The last update was just before New Years, not long ago.... Patience good sir
Dublin 1922 - British attack Four Courts
- Thread starter theirishdreamer
- Start date
The last update was just before New Years, not long ago.... Patience good sir
theirishdreamer
Banned
yes
Yes there will. Though its a combination of real life and me have 3 stories running on the hop (2 here and 1 elsewhere cuz im a sucker for punishment
) and wanted to catch up on the implications of all the changes ITTL before the next update (about 1/2 way done at the moment) so another week or two hopefully.
This is the hardest one as I try to be reasonably accurate on events so apologies running abit slow
Yes there will. Though its a combination of real life and me have 3 stories running on the hop (2 here and 1 elsewhere cuz im a sucker for punishment
) and wanted to catch up on the implications of all the changes ITTL before the next update (about 1/2 way done at the moment) so another week or two hopefully. This is the hardest one as I try to be reasonably accurate on events so apologies running abit slow
theirishdreamer
Banned
hmmm
Apologies for the delay!
Work has gotten very busy the past few weeks so it'll be late March probably before I get back to the TL
If I get a bit of time I'll finish off my half done current one but sadly no promises for next week or so.
Apologies for the delay!
Work has gotten very busy the past few weeks so it'll be late March probably before I get back to the TL
If I get a bit of time I'll finish off my half done current one but sadly no promises for next week or so.
theirishdreamer
Banned
Chapter 83: From War to War
“Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Workingmen of all countries, unite!”
Karl Marx
Extract from: The Revolutionary State – The Soviet Union in the Thirties by David Trimble (Trinity Publishing 1976) (Trinity College) (Dublin) (Kingdom of Ireland)
....and due to this the 2nd Manchurian War, or the second of the four Russo-Japanese wars as it is sometimes called, that raged from early 1936 till late 1938 was both the outcome of the efforts of the Soviet leadership throughout the thirties from revolutionary rhetoric of the state, and also more importantly the catalyst for the movement diplomatically from the leadership of the State under Bukharin towards more friendly relations with the British Imperial Commonwealth and the French Third Republic in to what was to become the Second Entente. This lessened revolutionary fervour and increased diplomatic situation was puzzling to many international observers of the time in that the aftermath of the successful conclusion, from the Soviet perspective, of the conflict seemingly saw the successful conclusion of the expansionism of the Soviet state by the creation of a Soviet People's Republic of Manchuria in the wake of the defeat of the Imperial Japanese Army in the region.
This seeming success though masked the worrying isolation and looming threats that were becoming apparent to the leadership of both the State and to its military apparatus, and of the difficulties the Red Army had endured in both fighting the campaign and in helping prop up the new communist states in Manchuria and East Turkestan from primarily Chinese back guerilla activity. One the major concerns voiced within the senior political and military leadership circles of the state was the realisation of the isolation of the Soviet Union, beyond informal alliances with minor nations such as the Kingdom of Ireland, internationally and both the hostility of states surrounding the Soviet Union from the leaderships attempts to export the Revolution and of the growing threats from Europe of the German Third Reich and the remaining threat in Far East of both the Empire of Japan and to a lesser extent the Republic of China. And this was the major strategic failing of the militarily successful Manchurian campaign as while the Imperial Japanese Army was defeated, it was not destroyed and the revanchism began to become readily apparent in the years leading up to the Second Great War as the Empire of Japan sought alliance with the increasingly powerful Germans and began an modernisation and rearmament effort in the wake of the defeat. As such in the months after the victory the Soviet leadership began to increasingly fear, in the end rightly so, the occurrence of a two front war which the Manchurian campaign has shown the Red Army would struggle to adequately handle and could it was feared draw in other states such as Poland, Romania and China, all of which became deeply hostile to the USSR throughout the thirties owing to its efforts at internal political revolution and subversion that the Soviets had drawn from their lessons in the Anglo-Irish war in the twenties.
Most problematic was the alienation of the Chinese Kuomintang which had begun the decade as something of an unspoken ally, or perhaps friendly neighbour, of the Soviet Union through joint membership of the Comintern but as the decade progressed would shift into that of bitterness and hatred, most obviously expressed by the creation of the Soviet puppet People's Republics in what Chang Kai-shek considered internal provinces of China such as Xingjian, Mongolia and Manchuria. Unable to militarily displace the Soviets from these provinces through direct military means, having already suffered humiliating defeats to the now defeated Imperial Japanese Army prior to the Soviet victory, the Kuomintang began both an aggressive guerilla campaign against the Soviet created states and also attempted to renew its links with Germany now that the direct Sino-Japanese clashes had ended to help rebuild its military into a fighting force. Unlike with the Empire of Japan this Sino-German friendship was never a formalised entity, though with the defeat of the Japanese in 1938 the next three years saw a strong revitalisation of the relationship between the two anti-Communist states and an influx of German military advisors that would lead to dramatic improvement in the performance of the Chinese armies during the Second Great War comparative to the Sino-Japaese conflict only a few years earlier. These growing links of course were not unnoticed by the Soviet leadership, as well as the friendly relations between the Chinese and the American and British governments, and while the Chinese military was not considered a serious threat the prospect of them interfering at a moment of perceived Soviet weakness was an increasing risk for the State.
And added to this was the hidden military costs of the campaign and its aftermath to the Red Army and Far Eastern Fleet which had suffered much heavier than expected attrition to its front line units for the Army and to the more large capital ships to the feet which suffered the loss of the ageing Okyabrskya Revolutsiya along with two its modern Irish built Kirov class heavy cruisers and many of its light escort vessels throughout the conflict with far larger, better trained and more advanced Imperial Japanese Navy inspite of several successes, such as the continued survival of the 'unsinkable' light aircraft carrier Lenin, a vessel that would be reported sunk on multiple occasions as well during the Second Great War, and the successful sinking of several IJN cruisers and delaying several Japanese resupply convoys. As such the Soviet Far Eastern fleet needed to be rebuilt and expanded urgently, sadly the Soviet shipyards were not yet at a sufficient standard to built above light cruiser level, and while the Irish shipyards were technically advanced they were severely constrained through size, with the construction of the first true Soviet carrier in Belfast started in 1939 consuming much of their yard capacity. The Red Army had suffered similarly in the aftermath with greater reforms and modernisation being needed both within the military and heavy industry to maintain the high mobility combat strategy and munitions usage seen through the closing stages of the conflict, which had caused a problem similar to what had occurred with Tzarist military through the First Great War as the Red Army brought the conflict to its conclusion.
Owing to these factors the thawing relationship with the British Commonwealth nations, especially through the relationship with the Kingdom of Ireland, was seen as an increasing counterweight to these growing threats of the German military in Europe through the bulwark of the French Army forcing the Germans into a two front war in the event of conflict, but also of hopefully gaining the Royal Navy as either a counterweight to the IJN in the event of the expect resumption of conflict or through gaining access to shipbuilding capacity or technical knowledge to strengthen the air and naval defences of Vladivostok and the Far East. This had meant a significant shift within Soviet foreign policy between the Manchurian war and the start of the Second Great War in its increased support for the League of Nations and a stepped approach for promoting socialist or perceived soviet friendly figures to positions within the organisation such as the election of the Irishman Sean Lester to Secretary-General of the League of Nations in late 1940 in the run up to the start of the Second Great War. From the British and French sides the increasing threat of both German and Italian fascist expansionism, as well increasingly leftist governments within those nations, had made this rebuilding of the former Great War Entente an attractive proposition as the thirties began to end, and they viewed the increasingly powerful Soviet Union post Manchuria as both a threat to be contained through diplomacy and as a useful counterbalance to the loss of the 'Little Entente' by France and growing German bloc in Europe.
The first expression of this warming relation was in the strengthening, as well as actual implementation, of the economic sanctions on the victorious Nationalist Spanish under Marshall Sanjurjo in late 1938 and with increased trade arrangements between the three powers as the decade began to end, which would help with the modernisation of the Soviet factories and the restarting of what had become a somewhat sluggish economy. As the wartime needs impacted somewhat negatively on the living standards and the nascent civilian sector as conscription disrupted the New Economic Policy successor groups in many rural areas and as such reduced the coordination of the various Sovkhozy and Kolkhozy farms as the middlemen vanished into the war effort – only with the return of these men and other veterans shifted into the role by the State was the situation resolved. As such Gosnab, the organisation created to supervise this 'private' element of the state economy, was forced to attempt to create plans for maintaining the economy in the event of another major conflict as well as handle the increased import of luxury foreign goods into the economy such as Irish whiskey which had slackened off during the two year war but now ramped up again as the 'middlemen' returned in force and demand from various Party officials and village headmen for such items. Indeed in the period between the end of one war and the start of the next a number of Commonwealth based privately owned factories would be established within the Soviet Union both furthering the efficiency and production capacity of the Soviet economy, though causing an irritation to many within the Left Communists at the presence of foreign capitalists within the Communist State.
Indeed by 1939 both the British, French and Soviet governments had begun to informally discuss military alliance, though no formal alliance would occur till the months before the Greek Guarantee in 1941, which goes to show the depth of concern seen from Soviet leadership especially Bukharin who had previously been a strong supporter of revolutionary development internationally. Due to this evolving relationship between the Soviet Union and the Western Allies the world began to devolve increasingly into the two blocs of the socialist dominated League of Nations or Second Entente opposed to the Fascist Axis as the decade began to close and another Great War loomed on the horizon....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes
* Sean Lester is the OTL Last Secretary-General of the League of Nations. There was debate at the time he would run for President of Ireland but evidently he'd no interest.
* Bukharin beat out Trotsky (and Stalin) earlier in TL. It's a different but similar USSR than OTL.
* Sorry for the delay. Hectic RL! Next update in about a fortnight I'd guess depending on how fast work goes.
Karl Marx
Extract from: The Revolutionary State – The Soviet Union in the Thirties by David Trimble (Trinity Publishing 1976) (Trinity College) (Dublin) (Kingdom of Ireland)
....and due to this the 2nd Manchurian War, or the second of the four Russo-Japanese wars as it is sometimes called, that raged from early 1936 till late 1938 was both the outcome of the efforts of the Soviet leadership throughout the thirties from revolutionary rhetoric of the state, and also more importantly the catalyst for the movement diplomatically from the leadership of the State under Bukharin towards more friendly relations with the British Imperial Commonwealth and the French Third Republic in to what was to become the Second Entente. This lessened revolutionary fervour and increased diplomatic situation was puzzling to many international observers of the time in that the aftermath of the successful conclusion, from the Soviet perspective, of the conflict seemingly saw the successful conclusion of the expansionism of the Soviet state by the creation of a Soviet People's Republic of Manchuria in the wake of the defeat of the Imperial Japanese Army in the region.
This seeming success though masked the worrying isolation and looming threats that were becoming apparent to the leadership of both the State and to its military apparatus, and of the difficulties the Red Army had endured in both fighting the campaign and in helping prop up the new communist states in Manchuria and East Turkestan from primarily Chinese back guerilla activity. One the major concerns voiced within the senior political and military leadership circles of the state was the realisation of the isolation of the Soviet Union, beyond informal alliances with minor nations such as the Kingdom of Ireland, internationally and both the hostility of states surrounding the Soviet Union from the leaderships attempts to export the Revolution and of the growing threats from Europe of the German Third Reich and the remaining threat in Far East of both the Empire of Japan and to a lesser extent the Republic of China. And this was the major strategic failing of the militarily successful Manchurian campaign as while the Imperial Japanese Army was defeated, it was not destroyed and the revanchism began to become readily apparent in the years leading up to the Second Great War as the Empire of Japan sought alliance with the increasingly powerful Germans and began an modernisation and rearmament effort in the wake of the defeat. As such in the months after the victory the Soviet leadership began to increasingly fear, in the end rightly so, the occurrence of a two front war which the Manchurian campaign has shown the Red Army would struggle to adequately handle and could it was feared draw in other states such as Poland, Romania and China, all of which became deeply hostile to the USSR throughout the thirties owing to its efforts at internal political revolution and subversion that the Soviets had drawn from their lessons in the Anglo-Irish war in the twenties.
Most problematic was the alienation of the Chinese Kuomintang which had begun the decade as something of an unspoken ally, or perhaps friendly neighbour, of the Soviet Union through joint membership of the Comintern but as the decade progressed would shift into that of bitterness and hatred, most obviously expressed by the creation of the Soviet puppet People's Republics in what Chang Kai-shek considered internal provinces of China such as Xingjian, Mongolia and Manchuria. Unable to militarily displace the Soviets from these provinces through direct military means, having already suffered humiliating defeats to the now defeated Imperial Japanese Army prior to the Soviet victory, the Kuomintang began both an aggressive guerilla campaign against the Soviet created states and also attempted to renew its links with Germany now that the direct Sino-Japanese clashes had ended to help rebuild its military into a fighting force. Unlike with the Empire of Japan this Sino-German friendship was never a formalised entity, though with the defeat of the Japanese in 1938 the next three years saw a strong revitalisation of the relationship between the two anti-Communist states and an influx of German military advisors that would lead to dramatic improvement in the performance of the Chinese armies during the Second Great War comparative to the Sino-Japaese conflict only a few years earlier. These growing links of course were not unnoticed by the Soviet leadership, as well as the friendly relations between the Chinese and the American and British governments, and while the Chinese military was not considered a serious threat the prospect of them interfering at a moment of perceived Soviet weakness was an increasing risk for the State.
And added to this was the hidden military costs of the campaign and its aftermath to the Red Army and Far Eastern Fleet which had suffered much heavier than expected attrition to its front line units for the Army and to the more large capital ships to the feet which suffered the loss of the ageing Okyabrskya Revolutsiya along with two its modern Irish built Kirov class heavy cruisers and many of its light escort vessels throughout the conflict with far larger, better trained and more advanced Imperial Japanese Navy inspite of several successes, such as the continued survival of the 'unsinkable' light aircraft carrier Lenin, a vessel that would be reported sunk on multiple occasions as well during the Second Great War, and the successful sinking of several IJN cruisers and delaying several Japanese resupply convoys. As such the Soviet Far Eastern fleet needed to be rebuilt and expanded urgently, sadly the Soviet shipyards were not yet at a sufficient standard to built above light cruiser level, and while the Irish shipyards were technically advanced they were severely constrained through size, with the construction of the first true Soviet carrier in Belfast started in 1939 consuming much of their yard capacity. The Red Army had suffered similarly in the aftermath with greater reforms and modernisation being needed both within the military and heavy industry to maintain the high mobility combat strategy and munitions usage seen through the closing stages of the conflict, which had caused a problem similar to what had occurred with Tzarist military through the First Great War as the Red Army brought the conflict to its conclusion.
Owing to these factors the thawing relationship with the British Commonwealth nations, especially through the relationship with the Kingdom of Ireland, was seen as an increasing counterweight to these growing threats of the German military in Europe through the bulwark of the French Army forcing the Germans into a two front war in the event of conflict, but also of hopefully gaining the Royal Navy as either a counterweight to the IJN in the event of the expect resumption of conflict or through gaining access to shipbuilding capacity or technical knowledge to strengthen the air and naval defences of Vladivostok and the Far East. This had meant a significant shift within Soviet foreign policy between the Manchurian war and the start of the Second Great War in its increased support for the League of Nations and a stepped approach for promoting socialist or perceived soviet friendly figures to positions within the organisation such as the election of the Irishman Sean Lester to Secretary-General of the League of Nations in late 1940 in the run up to the start of the Second Great War. From the British and French sides the increasing threat of both German and Italian fascist expansionism, as well increasingly leftist governments within those nations, had made this rebuilding of the former Great War Entente an attractive proposition as the thirties began to end, and they viewed the increasingly powerful Soviet Union post Manchuria as both a threat to be contained through diplomacy and as a useful counterbalance to the loss of the 'Little Entente' by France and growing German bloc in Europe.
The first expression of this warming relation was in the strengthening, as well as actual implementation, of the economic sanctions on the victorious Nationalist Spanish under Marshall Sanjurjo in late 1938 and with increased trade arrangements between the three powers as the decade began to end, which would help with the modernisation of the Soviet factories and the restarting of what had become a somewhat sluggish economy. As the wartime needs impacted somewhat negatively on the living standards and the nascent civilian sector as conscription disrupted the New Economic Policy successor groups in many rural areas and as such reduced the coordination of the various Sovkhozy and Kolkhozy farms as the middlemen vanished into the war effort – only with the return of these men and other veterans shifted into the role by the State was the situation resolved. As such Gosnab, the organisation created to supervise this 'private' element of the state economy, was forced to attempt to create plans for maintaining the economy in the event of another major conflict as well as handle the increased import of luxury foreign goods into the economy such as Irish whiskey which had slackened off during the two year war but now ramped up again as the 'middlemen' returned in force and demand from various Party officials and village headmen for such items. Indeed in the period between the end of one war and the start of the next a number of Commonwealth based privately owned factories would be established within the Soviet Union both furthering the efficiency and production capacity of the Soviet economy, though causing an irritation to many within the Left Communists at the presence of foreign capitalists within the Communist State.
Indeed by 1939 both the British, French and Soviet governments had begun to informally discuss military alliance, though no formal alliance would occur till the months before the Greek Guarantee in 1941, which goes to show the depth of concern seen from Soviet leadership especially Bukharin who had previously been a strong supporter of revolutionary development internationally. Due to this evolving relationship between the Soviet Union and the Western Allies the world began to devolve increasingly into the two blocs of the socialist dominated League of Nations or Second Entente opposed to the Fascist Axis as the decade began to close and another Great War loomed on the horizon....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes
* Sean Lester is the OTL Last Secretary-General of the League of Nations. There was debate at the time he would run for President of Ireland but evidently he'd no interest.
* Bukharin beat out Trotsky (and Stalin) earlier in TL. It's a different but similar USSR than OTL.
* Sorry for the delay. Hectic RL! Next update in about a fortnight I'd guess depending on how fast work goes.
Last edited:
theirishdreamer
Banned
The World on the verge of the Second Great War
The World on the Verge of War
Green - Western Allies
Light Green - Allied or Guaranteed by Western Allies
Red - USSR
Pink - Soviet 'Allied' States
Blue - Full Axis Members
Light Blue - Axis Allied or Friendly powers
Purple - China (US friendly, Germany friendly, Western allied friendly, USSR hostile, Japan hostile)
* Initial Draft, hope this helps.
The World on the Verge of War
Green - Western Allies
Light Green - Allied or Guaranteed by Western Allies
Red - USSR
Pink - Soviet 'Allied' States
Blue - Full Axis Members
Light Blue - Axis Allied or Friendly powers
Purple - China (US friendly, Germany friendly, Western allied friendly, USSR hostile, Japan hostile)
* Initial Draft, hope this helps.
Syria?
Looking at the map, I see Syria seems to be lime green rather than dark green; the French mandate presumably never happened in this timeline?
Looking at the map, I see Syria seems to be lime green rather than dark green; the French mandate presumably never happened in this timeline?
theirishdreamer
Banned
hmmm
French Mandate still occurred but with the British chaos in Palestine theres a 'quasi-independent' government of Syria in place, at least officially. In reality the French are as in control as OTL much like the Soviets in Manchuria.
French Mandate still occurred but with the British chaos in Palestine theres a 'quasi-independent' government of Syria in place, at least officially. In reality the French are as in control as OTL much like the Soviets in Manchuria.
theirishdreamer
Banned
Chapter 84: Pact of Steel
Graf Zeppelin begins sea trials
[FONT="]
Letter from Joseph P. Walshe to John Leydon and R.C. Ferguson (Dublin) (215/211) (Secret) [/FONT]
[FONT="]Dublin, 12 November 1940[/FONT]
[FONT="]Dear Ferguson, Leydon,[/FONT]
[FONT="]I am sending you herewith copy of a minute which we have received from the Imperial Training and Development Board regarding an enquiry from the British Ministry of Supply as to the engineering capacity available in this country for the manufacture of shell cases and fuses.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As you know, we have from the beginning set ourselves the manufacture of armaments here for purposes of self-defence, and I think a number of tentative proposals by Irish firms who were thinking of engaging in this type of work have already been turned down due to standardisation difference. I am by no means sure that this preliminary feeler from the British Ministry of Supply is not an indication that they themselves anticipate that we might see no objection to the manufacture of shell cases and fuses here on grounds of policy.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We propose to ask the Board therefore to tell the British Ministry of Supply that he has ascertained that it is likely, with caveats, that engineering capacity would be available in this country for the manufacture of empty shell cases and fuses. I should be glad if you would let me know as soon as possible whether your Minister agrees.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Yours sincerely, [/FONT]
[FONT="]
[stamped] (SIGNED) J.P. Walsh[/FONT]
[FONT="]War Never Changes: A History of the Second Great War by Roman Pearl (McNare-Clarent Publishing) (2004) (Toronto) (Canada)[/FONT]
[FONT="]....and by the close of the thirties the Fascist front of the Berlin-Rome Axis had begun to see significant gains from the signing of the Pact of Steel as they, or their proxies, saw significant gains at the expense of minor nations such as Abyssinia, or even moderate states such as seen in the fall of Czechoslovakia, first through the Sudetenland Crisis and then through the brief Axis-Czechoslovak war that ensued in the aftermath. All of which occurred as the Anglo-French alliance stood aside in seeming paralysis from the fear of restarting another Great War; it is most interesting that in the two closing years of the thirties Germany seemed intent on engaging in war with the Entente powers, 1938 in Czechoslovakia and then again in 1939 over the Danzig crisis, while the divided Commonwealth nations and France backed down from confrontation in both cases. Due to this failure to confront the growing fascist movement within Europe had seen the loss of several nations as well as the defeat of Republican Spain by its Nationalist enemies ensuring that France now found itself surrounded on three fronts by hostile powers even as the Empire of Japan allied itself with Berlin-Rome Axis, thereby placing the increasingly Entente allied Soviet Union with the prospect of a two-front war in any conflict.[/FONT]
[FONT="]These conflicts in the run up to the Second Great War, primarily in Spain and Czechoslovakia for the Germans and Italians, then Manchuria for the Japanese, saw the evolution of these powers military forces and doctrine from what had been a low ebb through the thirties to what would be the devastatingly modern military machine of the first years of the war. Indeed inspite of the weakness of the Anglo-French forces throughout the thirties the European Axis militaries, primarily the Germans, were only nascent in their development as shown by the performance of the Panzer forces in the Czech campaign versus the early war offensives, while the highly effective automatic rifles in the Sturmgewhr’40 and ’41 were only developed from the study of the various captured F/A(E) variants supplied to the Republic of Spain through the conflict by the Anglo-French. Unfortunately for the Entente nations these conflicts did not translate in a similar evolution in effectiveness in their own military forces, instead beginning a policy of first sluggish rearmament in the mid to late thirties, followed by increasingly frantic methods as the conflict neared, which merely bolstered base military numbers in the French and Commonwealth forces while failing to address the numerous command issues and obsolete doctrine without considering the difficulties caused by the rapid build up of the new units itself on their force structure. As such as the forties began and the positions of the two power blocs became increasingly antagonistic the Axis powers were somewhat ahead of their rivals in terms of military development and build-up inspite of being outnumbered in total personal numbers and material, as the disastrous performance shown by the Entente forces in the first months of the conflict would show; quite simply the Anglo-French and Soviet Entente militaries had geared themselves to [FONT="]re-fight[/FONT] the First Great War and the Manchurian War respectively while the Axis militaries had invested and geared themselves towards newer more aggressive doctrine and strategies having viewed these previous conflicts as failed templates not to be repeated.[/FONT]
[FONT="]An example of this situation would lie in the naval sphere between the preeminent Entente, and at the time global, fleet in the shape of the Royal Navy and its Commonwealth auxiliaries versus its Axis rivals, in overall numbers it significantly outweighed its Axis rivals combined but apart from its destroyer and submarine designs, and series of aircraft carriers, many of its in-service heavy warships in the cruiser to battleship range dated backed to the twenties or First Great War and had suffered a series of restrictions and cut backs throughout the thirties that had reduced the effectiveness of the fleet and overall crew morale throughout the fleet. Comparatively while smaller the Axis navies, mainly in the Kriegsmarine and Imperil Japanese Navy had begun their build-up in the late thirties and as such its heavy units as such were consequently more modern and unrestrained by the failed Naval Treaties; even the incomplete application of the Plan Z rearmament plan by the Kriegsmarine had left it fielding its first operational aircraft carrier, the Graf Zeppelin, in late 1940 with the second and last of the class managing to enter service shortly after the outbreak of the conflict along with the H-class battleship Friedrich der Große and preceding Bismarck class battleships caused significant hardship for the larger Royal Navy Home Fleet throughout the war such as in the Norway campaign. And while the Regia Marina had not adopted a more conservative building programme failing to adequately utilise newer technologies such as radar and sonar in particular, it did possesses significant surface assets including six battleships refitted just prior to the outbreak in preparation for the expected Greek campaign, which would pressurise the Royal Navy and Marine Nationale early in the conflict throughout the Mediterranean. This of course was one of the great difficulties faced by the Entente navies who faced with powerful surface forces in widely dispersed operational zones found it difficult to bring its superior numbers to bear in any one combat theatre, with Italians in the Mediterranean, the Germans in the North Sea and Atlantic and the powerful Kido Butai in the Far East.......[/FONT]
[FONT="]Letter from Peadar MacMahon to Joseph P. Walshe (Dublin) (Secret) [/FONT]
[FONT="]Dublin, 20 November 1940[/FONT]
[FONT="]I am directed by the Minister for Defence to refer to your letter of the 16th instant with enclosure, relative to the desire of the British Air Council to establish a range for bombing and firing from the air on the North Eastern shore of Lough Foyle, and to state that, from the military point of view, there is no objection to the proposal which can adequately be advanced. [/FONT]
[FONT="]At the same time, the Minister feels strongly that on general principles and internal concerns, the establishment of the range is undesirable and that the Air Council should be discouraged to the greatest possible extent against putting the proposal into effect. Acceptance of perhaps Canadian or other Commonwealth forces would be acceptable if necessary.[/FONT]
[FONT="][signed] PEADAR MACMAHON
Rúnaidhe [/FONT]
[FONT="]*Handwritten with note[/FONT]
[FONT="]Jesus are they crazy or desperate? Don’t they know how the Air force feels about the RAF? The situation’s bad enough without a ‘friendly fire’ incident! Keep them away Joe. Take the Canadians if they press the issue. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Extract from the minutes of a meeting of the Cabinet (G.C. 2/11) (Item 5)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Dublin, 17 December 1940[/FONT]
[FONT="]MEASURES TO BE TAKEN IN THE EVENT OF EUROPEAN WAR:
[/FONT][FONT="]Committee of Heads of Departments[/FONT][FONT="].[/FONT]
[FONT="]It was decided that a Committee of Heads of Departments responsible to the Government, under the Chairmanship of the Taoiseach, should be established to act as a general planning, co-ordinating and supervising body, and to consider the measures which it is necessary to take in preparation for the eventuality of a European war; the Committee to consist of the Secretaries of the following Departments: [/FONT]
· [FONT="]Agriculture[/FONT]
· [FONT="]Defence[/FONT]
· [FONT="]External Affairs[/FONT]
· [FONT="]Finance[/FONT]
· [FONT="]Industry & Commerce[/FONT]
· [FONT="]Justice[/FONT]
· [FONT="]Taoiseach[/FONT]
[FONT="]An Bord Pleanla reactivation will also occur under the aegis of the Committee in the event of outbreak of hostilities. It was also decided that a legislation Committee should be set up to consider and draft, subject to the approval of the Government, whatever legislative measures may be necessary to deal with a war situation; this Committee to consist of representatives of the Attorney General's Department, the Department of External Affairs and the Department of Justice. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Glen of Imaal[/FONT]
[FONT="]Kingdom of Ireland[/FONT]
[FONT="]14th January 1941[/FONT]
[FONT="]Noel hopped down from the truck with rest of his squad and they began to diligently and swiftly unlimber the new Ordnance QF-25 pounder and assemble it into its fire position, the British made guns were recent acquisitions to replace the older Russian field guns previously in use by the Artillery Corps and the division’s inexperience with the weapons showed as their load time was sluggish. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Especially in comparison with their Canadian training partners who had the processes completed and in firing position while his own crew was only partially unlimbered and their accuracy was also poor, though the Canadian crews were hardly much better at least Noel noted as the gaggle of Senior Officers down from Dublin looked on them with unhappy scowls....[/FONT]
[FONT="]Notes:[/FONT]
[FONT="]F/A(E) –[/FONT][FONT="] Federov Atvomat (Eire Variant) is an Irish build version of the Russian build Federov Advomat automatic rifle used by the ITTL Irish Army (see earlier in TL) and sold as an export item. ITTL it inspires early adoption of the STG43/44 by the Germans after seeing the F/A(E)’s used in the (shorter) ITTL Spanish civil war.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Plan Z –[/FONT][FONT="] Is still not really implemented but morseo than OTL (due to less interaction with Soviet Union by Germany ITTL) with two ‘extra’ years of German and Italian rearmament, along with a weaker RN. So Kriegsmarine aircraft carriers! We’ll see if there any use later on.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Letters –[/FONT][FONT="] Altered versions of OTL documents about secret Irish diplomacy. With the North as part of the Kingdom ITTL the Foyle Plan (OTL) is a much, much, bigger issue than OTL.[/FONT]
[FONT="]War –[/FONT][FONT="] Are the Entente ready for a war in 1941? Hmmmmm . The Axis seemingly are...
[/FONT]
Graf Zeppelin begins sea trials
Letter from Joseph P. Walshe to John Leydon and R.C. Ferguson (Dublin) (215/211) (Secret) [/FONT]
[FONT="]Dublin, 12 November 1940[/FONT]
[FONT="]Dear Ferguson, Leydon,[/FONT]
[FONT="]I am sending you herewith copy of a minute which we have received from the Imperial Training and Development Board regarding an enquiry from the British Ministry of Supply as to the engineering capacity available in this country for the manufacture of shell cases and fuses.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As you know, we have from the beginning set ourselves the manufacture of armaments here for purposes of self-defence, and I think a number of tentative proposals by Irish firms who were thinking of engaging in this type of work have already been turned down due to standardisation difference. I am by no means sure that this preliminary feeler from the British Ministry of Supply is not an indication that they themselves anticipate that we might see no objection to the manufacture of shell cases and fuses here on grounds of policy.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We propose to ask the Board therefore to tell the British Ministry of Supply that he has ascertained that it is likely, with caveats, that engineering capacity would be available in this country for the manufacture of empty shell cases and fuses. I should be glad if you would let me know as soon as possible whether your Minister agrees.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Yours sincerely, [/FONT]
[FONT="]
[stamped] (SIGNED) J.P. Walsh[/FONT]
[FONT="]**************************************[/FONT]
[FONT="]War Never Changes: A History of the Second Great War by Roman Pearl (McNare-Clarent Publishing) (2004) (Toronto) (Canada)[/FONT]
[FONT="]....and by the close of the thirties the Fascist front of the Berlin-Rome Axis had begun to see significant gains from the signing of the Pact of Steel as they, or their proxies, saw significant gains at the expense of minor nations such as Abyssinia, or even moderate states such as seen in the fall of Czechoslovakia, first through the Sudetenland Crisis and then through the brief Axis-Czechoslovak war that ensued in the aftermath. All of which occurred as the Anglo-French alliance stood aside in seeming paralysis from the fear of restarting another Great War; it is most interesting that in the two closing years of the thirties Germany seemed intent on engaging in war with the Entente powers, 1938 in Czechoslovakia and then again in 1939 over the Danzig crisis, while the divided Commonwealth nations and France backed down from confrontation in both cases. Due to this failure to confront the growing fascist movement within Europe had seen the loss of several nations as well as the defeat of Republican Spain by its Nationalist enemies ensuring that France now found itself surrounded on three fronts by hostile powers even as the Empire of Japan allied itself with Berlin-Rome Axis, thereby placing the increasingly Entente allied Soviet Union with the prospect of a two-front war in any conflict.[/FONT]
[FONT="]These conflicts in the run up to the Second Great War, primarily in Spain and Czechoslovakia for the Germans and Italians, then Manchuria for the Japanese, saw the evolution of these powers military forces and doctrine from what had been a low ebb through the thirties to what would be the devastatingly modern military machine of the first years of the war. Indeed inspite of the weakness of the Anglo-French forces throughout the thirties the European Axis militaries, primarily the Germans, were only nascent in their development as shown by the performance of the Panzer forces in the Czech campaign versus the early war offensives, while the highly effective automatic rifles in the Sturmgewhr’40 and ’41 were only developed from the study of the various captured F/A(E) variants supplied to the Republic of Spain through the conflict by the Anglo-French. Unfortunately for the Entente nations these conflicts did not translate in a similar evolution in effectiveness in their own military forces, instead beginning a policy of first sluggish rearmament in the mid to late thirties, followed by increasingly frantic methods as the conflict neared, which merely bolstered base military numbers in the French and Commonwealth forces while failing to address the numerous command issues and obsolete doctrine without considering the difficulties caused by the rapid build up of the new units itself on their force structure. As such as the forties began and the positions of the two power blocs became increasingly antagonistic the Axis powers were somewhat ahead of their rivals in terms of military development and build-up inspite of being outnumbered in total personal numbers and material, as the disastrous performance shown by the Entente forces in the first months of the conflict would show; quite simply the Anglo-French and Soviet Entente militaries had geared themselves to [FONT="]re-fight[/FONT] the First Great War and the Manchurian War respectively while the Axis militaries had invested and geared themselves towards newer more aggressive doctrine and strategies having viewed these previous conflicts as failed templates not to be repeated.[/FONT]
[FONT="]An example of this situation would lie in the naval sphere between the preeminent Entente, and at the time global, fleet in the shape of the Royal Navy and its Commonwealth auxiliaries versus its Axis rivals, in overall numbers it significantly outweighed its Axis rivals combined but apart from its destroyer and submarine designs, and series of aircraft carriers, many of its in-service heavy warships in the cruiser to battleship range dated backed to the twenties or First Great War and had suffered a series of restrictions and cut backs throughout the thirties that had reduced the effectiveness of the fleet and overall crew morale throughout the fleet. Comparatively while smaller the Axis navies, mainly in the Kriegsmarine and Imperil Japanese Navy had begun their build-up in the late thirties and as such its heavy units as such were consequently more modern and unrestrained by the failed Naval Treaties; even the incomplete application of the Plan Z rearmament plan by the Kriegsmarine had left it fielding its first operational aircraft carrier, the Graf Zeppelin, in late 1940 with the second and last of the class managing to enter service shortly after the outbreak of the conflict along with the H-class battleship Friedrich der Große and preceding Bismarck class battleships caused significant hardship for the larger Royal Navy Home Fleet throughout the war such as in the Norway campaign. And while the Regia Marina had not adopted a more conservative building programme failing to adequately utilise newer technologies such as radar and sonar in particular, it did possesses significant surface assets including six battleships refitted just prior to the outbreak in preparation for the expected Greek campaign, which would pressurise the Royal Navy and Marine Nationale early in the conflict throughout the Mediterranean. This of course was one of the great difficulties faced by the Entente navies who faced with powerful surface forces in widely dispersed operational zones found it difficult to bring its superior numbers to bear in any one combat theatre, with Italians in the Mediterranean, the Germans in the North Sea and Atlantic and the powerful Kido Butai in the Far East.......[/FONT]
[FONT="]**************************************[/FONT]
[FONT="]Letter from Peadar MacMahon to Joseph P. Walshe (Dublin) (Secret) [/FONT]
[FONT="]Dublin, 20 November 1940[/FONT]
[FONT="]I am directed by the Minister for Defence to refer to your letter of the 16th instant with enclosure, relative to the desire of the British Air Council to establish a range for bombing and firing from the air on the North Eastern shore of Lough Foyle, and to state that, from the military point of view, there is no objection to the proposal which can adequately be advanced. [/FONT]
[FONT="]At the same time, the Minister feels strongly that on general principles and internal concerns, the establishment of the range is undesirable and that the Air Council should be discouraged to the greatest possible extent against putting the proposal into effect. Acceptance of perhaps Canadian or other Commonwealth forces would be acceptable if necessary.[/FONT]
[FONT="][signed] PEADAR MACMAHON
Rúnaidhe [/FONT]
[FONT="]*Handwritten with note[/FONT]
[FONT="]Jesus are they crazy or desperate? Don’t they know how the Air force feels about the RAF? The situation’s bad enough without a ‘friendly fire’ incident! Keep them away Joe. Take the Canadians if they press the issue. [/FONT]
[FONT="]**************************************[/FONT]
[FONT="]Extract from the minutes of a meeting of the Cabinet (G.C. 2/11) (Item 5)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Dublin, 17 December 1940[/FONT]
[FONT="]MEASURES TO BE TAKEN IN THE EVENT OF EUROPEAN WAR:
[/FONT][FONT="]Committee of Heads of Departments[/FONT][FONT="].[/FONT]
[FONT="]It was decided that a Committee of Heads of Departments responsible to the Government, under the Chairmanship of the Taoiseach, should be established to act as a general planning, co-ordinating and supervising body, and to consider the measures which it is necessary to take in preparation for the eventuality of a European war; the Committee to consist of the Secretaries of the following Departments: [/FONT]
· [FONT="]Agriculture[/FONT]
· [FONT="]Defence[/FONT]
· [FONT="]External Affairs[/FONT]
· [FONT="]Finance[/FONT]
· [FONT="]Industry & Commerce[/FONT]
· [FONT="]Justice[/FONT]
· [FONT="]Taoiseach[/FONT]
[FONT="]An Bord Pleanla reactivation will also occur under the aegis of the Committee in the event of outbreak of hostilities. It was also decided that a legislation Committee should be set up to consider and draft, subject to the approval of the Government, whatever legislative measures may be necessary to deal with a war situation; this Committee to consist of representatives of the Attorney General's Department, the Department of External Affairs and the Department of Justice. [/FONT]
[FONT="]**************************************[/FONT]
[FONT="]Glen of Imaal[/FONT]
[FONT="]Kingdom of Ireland[/FONT]
[FONT="]14th January 1941[/FONT]
[FONT="]Noel hopped down from the truck with rest of his squad and they began to diligently and swiftly unlimber the new Ordnance QF-25 pounder and assemble it into its fire position, the British made guns were recent acquisitions to replace the older Russian field guns previously in use by the Artillery Corps and the division’s inexperience with the weapons showed as their load time was sluggish. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Especially in comparison with their Canadian training partners who had the processes completed and in firing position while his own crew was only partially unlimbered and their accuracy was also poor, though the Canadian crews were hardly much better at least Noel noted as the gaggle of Senior Officers down from Dublin looked on them with unhappy scowls....[/FONT]
[FONT="]**************************************[/FONT]
[FONT="]F/A(E) –[/FONT][FONT="] Federov Atvomat (Eire Variant) is an Irish build version of the Russian build Federov Advomat automatic rifle used by the ITTL Irish Army (see earlier in TL) and sold as an export item. ITTL it inspires early adoption of the STG43/44 by the Germans after seeing the F/A(E)’s used in the (shorter) ITTL Spanish civil war.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Plan Z –[/FONT][FONT="] Is still not really implemented but morseo than OTL (due to less interaction with Soviet Union by Germany ITTL) with two ‘extra’ years of German and Italian rearmament, along with a weaker RN. So Kriegsmarine aircraft carriers! We’ll see if there any use later on.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Letters –[/FONT][FONT="] Altered versions of OTL documents about secret Irish diplomacy. With the North as part of the Kingdom ITTL the Foyle Plan (OTL) is a much, much, bigger issue than OTL.[/FONT]
[FONT="]War –[/FONT][FONT="] Are the Entente ready for a war in 1941? Hmmmmm
. The Axis seemingly are... [/FONT]
Last edited:
theirishdreamer
Banned
hmmm
Good news, Bad news.
Bad news is as I mentioned on my other TL my PC went and crashed, but got it fixed. Sadly lost the updates and storyboard on it for this TL and most of my ST/X-com one.
Good news is TL is still going ans I plan on restarting as soon as I can get my 2 TL's here and another elsewhere going again at a reasonable pace outside of work. So updates will come, albeit sopradically
So any suggestions and feedback is welcome, or anywhere posters would like me to do up and update or two on.
Or ideas where the TL should/would go etc?
Good news, Bad news.
Bad news is as I mentioned on my other TL my PC went and crashed, but got it fixed. Sadly lost the updates and storyboard on it for this TL and most of my ST/X-com one.
Good news is TL is still going ans I plan on restarting as soon as I can get my 2 TL's here and another elsewhere going again at a reasonable pace outside of work. So updates will come, albeit sopradically
So any suggestions and feedback is welcome, or anywhere posters would like me to do up and update or two on.
Or ideas where the TL should/would go etc?
theirishdreamer
Banned
Chapter 85: Kings Rifles
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]“The only people who can fix Africa are talented young Africans. By unlocking and nurturing their creative potential, we can create a step change in Africa's future”[/FONT]
[FONT="]Neil Turok[/FONT]
[FONT="]28th October 1939[/FONT]
[FONT="]North of Nairobi, former Kenya Colony, East African Federation[/FONT]
[FONT="]The march north from Nairobi had been both tiring and tense for the men of B Company, 4th Battalion, 2nd Division of the newly constituted East African Federal Army as since the start of ‘Operation Hammer’ two days ago when the division had been ordered from their staging positions, they had been given the occasionally bloody work of disarming the white settler militias as well as taking over patrolling against the armed and militant Kikuyu insurgency that erupted in former Kenya colony. [/FONT][FONT="]By and large the settler assembly of the colony and its supporters had been shut down without major resistance when the operation began at dawn on the 26th with many of the leaders of the colony had woken to find themselves at gunpoint from the ‘reinforcements’ sent by Britain and the nascent government of the Federation to the south in Tanganyika and Uganda which had finally reached their boiling point with the resistance of the white settler dominated colony to Imperial reforms and the resulting violent insurgency from the Kikuyu people.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Still though the company had seen two of its members slain and another three wounded in skirmishes with some of the armed mercenaries on the settler run farms and militias objecting, violently, to being disarmed and merged into the new Federal Army as well as two attacks from rebels seeking to exploit the disagreements between the two theoretical allied loyalist forces operating in lands stolen from members of their tribe months prior by the colonial administration and setting this mess in motion.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As the company trudged along the road northward with its trucks dating back to the Great War a more modern looking motorcycle ridden by a dirt covered rider with orders most likely from their battalion or divisional command to change their objective yet again as the day turned colder as midday turned into evening and the weather became less friendly for the marching column and its mortar support unit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The rider though brought his vehicle to a stop alongside the company’s senior officer, a young newly minted Major named Kasozi from the Buganda kingdom who’d managed to gain this position through various favours from his uncle’s family, and motioned to the north east “Orders from Divisional HQ Sir, your to bring your company northeast about six miles and link up with A Company, they’ve run into some resistance and want to teach a lesson”[/FONT]
[FONT="]Kasozi nodded tiredly resisting the urge to scowl as his men were expecting a rest period shortly and not to get into another fire fight so soon after the skirmish just outside Nairobi as he asked the nature of their enemy this time “Rebels or settler loyalists?” as the standing orders were to crack down hard on the first but where possible to go easy on the second.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Not that the new Major had any intention of that unless he had too, the white settlers of Kenya colony were a significant threat to the security of the Ghanda people within this new British created Federation and now that they’d weakened themselves and allowed their position to be challenged the informal orders from higher up in his clan and within the Federal Army was to make use of this precious opportunity to reduce their influence as the new government formed.[/FONT]
[FONT="]“Both probably Major” the dispatch rider replied stretching his arms and legs a moment and patting off some of the dust off his goggles “the group holed up in the village are some loyalist Kikuyu and settlers and the poor dumb bastards refused to disarm and shoots got fired” he thumbed in a direction of the supposed village “but division thinks there’s some rebels further up the track so A & B company are to secure the next three villages before nightfall then you’re to fort up for the night”[/FONT]
[FONT="]Kasozi could hear the restrained grumbling a short while later as the orders spread down along the line and company adjusted its direction a mile further down the road to move on the north-eastward fork of the poorly maintained road to the rumbling growl of the aging truck and sound of weapons being checked as orders were shouted down the line.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Unfortunately the units involved in Operation Hammer were taking significantly more time than planned to achieve their objectives, as the nature of operational security had required the deployment by the new Federal Army of three of its new divisions had been a major logistical effort hampered by the fact relative inexperience of its recruits and officer corps and the short timescale since the creation of the [FONT="]organization[/FONT] from major expansion of the Kings African Rifle companies prior to the operation.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As such while the two British Divisions which had landed in Dar es Salaam on the 24th had secured their objectives starting on the 26th as planned under the operational objectives, as well as those forces assigned to the northern highlands facing the potentially hostile Italian Army in Abyssinia, the Federal Army was significantly behind its original objectives which was had led to greater resistance from certain quarters as both the settlers and the rebel Kikuyu had time to [FONT="]organize[/FONT] a resistance in the first case or plan attacks in the second.[/FONT]
[FONT="] In the end though their proved to be no further resistance at the resisting township when B Company finally arrived a while later to link up with their compatriots in A Company the sight of the reinforcements deploying on the opposite flank of the village and both setting up their mortar support brought upon the sudden and unexpected urge for self-preservation and soon a white flag offering surrender was being marched forward......[/FONT]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[FONT="]Extract from: African Melting Pot: A History of the East African Federation by Evelyn Moikeenah (Nairobi Publishing Corporation) (2004) (East African Federation) [/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]....by the 7th November as such the initial objectives of Operation Hammer had been achieved, albeit three days later than originally planned as the remaining loyalist militia and constabulary were either disarmed or brought under the authority of their new federal alternatives as the combined forces of the British army and the new Federal army under British leadership brought the remainder of Kenya colony under martial law.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Resistance in the end had proven relatively light from forces deemed to have been under the authority of the settler run Kenyan Legislature folding without a fight or after initial token resistance, as with the arrest of the majority of its leadership on the first day of the Operation and significant forces brought to bear by the British government dissuaded all but the most hardliner of the settler [FONT="]organization[/FONT] to fall in line.[/FONT]
[FONT="]With this initial phase completed the British and Federal forces began move to secure the territory where Kikuyu irregulars were operating with active patrols and starting to establish blockhouses even as the British political establishment attempted to reach out to the leadership of the Kikuyu by offer a significant review of the land reform and greater political involvement for them in the newly established East African Federation under a model similar to that of the Bunyoro, Buganda and the recently established Jewish Autonomous Zone.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
These negotiations ran into initial difficulties due to the lack of trust in the British or Federal authorities by the Kikuyu leadership in delivering such reforms and from the hostility seen from the settler community at the stripping away of what they saw as they’re natural position within the colony. Though this position while reduced and having been from almost traitorous [FONT="]behavior[/FONT] towards the Crown still entailed significant privileges compared to whites even in Tanganyika or Uganda within the new entity, perhaps a sign of how politically inept or lacking in understanding the Kenyan settler community was.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As such for the closing months of the decade the British had managed to achieve the unfortunate feat of earning the dislike of both the settlers and the Kikuyu for perceived [FONT="]favoring[/FONT] of the other side, by the settlers for even engaging with the rebels while with the rebellious the lack of concrete proposals for reversing the land reform of the earlier thirties that had stripped vast acreage from the native population to enable creation of settler farmsteads; though by early nineteen forty a ceasefire had been established between the two sides, and while the settler community remained hostile it no longer possessed the capacity to do more than resist on a local level.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As the first year of the forties progressed the shadow of a possible Second Great War loomed over the British Empire and in many ways forced the issues of Kenya colony to a head with the presence of a major Italian army across the border to the north, as well as the need to enlarge and equip the Federal Army in line with building a solid governmental structure began to take on increased urgency as the months went by in nineteen forty. By the middle of the year as such this urgency can be seen by the broad range of concessions offered by the Colonial Office, through new Federal government such a near total reversion of land rights post-nineteen thirty-one and the acceptance of majority of the reforms requested by Harry Thuku’s Kikuyu Central Association in regards the colony which led to vocal, but ignored, protests by the settler community inspite of limited compensation offered by the British government for transfer of farmland.[/FONT]
[FONT="]This of course was in tandem with the continued [FONT="]mobilization[/FONT] of a new army, referred locally as Askaris, within the state as the months progressed inexorably towards the Second Great War; indeed as with many of Commonwealth states who were slated for independence during the thirties the creation of a effective military occurred prior to the effective creation of a effective political structure occurred within the East African Federation as immediate military concerns led to political compromises with the native population unthinkable a decade earlier.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
Hand in hand with this gradual [FONT="]militarization[/FONT] in the run up to the Second Great War was the increased investment in the new East African Federation by the British support towards a [FONT="]modernizing[/FONT] of the agricultural industry in Tanganyika in particular through the wheat scheme in an attempt to increase agricultural production based on experiences from the First Great War and expected rationing in any new conflict, which also spurred further investment and expansion of the rail system within Uganda and Tanganyika, with Kenya lagging due to the troubles there, though this imbalance would gradually be addressed during the Second Great War and in the post war period. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Further investment by Commonwealth bodies into helping establish the Jewish Autonomous Zone, as well as some support from the global Zionist movement, with the bloody failure of the Mandatory Palestine also served to boost industrial development in Uganda, though this development was weighted heavily amongst the new Jewish settler population and the established tribes such the Buganda while creating some resentment from groups such as the Bunyoro who felt they had not gained as much as their [FONT="]neighboring[/FONT] rivals, and the Luo and Kisi people who saw some economic loss to the new settlers and from eastward from the Arabo-Swahili mercantile class expanding from Zanzibar and Tanganyika in the new Federal structures.[/FONT]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes:
* As we can see there's winners and losers in decolonization and with approaching WW2 ITTL the willingness to put up with alot of the post & pre war settler shenanigans reaches its sell by date for very practical reasons for the 'declining' British Empire, but even then the white settlers in Kenya are still very, very privileged, just not as much as they'd like.
* And as the EAF forms alot of its elites and other tribes start jocking for position, benefiting some alot, other not much, merely restoring the status quo for others while failure of Palestine and resulting Jewish immigration is both good and bad for economic pressures.
* Wheat Scheme in Tanzania is OTL. Railway expansion partially OTL albeit expanded more due to greater pressures felt and longer run up to the ITTL WW2. The earlier decolonization has a greater effect with war on the way I think?
* Feedback welcome
[/FONT]
[FONT="]“The only people who can fix Africa are talented young Africans. By unlocking and nurturing their creative potential, we can create a step change in Africa's future”[/FONT]
[FONT="]Neil Turok[/FONT]
[FONT="]28th October 1939[/FONT]
[FONT="]North of Nairobi, former Kenya Colony, East African Federation[/FONT]
[FONT="]The march north from Nairobi had been both tiring and tense for the men of B Company, 4th Battalion, 2nd Division of the newly constituted East African Federal Army as since the start of ‘Operation Hammer’ two days ago when the division had been ordered from their staging positions, they had been given the occasionally bloody work of disarming the white settler militias as well as taking over patrolling against the armed and militant Kikuyu insurgency that erupted in former Kenya colony. [/FONT][FONT="]By and large the settler assembly of the colony and its supporters had been shut down without major resistance when the operation began at dawn on the 26th with many of the leaders of the colony had woken to find themselves at gunpoint from the ‘reinforcements’ sent by Britain and the nascent government of the Federation to the south in Tanganyika and Uganda which had finally reached their boiling point with the resistance of the white settler dominated colony to Imperial reforms and the resulting violent insurgency from the Kikuyu people.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Still though the company had seen two of its members slain and another three wounded in skirmishes with some of the armed mercenaries on the settler run farms and militias objecting, violently, to being disarmed and merged into the new Federal Army as well as two attacks from rebels seeking to exploit the disagreements between the two theoretical allied loyalist forces operating in lands stolen from members of their tribe months prior by the colonial administration and setting this mess in motion.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As the company trudged along the road northward with its trucks dating back to the Great War a more modern looking motorcycle ridden by a dirt covered rider with orders most likely from their battalion or divisional command to change their objective yet again as the day turned colder as midday turned into evening and the weather became less friendly for the marching column and its mortar support unit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The rider though brought his vehicle to a stop alongside the company’s senior officer, a young newly minted Major named Kasozi from the Buganda kingdom who’d managed to gain this position through various favours from his uncle’s family, and motioned to the north east “Orders from Divisional HQ Sir, your to bring your company northeast about six miles and link up with A Company, they’ve run into some resistance and want to teach a lesson”[/FONT]
[FONT="]Kasozi nodded tiredly resisting the urge to scowl as his men were expecting a rest period shortly and not to get into another fire fight so soon after the skirmish just outside Nairobi as he asked the nature of their enemy this time “Rebels or settler loyalists?” as the standing orders were to crack down hard on the first but where possible to go easy on the second.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Not that the new Major had any intention of that unless he had too, the white settlers of Kenya colony were a significant threat to the security of the Ghanda people within this new British created Federation and now that they’d weakened themselves and allowed their position to be challenged the informal orders from higher up in his clan and within the Federal Army was to make use of this precious opportunity to reduce their influence as the new government formed.[/FONT]
[FONT="]“Both probably Major” the dispatch rider replied stretching his arms and legs a moment and patting off some of the dust off his goggles “the group holed up in the village are some loyalist Kikuyu and settlers and the poor dumb bastards refused to disarm and shoots got fired” he thumbed in a direction of the supposed village “but division thinks there’s some rebels further up the track so A & B company are to secure the next three villages before nightfall then you’re to fort up for the night”[/FONT]
[FONT="]Kasozi could hear the restrained grumbling a short while later as the orders spread down along the line and company adjusted its direction a mile further down the road to move on the north-eastward fork of the poorly maintained road to the rumbling growl of the aging truck and sound of weapons being checked as orders were shouted down the line.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Unfortunately the units involved in Operation Hammer were taking significantly more time than planned to achieve their objectives, as the nature of operational security had required the deployment by the new Federal Army of three of its new divisions had been a major logistical effort hampered by the fact relative inexperience of its recruits and officer corps and the short timescale since the creation of the [FONT="]organization[/FONT] from major expansion of the Kings African Rifle companies prior to the operation.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As such while the two British Divisions which had landed in Dar es Salaam on the 24th had secured their objectives starting on the 26th as planned under the operational objectives, as well as those forces assigned to the northern highlands facing the potentially hostile Italian Army in Abyssinia, the Federal Army was significantly behind its original objectives which was had led to greater resistance from certain quarters as both the settlers and the rebel Kikuyu had time to [FONT="]organize[/FONT] a resistance in the first case or plan attacks in the second.[/FONT]
[FONT="] In the end though their proved to be no further resistance at the resisting township when B Company finally arrived a while later to link up with their compatriots in A Company the sight of the reinforcements deploying on the opposite flank of the village and both setting up their mortar support brought upon the sudden and unexpected urge for self-preservation and soon a white flag offering surrender was being marched forward......[/FONT]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[FONT="]Extract from: African Melting Pot: A History of the East African Federation by Evelyn Moikeenah (Nairobi Publishing Corporation) (2004) (East African Federation) [/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]....by the 7th November as such the initial objectives of Operation Hammer had been achieved, albeit three days later than originally planned as the remaining loyalist militia and constabulary were either disarmed or brought under the authority of their new federal alternatives as the combined forces of the British army and the new Federal army under British leadership brought the remainder of Kenya colony under martial law.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Resistance in the end had proven relatively light from forces deemed to have been under the authority of the settler run Kenyan Legislature folding without a fight or after initial token resistance, as with the arrest of the majority of its leadership on the first day of the Operation and significant forces brought to bear by the British government dissuaded all but the most hardliner of the settler [FONT="]organization[/FONT] to fall in line.[/FONT]
[FONT="]With this initial phase completed the British and Federal forces began move to secure the territory where Kikuyu irregulars were operating with active patrols and starting to establish blockhouses even as the British political establishment attempted to reach out to the leadership of the Kikuyu by offer a significant review of the land reform and greater political involvement for them in the newly established East African Federation under a model similar to that of the Bunyoro, Buganda and the recently established Jewish Autonomous Zone.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
These negotiations ran into initial difficulties due to the lack of trust in the British or Federal authorities by the Kikuyu leadership in delivering such reforms and from the hostility seen from the settler community at the stripping away of what they saw as they’re natural position within the colony. Though this position while reduced and having been from almost traitorous [FONT="]behavior[/FONT] towards the Crown still entailed significant privileges compared to whites even in Tanganyika or Uganda within the new entity, perhaps a sign of how politically inept or lacking in understanding the Kenyan settler community was.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As such for the closing months of the decade the British had managed to achieve the unfortunate feat of earning the dislike of both the settlers and the Kikuyu for perceived [FONT="]favoring[/FONT] of the other side, by the settlers for even engaging with the rebels while with the rebellious the lack of concrete proposals for reversing the land reform of the earlier thirties that had stripped vast acreage from the native population to enable creation of settler farmsteads; though by early nineteen forty a ceasefire had been established between the two sides, and while the settler community remained hostile it no longer possessed the capacity to do more than resist on a local level.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As the first year of the forties progressed the shadow of a possible Second Great War loomed over the British Empire and in many ways forced the issues of Kenya colony to a head with the presence of a major Italian army across the border to the north, as well as the need to enlarge and equip the Federal Army in line with building a solid governmental structure began to take on increased urgency as the months went by in nineteen forty. By the middle of the year as such this urgency can be seen by the broad range of concessions offered by the Colonial Office, through new Federal government such a near total reversion of land rights post-nineteen thirty-one and the acceptance of majority of the reforms requested by Harry Thuku’s Kikuyu Central Association in regards the colony which led to vocal, but ignored, protests by the settler community inspite of limited compensation offered by the British government for transfer of farmland.[/FONT]
[FONT="]This of course was in tandem with the continued [FONT="]mobilization[/FONT] of a new army, referred locally as Askaris, within the state as the months progressed inexorably towards the Second Great War; indeed as with many of Commonwealth states who were slated for independence during the thirties the creation of a effective military occurred prior to the effective creation of a effective political structure occurred within the East African Federation as immediate military concerns led to political compromises with the native population unthinkable a decade earlier.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
Hand in hand with this gradual [FONT="]militarization[/FONT] in the run up to the Second Great War was the increased investment in the new East African Federation by the British support towards a [FONT="]modernizing[/FONT] of the agricultural industry in Tanganyika in particular through the wheat scheme in an attempt to increase agricultural production based on experiences from the First Great War and expected rationing in any new conflict, which also spurred further investment and expansion of the rail system within Uganda and Tanganyika, with Kenya lagging due to the troubles there, though this imbalance would gradually be addressed during the Second Great War and in the post war period. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Further investment by Commonwealth bodies into helping establish the Jewish Autonomous Zone, as well as some support from the global Zionist movement, with the bloody failure of the Mandatory Palestine also served to boost industrial development in Uganda, though this development was weighted heavily amongst the new Jewish settler population and the established tribes such the Buganda while creating some resentment from groups such as the Bunyoro who felt they had not gained as much as their [FONT="]neighboring[/FONT] rivals, and the Luo and Kisi people who saw some economic loss to the new settlers and from eastward from the Arabo-Swahili mercantile class expanding from Zanzibar and Tanganyika in the new Federal structures.[/FONT]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes:
* As we can see there's winners and losers in decolonization and with approaching WW2 ITTL the willingness to put up with alot of the post & pre war settler shenanigans reaches its sell by date for very practical reasons for the 'declining' British Empire, but even then the white settlers in Kenya are still very, very privileged, just not as much as they'd like.
* And as the EAF forms alot of its elites and other tribes start jocking for position, benefiting some alot, other not much, merely restoring the status quo for others while failure of Palestine and resulting Jewish immigration is both good and bad for economic pressures.
* Wheat Scheme in Tanzania is OTL. Railway expansion partially OTL albeit expanded more due to greater pressures felt and longer run up to the ITTL WW2. The earlier decolonization has a greater effect with war on the way I think?
* Feedback welcome
Last edited:
theirishdreamer
Banned
Chapter 86: The Long Fella
[FONT="]“How could one argue with a man who was always drawing lines and circles to explain the position; who, one day, drew a diagram [/FONT][FONT="][here Michael illustrated with pen and paper] saying 'take a point A, draw a straight line to point B, now three-fourths of the way up the line take a point C. The straight line AB is the road to the Republic; C is where we have got to along the road, we cannot move any further along the straight road to our goal B; take a point out there, D [off the line AB]. Now if we bend the line a bit from C to D then we can bend it a little further, to another point E and if we can bend it to CE that will get us around Cathal Brugha which is what we want!' How could you talk to a man like that?” [/FONT]
[FONT="]Michael Collins, referring to de Valera in conversation with Michael Hayes (1921)[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Extract from: common-net website ‘alternativehistory.cw’ threads (1997) (April 6th - 9th)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Question! Why was Ireland’s internal policy so strange upon its initial entry into the Second Great War?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Poster: fulani-pirate-queen (Nigeria) (Abuja)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Hi there! First time posting a thread so hope I don’t sound a bit dense with this but when reading up on the Commonwealth’s reactions to entry into the 2nd Great War the Kingdom of Ireland seems to have taken some odd decisions after entering the war like getting rid of conscription right after needing to build up an army, having a general election but then forming a government of all the parties and then sending part of its army to Africa first even though France was only a little piece away![/FONT]
[FONT="]I’m curious why since I’m half Irish through my mother! (Though I haven’t been there yet) and was that why the Irish military mobilised slower than Canada and Britain?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Poster: forKingandCounty (Ireland) (the true capital of Ireland) (highcommissioner)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Don’t worry it’s a very reasonable and intelligent question to ask![/FONT]
[FONT="]As to answering it you have to consider the actions of the Irish government in the immediate run up to the Greek Guarantee and then the outbreak of fighting between the Italians and Greeks in February 1941 as well as the politics of Ireland at the time.[/FONT]
[FONT="]One of the most important things to remember about Irish foreign policy in the thirties as the European situation deteriorated was that it did NOT want to fight a war in any shape or form, and to that end it was very much aligned with the South African and Indian member states in opposing entanglements such as Czechoslovakia and Poland when they were absorbed into the Axis., but this strategy for the Anglo-French was failing as each success brought further Axis demands a little while afterward. So when the Second Entente moved to guarantee Greece in late 1940 when Italy appeared to be on the verge of making more demands the government basically found itself left with only a series of bad options on the table and along with the other two ‘peace faction’ members it found itself very reluctantly offering support to the Commonwealth while praying nothing would happen.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Sadly for them Mussolini was a greedy idiot, Hitler quite content to back him, the Greeks unwilling to back down and the Second Entente nations determined on a policy of ‘not one step back’ having finally grown a backbone, so when the whole train wreck started after the border clashes the British began invoking the Commonwealth defence treaties and League of Nation’s rulings with support of the French and the Soviets and the Irish government got handed this deeply divisive issue as their term of government was ending. So the usual politics took over and rest of the world became briefly irrelevant as the Labour Party and the Unionist Conservatives had to head off a possible constitutional challenge from Fianna Fail under Eamon de Valera, who if you dragged in the other nationalist parties could at a stretch possibly derail a declaration of war.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Bear in mind there was rioting in parts of Dublin, Kerry, Galway and Limerick at the announcement of Ireland planning on entering a ‘British War’, for all the talk of the war ‘uniting Ireland’ and being a ‘fight against fascist tyranny’ you hear with hindsight at the first few days of the war Ireland was facing yet another political crisis even as the National army were brought to alert status. So they the government cut a deal with de Valera, who for all the rhetoric and talk of being a ‘socialist idealist’ you hear from FFers these was a opportunistic bast.....pragmatist and really wanted to be in power again – result he got a General Election and being appointed head of the national unity government while the government got their declaration of war without a possible constitutional crisis and civil disorder by the FF TD’s abstaining their votes and their Senators not raising delays or objections.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Which leads into the next issue of a conscript army - conscription was HUGELY unpopular in Ireland with an actual war about to start and the nationalist parties’ essentially demanded the quasi-conscription system Collins had established in the twenties to prevent ‘Irish men being forced to fight and die at the hands of British Generals’. Now legally that couldn’t happen anyway owing to the restrictions in the Constitution, but de Valera in particular played it for all he was worth in those few weeks and the public......I won’t say panic but reaction isn’t strong enough ya know?.....made NOT changing it political suicide with the state for anyone but the northern Unionist TD’s – so there’s your real head scratcher of why as we entered a war and then decided to reorganise our military to a volunteer force.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As why the two active divisions of the National Army got sent off to Kenya and Absyinnia to fight the Italians is again a political reason for internal as well as Commonwealth political concerns – don’t let the official reasons of ‘logistical and training concerns’ fool you, while the National Army did have a different equipment set than the British Army sending them to France wasn’t going to be any more difficult than supplying than a bloody ocean away! The real reasons were;[/FONT]
[FONT="]1) [/FONT][FONT="]We sent two divisions as one was a southern (catholic nationalist) 2nd Division and the other the northern (protestant unionist) 1st Division and therefore a balance was maintained within the State in terms of armed forces – even as we joined the war the ‘enemy’ was still each other in some people’s minds.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2) [/FONT][FONT="]The National Army and the British Army had issues with each other. Ie. The National Army refused to let its divisions be commanded by the British Army officers and the British didn’t have much faith in Irish forces to work together and wanted in a sector less critical to the war effort. So off to Africa we went to join up with the East Africans and the Indians while the British and Canadian units we’d been training with went off to France.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3) [/FONT][FONT="]The new government wasn’t exactly united in the first few months of the war and desperately wanted to avoid Irish soldiers dying in large numbers – which would go down very, very, very badly in the country at that early stage of the war. So they sent off the two divisions they pretty much obliged to send, pushed for a region not likely to be facing massive trench warfare casualties (pre-war fears) and crossed fingers everything would be fine.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Yes I know it sounds stupid for a country to be so self-absorbed as it became involved in a global conflict but the risk of a German-Italian invasion was the stuff of fairytale while the possibility of serious civil disorder was very real and everyone knew it and in some cases take advantage of it.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Poster: fulani-pirate-queen (Nigeria) (Abuja)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Thank you for the information! [/FONT]J
[FONT="]Is that why Ireland was so slow to mobilise in 1941 and get other divisions into the fight? Changing over to a volunteer army threw things into chaos?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Poster: Dragonrider (Ireland) (Letterkenny)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Oddly enough no it wasn’t, as beyond a few exceptions the reserve division ‘conscripts’ became active as planned as well as the industrial plans from the Anglo-Irish war being reactivated relatively smoothly, and there was a significant upsurge in recruitment into the National Army immediately after the declaration of war on Italy and them the German Reich. What happened instead was that again political concerns rather than military ones continued interfering, two divisions was a major investment by Ireland at the early stage of the war and keeping the majority of the army at home was a major political concern as well as other fears of destabilising the State.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Poster: forKingandCounty (Ireland) (the true capital of Ireland) (highcommissioner)[/FONT]
[FONT="][Quote Dragon Rider][/FONT]
[FONT="]I’ll agree and disagree a little with that.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Your right in that there were significant political concerns and there was a surge (though it the reactivation of the women’s auxiliary forces is counted towards this figure so its slightly skewed in number terms) in army and naval recruitment unaffected by the scrapping of previous semi-conscription policies but another major reasons was that the National Army wasn’t ready to fight a war at that stage. Officially we had three active full time divisions, another immediate three reserve divisions that could be activated within thirty days and then in theory another two within sixty days from the secondary reserves – in real terms we had two divisions that were probably better equipped and trained than your average British equivalent (the ones we sent to Africa), and then the 4th Division was reasonably well trained but was under strength and of the three immediate reserve divisions (the 5th, 6th & 7th) only the northern based 5th was anything approaching a reasonable standard and the ‘secondary reserve’ wasn’t worth the paper it was written on.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We also badly underestimated the logistics of supporting our units in the field, especially far away, and for the first few months the National Army was literally force to take supplies from its home based divisions to maintain the two expeditionary ones! It took us months to expand the FA(E)-38 production facilities and its ammunition supplies to a level that we could maintain the rates of fire they used, as well all the other resources needed to maintain forces in the field – two divisions was the a stretch to maintain in 41’ for the State as well as the maintaining the Navy which was facing into the Battle of the Atlantic just as the Royal Navy suffered the ‘year that shall not be mentioned’ as well having the expansion and modernisation of the Airforce at the same time. So while Ireland managed to mobilise in line with, or even a little quicker than say Britain and Australia, supplying those forces took longer than was expected and due to the similar issues across the Commonwealth in expanding their militaries it took longer than expected till we could field that Corp sized force.[/FONT]
[FONT="] Poster: Dragonrider (Ireland) (Letterkenny)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Yeah I can sorta follow that, those automatic FA(E)’s were great in combat but burned through ammo faster than the quartermaster corps believed possible, same with new field guns we got from the Brits just before the war.....the 1st & 2nd burned through heavy munitions at a much higher rate than other Commonwealth formations till well in 42’ from what I remember reading. Then again considering how bad things got in 41’ sending’em away from France was probably a boon.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Poster: forKingandCounty (Ireland) (the true capital of Ireland) (highcommissioner)[/FONT]
[FONT="]True. Having the divisions captured or destroyed would have been a blow to the government and a public relations disaster so early in the war when Entente military performance was so poor, it would have badly shaken public faith in the war effort at a time when they were trying to drum up public support before the economy surged from supplying the war effort with bad news like the fall of Paris and the Soviet disaster on the Vistula already in the background.[/FONT]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes
* Got slightly ahead in having two updates so feedback is welcome.
* Yes Ireland joins the war, but as usual internal politics are messy. Plus Dev is political opportunist exploiting the situation for his own benefit.
[FONT="]“How could one argue with a man who was always drawing lines and circles to explain the position; who, one day, drew a diagram [/FONT][FONT="][here Michael illustrated with pen and paper] saying 'take a point A, draw a straight line to point B, now three-fourths of the way up the line take a point C. The straight line AB is the road to the Republic; C is where we have got to along the road, we cannot move any further along the straight road to our goal B; take a point out there, D [off the line AB]. Now if we bend the line a bit from C to D then we can bend it a little further, to another point E and if we can bend it to CE that will get us around Cathal Brugha which is what we want!' How could you talk to a man like that?” [/FONT]
[FONT="]Michael Collins, referring to de Valera in conversation with Michael Hayes (1921)[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Extract from: common-net website ‘alternativehistory.cw’ threads (1997) (April 6th - 9th)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Question! Why was Ireland’s internal policy so strange upon its initial entry into the Second Great War?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Poster: fulani-pirate-queen (Nigeria) (Abuja)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Hi there! First time posting a thread so hope I don’t sound a bit dense with this but when reading up on the Commonwealth’s reactions to entry into the 2nd Great War the Kingdom of Ireland seems to have taken some odd decisions after entering the war like getting rid of conscription right after needing to build up an army, having a general election but then forming a government of all the parties and then sending part of its army to Africa first even though France was only a little piece away![/FONT]
[FONT="]I’m curious why since I’m half Irish through my mother! (Though I haven’t been there yet) and was that why the Irish military mobilised slower than Canada and Britain?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Poster: forKingandCounty (Ireland) (the true capital of Ireland) (highcommissioner)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Don’t worry it’s a very reasonable and intelligent question to ask![/FONT]
[FONT="]As to answering it you have to consider the actions of the Irish government in the immediate run up to the Greek Guarantee and then the outbreak of fighting between the Italians and Greeks in February 1941 as well as the politics of Ireland at the time.[/FONT]
[FONT="]One of the most important things to remember about Irish foreign policy in the thirties as the European situation deteriorated was that it did NOT want to fight a war in any shape or form, and to that end it was very much aligned with the South African and Indian member states in opposing entanglements such as Czechoslovakia and Poland when they were absorbed into the Axis., but this strategy for the Anglo-French was failing as each success brought further Axis demands a little while afterward. So when the Second Entente moved to guarantee Greece in late 1940 when Italy appeared to be on the verge of making more demands the government basically found itself left with only a series of bad options on the table and along with the other two ‘peace faction’ members it found itself very reluctantly offering support to the Commonwealth while praying nothing would happen.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Sadly for them Mussolini was a greedy idiot, Hitler quite content to back him, the Greeks unwilling to back down and the Second Entente nations determined on a policy of ‘not one step back’ having finally grown a backbone, so when the whole train wreck started after the border clashes the British began invoking the Commonwealth defence treaties and League of Nation’s rulings with support of the French and the Soviets and the Irish government got handed this deeply divisive issue as their term of government was ending. So the usual politics took over and rest of the world became briefly irrelevant as the Labour Party and the Unionist Conservatives had to head off a possible constitutional challenge from Fianna Fail under Eamon de Valera, who if you dragged in the other nationalist parties could at a stretch possibly derail a declaration of war.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Bear in mind there was rioting in parts of Dublin, Kerry, Galway and Limerick at the announcement of Ireland planning on entering a ‘British War’, for all the talk of the war ‘uniting Ireland’ and being a ‘fight against fascist tyranny’ you hear with hindsight at the first few days of the war Ireland was facing yet another political crisis even as the National army were brought to alert status. So they the government cut a deal with de Valera, who for all the rhetoric and talk of being a ‘socialist idealist’ you hear from FFers these was a opportunistic bast.....pragmatist and really wanted to be in power again – result he got a General Election and being appointed head of the national unity government while the government got their declaration of war without a possible constitutional crisis and civil disorder by the FF TD’s abstaining their votes and their Senators not raising delays or objections.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Which leads into the next issue of a conscript army - conscription was HUGELY unpopular in Ireland with an actual war about to start and the nationalist parties’ essentially demanded the quasi-conscription system Collins had established in the twenties to prevent ‘Irish men being forced to fight and die at the hands of British Generals’. Now legally that couldn’t happen anyway owing to the restrictions in the Constitution, but de Valera in particular played it for all he was worth in those few weeks and the public......I won’t say panic but reaction isn’t strong enough ya know?.....made NOT changing it political suicide with the state for anyone but the northern Unionist TD’s – so there’s your real head scratcher of why as we entered a war and then decided to reorganise our military to a volunteer force.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As why the two active divisions of the National Army got sent off to Kenya and Absyinnia to fight the Italians is again a political reason for internal as well as Commonwealth political concerns – don’t let the official reasons of ‘logistical and training concerns’ fool you, while the National Army did have a different equipment set than the British Army sending them to France wasn’t going to be any more difficult than supplying than a bloody ocean away! The real reasons were;[/FONT]
[FONT="]1) [/FONT][FONT="]We sent two divisions as one was a southern (catholic nationalist) 2nd Division and the other the northern (protestant unionist) 1st Division and therefore a balance was maintained within the State in terms of armed forces – even as we joined the war the ‘enemy’ was still each other in some people’s minds.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2) [/FONT][FONT="]The National Army and the British Army had issues with each other. Ie. The National Army refused to let its divisions be commanded by the British Army officers and the British didn’t have much faith in Irish forces to work together and wanted in a sector less critical to the war effort. So off to Africa we went to join up with the East Africans and the Indians while the British and Canadian units we’d been training with went off to France.[/FONT]
[FONT="]3) [/FONT][FONT="]The new government wasn’t exactly united in the first few months of the war and desperately wanted to avoid Irish soldiers dying in large numbers – which would go down very, very, very badly in the country at that early stage of the war. So they sent off the two divisions they pretty much obliged to send, pushed for a region not likely to be facing massive trench warfare casualties (pre-war fears) and crossed fingers everything would be fine.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Yes I know it sounds stupid for a country to be so self-absorbed as it became involved in a global conflict but the risk of a German-Italian invasion was the stuff of fairytale while the possibility of serious civil disorder was very real and everyone knew it and in some cases take advantage of it.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Poster: fulani-pirate-queen (Nigeria) (Abuja)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Thank you for the information! [/FONT]J
[FONT="]Is that why Ireland was so slow to mobilise in 1941 and get other divisions into the fight? Changing over to a volunteer army threw things into chaos?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Poster: Dragonrider (Ireland) (Letterkenny)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Oddly enough no it wasn’t, as beyond a few exceptions the reserve division ‘conscripts’ became active as planned as well as the industrial plans from the Anglo-Irish war being reactivated relatively smoothly, and there was a significant upsurge in recruitment into the National Army immediately after the declaration of war on Italy and them the German Reich. What happened instead was that again political concerns rather than military ones continued interfering, two divisions was a major investment by Ireland at the early stage of the war and keeping the majority of the army at home was a major political concern as well as other fears of destabilising the State.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Poster: forKingandCounty (Ireland) (the true capital of Ireland) (highcommissioner)[/FONT]
[FONT="][Quote Dragon Rider][/FONT]
[FONT="]I’ll agree and disagree a little with that.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Your right in that there were significant political concerns and there was a surge (though it the reactivation of the women’s auxiliary forces is counted towards this figure so its slightly skewed in number terms) in army and naval recruitment unaffected by the scrapping of previous semi-conscription policies but another major reasons was that the National Army wasn’t ready to fight a war at that stage. Officially we had three active full time divisions, another immediate three reserve divisions that could be activated within thirty days and then in theory another two within sixty days from the secondary reserves – in real terms we had two divisions that were probably better equipped and trained than your average British equivalent (the ones we sent to Africa), and then the 4th Division was reasonably well trained but was under strength and of the three immediate reserve divisions (the 5th, 6th & 7th) only the northern based 5th was anything approaching a reasonable standard and the ‘secondary reserve’ wasn’t worth the paper it was written on.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We also badly underestimated the logistics of supporting our units in the field, especially far away, and for the first few months the National Army was literally force to take supplies from its home based divisions to maintain the two expeditionary ones! It took us months to expand the FA(E)-38 production facilities and its ammunition supplies to a level that we could maintain the rates of fire they used, as well all the other resources needed to maintain forces in the field – two divisions was the a stretch to maintain in 41’ for the State as well as the maintaining the Navy which was facing into the Battle of the Atlantic just as the Royal Navy suffered the ‘year that shall not be mentioned’ as well having the expansion and modernisation of the Airforce at the same time. So while Ireland managed to mobilise in line with, or even a little quicker than say Britain and Australia, supplying those forces took longer than was expected and due to the similar issues across the Commonwealth in expanding their militaries it took longer than expected till we could field that Corp sized force.[/FONT]
[FONT="] Poster: Dragonrider (Ireland) (Letterkenny)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Yeah I can sorta follow that, those automatic FA(E)’s were great in combat but burned through ammo faster than the quartermaster corps believed possible, same with new field guns we got from the Brits just before the war.....the 1st & 2nd burned through heavy munitions at a much higher rate than other Commonwealth formations till well in 42’ from what I remember reading. Then again considering how bad things got in 41’ sending’em away from France was probably a boon.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Poster: forKingandCounty (Ireland) (the true capital of Ireland) (highcommissioner)[/FONT]
[FONT="]True. Having the divisions captured or destroyed would have been a blow to the government and a public relations disaster so early in the war when Entente military performance was so poor, it would have badly shaken public faith in the war effort at a time when they were trying to drum up public support before the economy surged from supplying the war effort with bad news like the fall of Paris and the Soviet disaster on the Vistula already in the background.[/FONT]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes
* Got slightly ahead in having two updates so feedback is welcome.
* Yes Ireland joins the war, but as usual internal politics are messy. Plus Dev is political opportunist exploiting the situation for his own benefit.
theirishdreamer
Banned
Chapter 87: The Banality of Evil
[FONT="]"Every single case of inherited defect, every malformed child, every congenitally tainted human being brought into this world is of infinite importance to that poor individual; but it is of scarcely less importance to the rest of us and to all of our children who must pay in one way or another for these biological and racial mistakes."[/FONT]
[FONT="]Margaret Sanger
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Near Campus University of California[/FONT]
[FONT="]Los Angeles, United States of America,[/FONT]
[FONT="]18th February 2008 [/FONT]
“[FONT="].....and you didn’t buy me that lingerie I asked for?” Jennifer listened as her friend Annie continued to tease their quiet country bumpkin friend with a fake pout as the group of five sat around the table eating at their favourite restaurant as they celebrated Annie’s birthday and a well deserved break after classes were over for the day “Tut tut! It’s my birthday and [FONT="]you[/FONT] should get what I want shouldn’t you” she grinned at Danny who was blushing a deeper shade of red as she went on in whispered voice conspiratorially towards him “I might even have let you see me in them” with a wink.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The almost serious tone Annie had said it in combined with her broad grin, and then Danny nearly choking on his red wine with a face redder than said win had the others burst out in laughter as Danny mumbled under his break incoherently as Jennifer found herself having to step in “Oh leave Danny alone Annie! Not everyone is a big a free spirit as you” she snorted softly trying to stop her own laughter.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
It was quite funny to Jennifer as well because Annie was quite attracted to Daniel but the usually aggressive blonde couldn’t come out and directly say it, afraid she’d lose his friendship, and consciously skirted around the issue in her usual manner, Jennifer knew the teasing request and invitation was both half a teasing of Danny’s shyness as well as being partially serious. If Danny had bought her what she’d asked she probably be happily giving him a view once the rest of them were gotten out of the way.[/FONT]
‘[FONT="]And Danny God bless him’ Jennifer thought looking across at him as Annie apologised for teasing with a smile and the table got back to their meal ‘is too inexperienced and shy to pick up Annie’s semi-seriousness in her little campaign’[/FONT]
[FONT="]Which Jennifer knew was pushing Danny away a little from Annie these past few weeks as he seemed to think she was focusing on mocking him, with her being the wealthy, experienced and sociable city girl to his tendency to being introverted and having largely failed at getting a girlfriend in life till now, since her teasing had mostly focused on him with the veiled innuendo. Jennifer was going to step in soon enough anyway before this nonsense went on any longer and messed up their friendship, as both were really suited for each other and had good breeding behind them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
It was Joey who brought the conversation away from the other two by looking at her as he sipped some wine before asking “And how are you finishing working at the clinic soon Jen? Looking forward to having your weekends free again?” looking genuinely curious how her progress was going with the work experience for her medical degree was going.[/FONT]
“[FONT="]It’s hard work but rewarding” Jennifer replied honestly giving a smile as the work at the New Frontier Clinic was long and tiring but she had left the assignment knowing she was making the right career choice and that she could make a difference, make the world a better place with her efforts “and while it’ll be nice to have the weekends free again I’ll almost feel guilty not having to head in every Saturday I think when it’s up”[/FONT]
“[FONT="]You’re too hard a worker Jen, I don’t know where you get the energy!” Annie said looking up from her roast beef “Working all the time or studying when you’re not! Though how’d you get placed there actually? Was it the course head? Sorry I never asked till now” she said bringing her hand up to her chin as if trying to remember.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Jennifer waved off the oversight on her friend’s part, Annie was so absent minded at times “Actually through the college chapter of the National Eugenics Society, there always eager to help medical students achieve all they can be and they helped place me in one of their outreach centres” she replied recalling how helpful her society membership had been in getting into a working clinic helping less well off people while giving the best work practice available in the city “they even pay a little towards extra training material, it’s a fantastic programme and best of I got to see people making a difference in the real world even if it’s a bit sad sometimes”[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Oh how so?” Joey asked eating away at his steak as Arnold also looked curious since Jennifer was the only medical student of the group, with Annie and Danny both being engineering students while the other two boys were business based degrees.[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Well this poor couple came in last weekend and the doctor did the standard genetic trait tests and it came back positive for some possible defects” Jen said sadly remembering that lovely caring couple who’d discovered their child suffered from possible deviancy and been devastated to find it out, it had hurt watching them being informed of the results but Doctor Rosenberg had dealt with it laying out the options they had available and the Eugenics Society would cover the costs if they wished a termination “and it was hard to see them decide on a termination”[/FONT]
[FONT="]She shook her head then smiled sadly “But then I realised why we do these tests. After all what kind of life would that child have? The couple are young and healthy, and their lineage was good on both sides so their next child statistically should be healthy so when the facts were laid out to them they realised treatment was the only way”[/FONT]
“[FONT="]That’s kinda depressing Jen” Joey said looking at her sarcastically as Danny looked uncomfortable focusing on his meal, but Jennifer wasn’t surprised by that as Daniel was quite reactionary in his belief system preferring believing in superstitions than hard medical science about improving humanity through positive means like eugenics rather than some fanciful and backward notions “how does that inspire you anyway”[/FONT]
[FONT="]Jennifer smiled “Because while it’s sad on an individual level by catching the problems in the womb we can eliminate poor bloodlines and traits eventually, we all have better lives now thanks to the early pioneers of eugenics. The screening indicated positive results for homosexual deviancy and what sort of life is that to live living such a defect? The poor guy would have suffered all his life and not by any choice of his own” she shook her head ruefully “it’s much better this way. For the couple and society as a whole”[/FONT]
[FONT="]A quite voice came from Danny’s direction “we’re all God’s children Jen” as he looked down at his dinner looking embarrassed as Jennifer replied “Now Danny all successive studies by the eugenics society and the department of health have shown the Negroid and Asiatic racial classes have seen a significant improvement in the past decades in improving IQ and increasing positive genetic traits. Working towards eliminating negative genetic traits like deviancy will only serve to make the world a better place for everyone”[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Now, now children! No politics at the dinner table” Arnold interrupted “or Jen here will start lecturing us all again on the need to make the world a better place for you and for me and the entire human race!” he said jokingly teasing her with the opening slogan of the National Eugenics Society song since the eighties even managing to get an amused albeit exasperated sigh from Jennifer to the evident amusement of the others at the table even the grumpy Danny.[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Well some of us want to help make the world a better place for the next generation you know” she replied primly to her friend who flashed an aggravating and lazy grin at her “and I think that’s a truly inspiring slogan for helping all races reach their potential” as she shook her head at his usual laidback attitude, while she was debating to join the Malthus Foundation’s summer mission to Africa to help with the mess caused by the socialist Commonwealth and Communism in general which had left the continent overpopulated and suffering disease and chaos due to their misguided racial policies.[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Hmmmm....I think I’ll let you save the world Jen while I get a nice safe, stable and boring job in a bank” Arnold replied finishing off his meal and sitting back in the chair in a relaxed pose showing again his usual lack of ambition. Arnold was quite content to enjoy his time in University while not over exerting himself, it was no wonder he drove her hardworking self demented! [/FONT]
‘[FONT="]He should aim for more!’ she thought grumpily as Annie finished up her meal and winked at Danny gave a mock glare back before shaking his head as if not believing something as Jennifer barely noticed ‘He’s smart and handsome and too damned lazy! He needs some drive in his life!’[/FONT]
“[FONT="]You’ve just no drive at all Arnold” Annie said giving him a glance “society helps with your education nearly for free and you’d settle for second best. Tut-tut” giving him a mock scolding to the other amusement.[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Haha building the spaceships of the future like you and Dan boy? Or improving the health of the species like Jen? Not for me I’m afraid” Arnold replied contently arms folded in front of him “some of us know our limitations after all. Ain’t that right Joey?”[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Oh don’t drag me down with you slacker” Joey replied resting his chin in his hand while resting his elbow on the table looking at Arnold with amusement “I’ve got plans! Money, fancy cars, trophy wife, the whole nine yards!” he copied Annie’s mock scolding “Now listen to Mommy Annie and work hard and make something of yourself!”[/FONT]
[FONT="]The conversation went on through the desert as they all sang happy birthday to the birthday girl who for once was embarrassed being the centre of attention, what with their incredibly corny and sappy rendition and the glances directed towards the table in amusement by the other patrons of the restaurant, followed by a little clap as they finished their little ditty to Annie’s mortification.[/FONT]
[FONT="]They tipped the waitress, a lovely dark skinned woman, quite well as she had given great and friendly service throughout the whole service and as well they asked her thank the chef for them for such a wonderful meal as they left the restaurant and headed for a nearby bar before they headed home for the night, the place was relatively quiet for the night and the relaxed watching a repeat of a basketball game that Joey and Arnold as sports fans wanted to see.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Jennifer was glad of the chance to unwind after the studying, even if she didn’t admit it fully to the others and it was great to have the whole group out for the night for the first time in weeks, she even managed to get Danny to help Annie home hoping one of the two would take the hint........
[FONT="]
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="]"Every single case of inherited defect, every malformed child, every congenitally tainted human being brought into this world is of infinite importance to that poor individual; but it is of scarcely less importance to the rest of us and to all of our children who must pay in one way or another for these biological and racial mistakes."[/FONT]
[FONT="]Margaret Sanger
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Near Campus University of California[/FONT]
[FONT="]Los Angeles, United States of America,[/FONT]
[FONT="]18th February 2008 [/FONT]
“[FONT="].....and you didn’t buy me that lingerie I asked for?” Jennifer listened as her friend Annie continued to tease their quiet country bumpkin friend with a fake pout as the group of five sat around the table eating at their favourite restaurant as they celebrated Annie’s birthday and a well deserved break after classes were over for the day “Tut tut! It’s my birthday and [FONT="]you[/FONT] should get what I want shouldn’t you” she grinned at Danny who was blushing a deeper shade of red as she went on in whispered voice conspiratorially towards him “I might even have let you see me in them” with a wink.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The almost serious tone Annie had said it in combined with her broad grin, and then Danny nearly choking on his red wine with a face redder than said win had the others burst out in laughter as Danny mumbled under his break incoherently as Jennifer found herself having to step in “Oh leave Danny alone Annie! Not everyone is a big a free spirit as you” she snorted softly trying to stop her own laughter.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
It was quite funny to Jennifer as well because Annie was quite attracted to Daniel but the usually aggressive blonde couldn’t come out and directly say it, afraid she’d lose his friendship, and consciously skirted around the issue in her usual manner, Jennifer knew the teasing request and invitation was both half a teasing of Danny’s shyness as well as being partially serious. If Danny had bought her what she’d asked she probably be happily giving him a view once the rest of them were gotten out of the way.[/FONT]
‘[FONT="]And Danny God bless him’ Jennifer thought looking across at him as Annie apologised for teasing with a smile and the table got back to their meal ‘is too inexperienced and shy to pick up Annie’s semi-seriousness in her little campaign’[/FONT]
[FONT="]Which Jennifer knew was pushing Danny away a little from Annie these past few weeks as he seemed to think she was focusing on mocking him, with her being the wealthy, experienced and sociable city girl to his tendency to being introverted and having largely failed at getting a girlfriend in life till now, since her teasing had mostly focused on him with the veiled innuendo. Jennifer was going to step in soon enough anyway before this nonsense went on any longer and messed up their friendship, as both were really suited for each other and had good breeding behind them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
It was Joey who brought the conversation away from the other two by looking at her as he sipped some wine before asking “And how are you finishing working at the clinic soon Jen? Looking forward to having your weekends free again?” looking genuinely curious how her progress was going with the work experience for her medical degree was going.[/FONT]
“[FONT="]It’s hard work but rewarding” Jennifer replied honestly giving a smile as the work at the New Frontier Clinic was long and tiring but she had left the assignment knowing she was making the right career choice and that she could make a difference, make the world a better place with her efforts “and while it’ll be nice to have the weekends free again I’ll almost feel guilty not having to head in every Saturday I think when it’s up”[/FONT]
“[FONT="]You’re too hard a worker Jen, I don’t know where you get the energy!” Annie said looking up from her roast beef “Working all the time or studying when you’re not! Though how’d you get placed there actually? Was it the course head? Sorry I never asked till now” she said bringing her hand up to her chin as if trying to remember.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Jennifer waved off the oversight on her friend’s part, Annie was so absent minded at times “Actually through the college chapter of the National Eugenics Society, there always eager to help medical students achieve all they can be and they helped place me in one of their outreach centres” she replied recalling how helpful her society membership had been in getting into a working clinic helping less well off people while giving the best work practice available in the city “they even pay a little towards extra training material, it’s a fantastic programme and best of I got to see people making a difference in the real world even if it’s a bit sad sometimes”[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Oh how so?” Joey asked eating away at his steak as Arnold also looked curious since Jennifer was the only medical student of the group, with Annie and Danny both being engineering students while the other two boys were business based degrees.[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Well this poor couple came in last weekend and the doctor did the standard genetic trait tests and it came back positive for some possible defects” Jen said sadly remembering that lovely caring couple who’d discovered their child suffered from possible deviancy and been devastated to find it out, it had hurt watching them being informed of the results but Doctor Rosenberg had dealt with it laying out the options they had available and the Eugenics Society would cover the costs if they wished a termination “and it was hard to see them decide on a termination”[/FONT]
[FONT="]She shook her head then smiled sadly “But then I realised why we do these tests. After all what kind of life would that child have? The couple are young and healthy, and their lineage was good on both sides so their next child statistically should be healthy so when the facts were laid out to them they realised treatment was the only way”[/FONT]
“[FONT="]That’s kinda depressing Jen” Joey said looking at her sarcastically as Danny looked uncomfortable focusing on his meal, but Jennifer wasn’t surprised by that as Daniel was quite reactionary in his belief system preferring believing in superstitions than hard medical science about improving humanity through positive means like eugenics rather than some fanciful and backward notions “how does that inspire you anyway”[/FONT]
[FONT="]Jennifer smiled “Because while it’s sad on an individual level by catching the problems in the womb we can eliminate poor bloodlines and traits eventually, we all have better lives now thanks to the early pioneers of eugenics. The screening indicated positive results for homosexual deviancy and what sort of life is that to live living such a defect? The poor guy would have suffered all his life and not by any choice of his own” she shook her head ruefully “it’s much better this way. For the couple and society as a whole”[/FONT]
[FONT="]A quite voice came from Danny’s direction “we’re all God’s children Jen” as he looked down at his dinner looking embarrassed as Jennifer replied “Now Danny all successive studies by the eugenics society and the department of health have shown the Negroid and Asiatic racial classes have seen a significant improvement in the past decades in improving IQ and increasing positive genetic traits. Working towards eliminating negative genetic traits like deviancy will only serve to make the world a better place for everyone”[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Now, now children! No politics at the dinner table” Arnold interrupted “or Jen here will start lecturing us all again on the need to make the world a better place for you and for me and the entire human race!” he said jokingly teasing her with the opening slogan of the National Eugenics Society song since the eighties even managing to get an amused albeit exasperated sigh from Jennifer to the evident amusement of the others at the table even the grumpy Danny.[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Well some of us want to help make the world a better place for the next generation you know” she replied primly to her friend who flashed an aggravating and lazy grin at her “and I think that’s a truly inspiring slogan for helping all races reach their potential” as she shook her head at his usual laidback attitude, while she was debating to join the Malthus Foundation’s summer mission to Africa to help with the mess caused by the socialist Commonwealth and Communism in general which had left the continent overpopulated and suffering disease and chaos due to their misguided racial policies.[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Hmmmm....I think I’ll let you save the world Jen while I get a nice safe, stable and boring job in a bank” Arnold replied finishing off his meal and sitting back in the chair in a relaxed pose showing again his usual lack of ambition. Arnold was quite content to enjoy his time in University while not over exerting himself, it was no wonder he drove her hardworking self demented! [/FONT]
‘[FONT="]He should aim for more!’ she thought grumpily as Annie finished up her meal and winked at Danny gave a mock glare back before shaking his head as if not believing something as Jennifer barely noticed ‘He’s smart and handsome and too damned lazy! He needs some drive in his life!’[/FONT]
“[FONT="]You’ve just no drive at all Arnold” Annie said giving him a glance “society helps with your education nearly for free and you’d settle for second best. Tut-tut” giving him a mock scolding to the other amusement.[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Haha building the spaceships of the future like you and Dan boy? Or improving the health of the species like Jen? Not for me I’m afraid” Arnold replied contently arms folded in front of him “some of us know our limitations after all. Ain’t that right Joey?”[/FONT]
“[FONT="]Oh don’t drag me down with you slacker” Joey replied resting his chin in his hand while resting his elbow on the table looking at Arnold with amusement “I’ve got plans! Money, fancy cars, trophy wife, the whole nine yards!” he copied Annie’s mock scolding “Now listen to Mommy Annie and work hard and make something of yourself!”[/FONT]
[FONT="]The conversation went on through the desert as they all sang happy birthday to the birthday girl who for once was embarrassed being the centre of attention, what with their incredibly corny and sappy rendition and the glances directed towards the table in amusement by the other patrons of the restaurant, followed by a little clap as they finished their little ditty to Annie’s mortification.[/FONT]
[FONT="]They tipped the waitress, a lovely dark skinned woman, quite well as she had given great and friendly service throughout the whole service and as well they asked her thank the chef for them for such a wonderful meal as they left the restaurant and headed for a nearby bar before they headed home for the night, the place was relatively quiet for the night and the relaxed watching a repeat of a basketball game that Joey and Arnold as sports fans wanted to see.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Jennifer was glad of the chance to unwind after the studying, even if she didn’t admit it fully to the others and it was great to have the whole group out for the night for the first time in weeks, she even managed to get Danny to help Annie home hoping one of the two would take the hint........
[FONT="]
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="][FONT="]------------------------------------------------------------------
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="][FONT="][FONT="]Notes[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
* A few months Derekc2 asked if I could do up a ITTL 'modern' US POV. Well here it is and I must very make very clear I do not approve the character opinions nor their 'scientific' basis. But I very much wanted to show this USA* is a 'well meaning' racist and reactionary state - these are fundamentally nice people with a horrible twisted viewpoint.
* Eugenics till after WW2 was very much founded in progressive and secular thought in US and was heavily based in California. Here with an isolationist US and no direct evidence of the absolute horrors of 'genetic improvement' then it continues on that track ITTL. So it retains all its intellectual solidity in the forties and fifties as such and marches hand in hand with things that are positive like planned parenthood, etc.
* In terms of viewpoints above, I've tried to show their is some level of opposition to this mainstream view in the US (other than from outside like the ITTL Commonwealth or Soviet Union which disapprove) in the likes of Daniel based on religious groups, etc, but they are publicly seen as backwards - racism here is not like Dixiecrat's, its instead people out to 'help' to them 'lesser races' and 'genetic defects'.
* A few months Derekc2 asked if I could do up a ITTL 'modern' US POV. Well here it is and I must very make very clear I do not approve the character opinions nor their 'scientific' basis. But I very much wanted to show this USA* is a 'well meaning' racist and reactionary state - these are fundamentally nice people with a horrible twisted viewpoint.
* Eugenics till after WW2 was very much founded in progressive and secular thought in US and was heavily based in California. Here with an isolationist US and no direct evidence of the absolute horrors of 'genetic improvement' then it continues on that track ITTL. So it retains all its intellectual solidity in the forties and fifties as such and marches hand in hand with things that are positive like planned parenthood, etc.
* In terms of viewpoints above, I've tried to show their is some level of opposition to this mainstream view in the US (other than from outside like the ITTL Commonwealth or Soviet Union which disapprove) in the likes of Daniel based on religious groups, etc, but they are publicly seen as backwards - racism here is not like Dixiecrat's, its instead people out to 'help' to them 'lesser races' and 'genetic defects'.
Last edited:
theirishdreamer
Banned
hmm
No worries
Glad your enjoying.
FDR never became Governor in the late twenties because Al Smith never ran for President due to the 'Irish Red Scare' caused by the Irish-Soviet links (which means Smith stays Governor), and because of this theres no New Deal, the best they get is Huey Long for President for a few years......till he gets assassinated. Then Garner becomes President and takes a more conservative economic approach. I'll go into it more as the TL progresses but the assent of 'eugenics' marches hand in hand with things we'd consider modern or liberalizing in other circumstances.
Japan is more focused on the Soviet Union here because they took Manchuria off them a little while earlier in TL. ITTL WW2 looks so like a more mobile reply of WW1 with Japan swapping sides. So the US is just as isolationist as OTL, the Anglo-French look less sympathetic (most see Brits as Communists) and none of the events that led to OTL US intervention really happen.
Edit - Dunno where the post i was replying too went?
great updates! sorry I didn't notice the previous ones though
No worries
Glad your enjoying.
FDR never became Governor in the late twenties because Al Smith never ran for President due to the 'Irish Red Scare' caused by the Irish-Soviet links (which means Smith stays Governor), and because of this theres no New Deal, the best they get is Huey Long for President for a few years......till he gets assassinated. Then Garner becomes President and takes a more conservative economic approach. I'll go into it more as the TL progresses but the assent of 'eugenics' marches hand in hand with things we'd consider modern or liberalizing in other circumstances.
Japan is more focused on the Soviet Union here because they took Manchuria off them a little while earlier in TL. ITTL WW2 looks so like a more mobile reply of WW1 with Japan swapping sides. So the US is just as isolationist as OTL, the Anglo-French look less sympathetic (most see Brits as Communists) and none of the events that led to OTL US intervention really happen.
Edit - Dunno where the post i was replying too went?
StephenColbert27
Banned
I made the post, and then I realized that I had missed a post that answered a few of my questions. Sorry about that.