Discussion: Why Jane Grey instead of Frances Brandon?

[Cate13]

Does anyone know why Edward chose Jane instead of Frances as his successor? I’ve heard that Frances did something to tick him off or that Jane was more likely to have a son since she would have more childbearing years, but I’ve never found a definitive answer.

@FalconHonour @RedKing @Jan Olbracht @VVD0D95

 

[Deleted member 147978]

Here's my guess, perhaps Lady Jane Grey as the same Calvinist-leaning views as him? :V

 

[RedKing]

I think it was because with Jane, she was more likely to produce a male heir than Frances, and that they didn't want to risk passing over said male heir. I also think it was because Edward just preferred Jane in general.

 

[Mikestone8]

Northumberland wanted hs son as King Consort, and Frances was already married. So he evidenttly persuaded Edward accordingly.

 

[HortenseMancini]

Agree with everything said here, and I would like to add that frances's husband, henry grey, was considered a bit of an idiot when it came to politics so nobody wanted him as consort.

 

[marktaha]

I wish Frances had seized the throne. She probably deserved to be beheaded - Jane didn't.

 

[Tudorfan]

Apparently, Frances did, IOTL, have a "I WAS PASSED OVER!?!?!?! SLDOJBGHFBJDUBDHUBBFZBHHDF! *ANGRY!*" reaction until she and her husband had a "private meeting" with the King and she "changed her mind".

I'd assume Edward went "Uh, no," to having Frances succeed him because she was Catholic, unlike Jane.

 

[Cate13]

So, how Protestant would Frances have to be for Edward to consider her over Jane?

 

[RedKing]

So, how Protestant would Frances have to be for Edward to consider her over Jane?

Probably Calvinist level Protestantism, since he might have skipped over Elizabeth for not being Protestant enough, at least in his eyes.

 

[HortenseMancini]

she was Catholic

was frances catholic? aiui she played ball with the establishment, religion wise, which at this point would mean protestantism

 

[HortenseMancini]

Probably Calvinist level Protestantism, since he might have skipped over Elizabeth for not being Protestant enough, at least in his eyes.

edward probably believed strongly that women shouldn't rule at all. it's not unlikely that, had he lived, he would've introduced an english equivalent of the salic law (or something similar). anyways, in regards to elizabeth and mary specifically edward considered them to be bastards and thus unfit for the throne.

 

[Cate13]

Probably Calvinist level Protestantism, since he might have skipped over Elizabeth for not being Protestant enough, at least in his eyes.

I always thought Elizabeth got passed over for either illegitimacy or that she tried to get passed over because she knew if she end up up Queen while Mary was alive she’s go the way of Jane Grey. Or some combination.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

Does anyone know why Edward chose Jane instead of Frances as his successor? I’ve heard that Frances did something to tick him off or that Jane was more likely to have a son since she would have more childbearing years, but I’ve never found a definitive answer.

@FalconHonour @RedKing @Jan Olbracht @VVD0D95

There's a fascinating documentary by the excellent Helen Castor available on Youtube which explains this quite fully.

 

[mrmandias]

Would it have made a difference if he had gone with Brandon?

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

Would it have made a difference if he had gone with Brandon?

Quite possibly.

Frances Brandon was still capable of producing children, two years after Jane's execution, Frances was still producing children for her second husband.

Question is - would the situation have been different if in 1553 had Frances Brandon given birth to a healthy son before Edward VI died.

 

[RedKing]

edward probably believed strongly that women shouldn't rule at all. it's not unlikely that, had he lived, he would've introduced an english equivalent of the salic law (or something similar). anyways, in regards to elizabeth and mary specifically edward considered them to be bastards and thus unfit for the throne.

I always thought Elizabeth got passed over for either illegitimacy or that she tried to get passed over because she knew if she end up up Queen while Mary was alive she’s go the way of Jane Grey. Or some combination.

Ah, I stand corrected then. Though religion light have played some role.

 

[HortenseMancini]

Question is - would the situation have been different if in 1553 had Frances Brandon given birth to a healthy son before Edward VI died.

yes i think so. edward ideally wanted his heir to be a protestant male, which would describe perfectly a son of frances born in 1553 or earlier.

 

[Welshroyalhistory]

yes i think so. edward ideally wanted his heir to be a protestant male, which would describe perfectly a son of frances born in 1553 or earlier.

But while that would meet Edward's goal of securing a legitimate Protestant male succession, it deprives Northumberland of his personal investment in having his son as the spouse of the monarch.

 

[HortenseMancini]

But while that would meet Edward's goal of securing a legitimate Protestant male succession, it deprives Northumberland of his personal investment in having his son as the spouse of the monarch.

Ok but like...child born in 1553 is gonna need a regent, yeah? Enter northumberland

 

[mrmandias]

yes i think so. edward ideally wanted his heir to be a protestant male, which would describe perfectly a son of frances born in 1553 or earlier.

But that's assuming the additional POD that Brandon has an ATL son she didn't have OTL. If the only thing we change is that Edward VI gets fixated on inheritance rules and thinks Brandon's claim is stronger, we still just get Mary I, right?