then fixed. That alone would be a major POD, for a timeline.
It only removes the restrictions if the politicians agree that Japan isn't going to be persuaded to come back into the treaties (even if potentially unofficially) everybody higher up assumed that Japan would be brought back in. Japan didn't help to dispel these thought naturally and the individual Japanese negotiators may actually have wanted to rejoin personally so helped that. Since the board could only really work on so many designs at once it had to work on the most likely to be authorised so treaty limited sizes continued to dominate until much later.
I'm not clear why you think so. (I wouldn't disagree they're desirable.) OTL, an existing tender was moved; TTL, I see no reason that need change. What I'm proposing is turning Midway into a sub fuelling & victualling station, & crew rest stop, sooner, not so much going bigger.
Notice I did advocate for live fire testing. However, more produced means more fired means more chances of uncovering the flaws. (It also means the sub minelaying campaign, which was really quite successful, doesn't get the same emphasis: more torpedoes available means less need for mining.) Plus, it's possible the factories could turn over to production of the Mark 10. (IDK if all S-boats were being supplied from stockpiles.)
It would indeed.
And more escorts early means no 2nd Happy Time
Unfortunately it was not so simple as lack of escorts. Bur yes, wit more escorts the damage is not so great.
What happens to a/c procurement? Presumably more B-17s get built; does MacArthur get the 300 planned? (Does he get enough to deter Japan?) Are there more P-40s? Enough for Britain &/or France to get a few 100 each before Germany overruns France?
Does the B-24 happen sooner? Does the P-38? (Does the AAF listen to NACA? {Plug
}) Does it improve the V1710? (Unabashed plug)
Are enough new fleet boats built to replace all the S-boats in service? (This would free up a lot of skilled manpower, not to mention all the Mark X torpedoes...)
Does the B-24 happen sooner? Does the P-38? (Does the AAF listen to NACA? {Plug
}) Does it improve the V1710? (Unabashed plug)Are enough new fleet boats built to replace all the S-boats in service? (This would free up a lot of skilled manpower, not to mention all the Mark X torpedoes...)
In regards to actual testing of the Mk14... I'm not entirely sure an actual test would be enough to uncover all of the many flaws, or even start the process. Though notably, "it's all the skippers fault!!" is not going to fly remotely as well when it happens at an official weapons test under controlled conditions. And presumably being observed by senior officers.
It might not, at that, depending on where the test was done: the magnetic feature might work perfectly well at certain latitudes (and did in OTL trials), but not in the areas it was actually used in action.
That said, finding out the Mark XIV ran 10' deeper than set would have helped. Finding out the contact pistol was no good would absolutely have, even presuming the magnetic feature was taken to be working as advertised.
In short, simple trials would have enabled BuOrd to give the Sub Force a fish that could readily have been made to work correctly once the war started, just by having them deactivate the magnetic feature, rather than compel the Sub Force to find the flaws themselves...
Of course, having BuOrd simply add a larger warhead to the Mark X would have been simpler still....
(Powering it with enriched air or low-test hydrogen peroxide, per the Mark 16, might have been good, too.)Maybe. At least close. Half that many were certain by February OTL.
I doubt it. The Japanese over estimated the capabilities of bombers, despite experience in Chins, and the attacked anyway.
Perhaps, but this depends more on when the Neutrality Acts are repealed, which OTL the final barrier was not removed until after the war started in 1939. No one could place orders for war material or put money down until that occurred.
Does the B-24 happen sooner? Does the P-38? (Does the AAF listen to NACA? {Plug
A little. We have to keep in mind that while spending increases there are some R & D & investment factors that may not accelerate. The influx of European defense money in late 1939 was as important as the amounts Congress cut loose. Only if the Neutrality Acts are repealed earlier can European arms cash flow into US industry.
The S boats still had a role in USN doctrine, in coastal or point defense. Thats one reason why so many were based in PI. Those were in theory the most useful contribution the USN could directly make to the islands defense from the perspective of the 1920s or 30s.
I am favoring the remarks made here how mass production would not instantly appear with the budget increases advanced 2-3 years. The amount was not enough for the sort of production goals of 1941-43, nor was the engineering talent and production labor in place.
It really depends on who is in charge. I've done a bit of contrasting reading on the personalities running the naval gun development vs those in charge of torpedoes. Those like Reeves seem to be more capable. If we are lucky the guys making the bad decisions for torpedoes move on & their replacements are more perceptive.
As I said, there's a bit of a difference between a sub on a war patrol having shitty torpedoes and a sub in a major weapons test, one presumably attended by plenty of observers and presumably some senior officers of the sub branch, having a half dozen duds and one premature detonation. And you're absolutely not getting away with "It's all the captain's fault!" when these senior officers were there and watching the whole damn thing happen. At the VERY least I would expect a major investigation into the manufacturing to see if there's a bum production line or something.
Admiral Beez
Banned
There's no battle that the North Carolinas participated in where 14" guns would not have been sufficient. They couldn't have known that of course, but we know it'll all be fine - heck the greater weight given to protection may help USS Washington at Guadalcanal.
One small problem - one of the chief torpedo developers behind the US systems blocked a lot of the investigation into his P.O.S. design. Oddly enough same guy designed a viable oxygen-driven torpedo in the 1920s but it got either rejected or shelved.
Do you mean one Ralph Waldo Christie? He did interfere with Sub Force efforts to uncover the problems & forbade his skippers (in his Oz command) from deactivating the Mark 6's magnetic feature, because he disbelieved the design team (which he'd headed, IIRC) had gotten it wrong. I'm unaware of him being part of an oxygen drive project, tho I recall BuOrd had worked on something they called the G-49, which used peroxide (Navol?), & rejected it, calling the fuel too dangerous. (I may be conflating the 2; Blair may have, also...) That peroxide was inherently more dangerous than alcohol, or TNT, I'm not so sure about--given the torpedoes were designed for it & crews properly trained.
I doubted it, too, but it needed to be asked.
Noted.
In ref both the B-24 & P-38 being earlier, I'm thinking the AAF sees a need (since IIRC both were to AAF contracts), just buys earlier (with $ to spend v OTL not).
I'm not suggesting the fleet boats would replace the S-boats in P.I. prewar as much as once it starts. Neither do I mean the construction rate would be equal wartime, only up to the late OTL, which is roughly double what it was in '36. So, for '37-9, 8 Sargos/yr instead of 4; for '40-1, 16. (Maybe 16 in '39, too.) Or introduce Tambor earlier & build them from '38 on.
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Had a few thoughts on this I thought I might add since it impacts on a few PODs.
There were actually several people who thrived following the Wall Street Crash of 1929. One of these was Howard Hughes. He made a great deal of money at the start of the Great Depression (he had already been a millionaire at 18). If I remember correctly he made a lot of money during the air races of the early 1930s. He also angered quite a few other wealthy people. What if several of them banded together to offer a prize (similar to the X-Prize) to anyone who could build a cross country racer during this period and offered a substantial sum (for the day) of a million or more dollars, with the understanding that they would then be funded for future aircraft development.
Imagine J. Paul Getty buying Lockheed at this time (Fred Keeler sold 87% of the stock to Detroit Aircraft just before the crash). The company was bought out of receivership for $40,000 in 1932 in the OTL. Could make an interesting POD.
There were actually several people who thrived following the Wall Street Crash of 1929. One of these was Howard Hughes. He made a great deal of money at the start of the Great Depression (he had already been a millionaire at 18). If I remember correctly he made a lot of money during the air races of the early 1930s. He also angered quite a few other wealthy people. What if several of them banded together to offer a prize (similar to the X-Prize) to anyone who could build a cross country racer during this period and offered a substantial sum (for the day) of a million or more dollars, with the understanding that they would then be funded for future aircraft development.
Imagine J. Paul Getty buying Lockheed at this time (Fred Keeler sold 87% of the stock to Detroit Aircraft just before the crash). The company was bought out of receivership for $40,000 in 1932 in the OTL. Could make an interesting POD.
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