Different defeat

[Parma]

Before the Great War, the bulk of the Dutch surface fleet was formed by a series of armored ships, which can best be described as seagoing coastal defence ships. They were armed with two 240-mm and four 150-mm guns. Laid down between 1898 and 1905, these ships just predated the famous HMS Dreadnought, the ship that would spark a revolution in warship design which would last four decades. The placement of a large number of heavy-calibre guns as on Dreadnought, rendered the Dutch designs obsolete. Nevertheless an improved version of the earlier build vessels was designed in 1908 and presented to pairlement for aprovement of the funds. The obsolete disign however sparked a discussion in pairlement and out side if the navy did not need more power full naval units in the light of an ever increasing japanese Navy to protect its most presciuos Colony the Indonesain Archipel. A state commission was establised and within 1 month already came with an altenative proposal.
The Netherlands Navy should have nine battleships The dreadnoughts were 27.000 tons, armed with 345-mm guns, eight in total, and had a maximum speed of some 27 knots. The armament of the battleships : 8 guns of 343 mm and a speed of 21 knots.
Since there were many Dutch ship yards there was none of them with experience of designing this type of ships several German and British ship yards were contacted to make designs.
After many proposals and debate inpairlement of the need of this kind of fleet. In 1911 the design of Krupp Germania was accepted, the German ship yard was also awarded since the company showed a readiness to work with the Dutch industry extensively.

The final disign was
This dockyard worked relentlessly to make improvements and came up with the most effective design. They proposed a ship with two high funnels and the eight L/50 main guns in twin turrets, two forward and two aft. The 150 mm guns were placed well above the deck, with a wide arc of fire. It had seven boilers, which produced steam to gear three turbine sets and three shafts. They thought to be able to deliver this ship in 28 months. Displacement had risen to 25.000 tons , with a maximum speed of 22 knots. Endurance was increased to 6000 miles and the calibre of the main armament to 350 mm.
The number of ships how ever was reduced to 6. Naval base at sourabaya should be increased to handle this type of ships.
Further would the navy been increased with 6 light cruisers ( 3 new 3 older modernised ''pantserdeck'' cruisers), some 12 destroyers, 12 torpedo boats ( already existing) and 24 submarines and othe auxilairy vessels.
The hughe cost would be carried largly by the NIE and imposing new tax tarrifs.

 

[Parma]

The ambitious fleet did not materialise due to the out break of WW1. Exept for 3 battle ships and the modernisation of the old ''pantserdeck'' cruisers, and 8 submarines, 7 destroyers and the laydaown of the 3 light cruisers.
The naval bases at Soerabaya and Tandjong Priok was enlarged to handle the large units during the WW1 and the twenties. Soerabaya became one of the largest and best equiped bases of the alies in South East Asia.
After the Great war the plan was abandoned, but after heavy debate an alternative plan was accepted, which was mainly the completion of the light cruisers and submarines and destroyers.
The battle ships would stay in service, well maintained ( spic and span) but never modernised and most of the time undermaned ( saving on personel)
until the thirties.

Resulting in a more serious Dutch navy at the disposal for the Dutch Admiral Helfrich in 1942 against the Japanese.
Due to several developments that went different as in OTL in earlier decades the fleet consist of:

3 Battleships, build between 1912 and 1914

The ships were part of the very ambitious fleet plan that did not completely materialised due to the WW1.
The Ships were build and designed by Krupp Germania. These ships looked on appearance as Derfflinger class battlecruisers only slightly smaller.

After the atrocities made by Japan in China and the increasing aggressive foreign politics of Japan, these ships were seriously modernised and upgraded in stead of decommissioned.
The ships never modernised since there commission.
Main parts of the modernisation were there boilers, secondary armament, fire controls and installing of the Philps designed radar.
Secondary armament was 16x 15 cm guns in casemates, these were replaced by 12 x 102 cm dual purpose guns in 6 turrets.

3 battlecruisers, build between 1934 and 1938
9 x 350 main guns in 3 turrets
34 knots

Initially ordered to replace the battleships, and mainly financed by the Dutch East Indian Government. Were based on the German, Deutschland class panzershiffe, only enlarged and finally developed parallel with the much heavier armoured Scharnhorst class ships, which they resembled. Build on Dutch yards.

3 Java class light cruisers build between 1914 and 1924
Were initially part of the 1912 Fleet plan as the battleships were.
Due to the outbreak of WW1 finished 10 years later and after a major redesign. Finished with 8 x 15 cm guns in 4 turrets and with a larger AA armament instead of 10 x 15 cm guns in single positions behind shields.

3 De Ruyter class light cruisers build between 1932 and 1936
Much debated enlargement of the fleet, mainly to keep the shipyards busy after the crach of 1929. Enlarged Java class ships 8 x15 cm main armament.

3 light cruisers build between 1937 and 1939
Initially build to replace the Java class enlarged de Ruyter class
10 x 15 cm main armament

28 destroyers divided in 3 classes build between 1924 and 1939

32 submarines divided in 6 classes build between 1925 and 1939

8 mine laying submarines


The air wing of the navy in the DIE consist out:
72 flying boats build by Dornier
36 smaller flying boats build by Fokker
26 Torpedo bombers build by Fokker based on the TV bomber.
The air wing of the Royal Dutch Indonesian army (KNIL) consist out of:

150 light bombers/reconnaissance planes Fokker G1, designed after specifications of the Belgium air force who used them in the same role, and as modernisation/replacement of their fleet of Fairey Fox planes
44 fighters, Fokker DXXII, a further development of the DXXI
55 fighters, Belgian designed Renard R36
80 heavy fighters based on the Fokker G1 single seat and smaller, redesigned to meet the requirements of the KNIL
56 C10 biplane reconnaissance planes and trainers.

Several civilian planes of Fokker, Renard R35, Douglas and other factories.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Looking at this I am thinking that the Japanese are going to be focused more on using their carriers to destroy the Dutch fleet and render it less of a threat on their flank.

Whether this delays the invasion of Malaya, or not, I am not sure

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

 

[ranoncles]

Just where are you going with these random lists of rather improbable ships and planes?

Besides showing the excellent quality of crack you've been smokin' .

There is simply no way the Dutch would have spent that kind of money on their armed forces. You're talking of huge sums of money when historically, there was very little money available for defense.

There are simply limits on what can be done in a reasonable ATL. Moving panzer divisions around or arguing a different policy or strategy is one thing, spending monopoly money to build an imaginary fleet is a different kettle of fish. And your air force is as big as those of several of the smaller powers put together...

Unless the Dutch suddenly found their inner German and decided to build a huge force to attack other countries, they would never have such a force. They certainly wouldn't spend that much on their defence....

And the idea that the East Indies government could afford that kind of force is simply ludicrous. They would have to exploit the natives in rather imaginative ways to get the money. And the natives would undoubtedly demand political concessions when forced to pay for their own defense in such a way.

Maybe you want to flesh out your OP so it does make some sense.......?

 

[Parma]

The fleet is build up during 2 decades.
The figures are not realy spring sharp accurate I know.
Historicly the Dutch gouverment wanted to build a fleet of 9, later reduced to 6 dreadnoughts and auxiliary ships and increasing one or two bases in the archipel in 1911. Due too long debate and a Great War, this never come real. The battleships would most likeley be build by Krupp Germania, claiming they could deliver in 27 months.
ITL this ambitious plan started earlier and made for real.
Before the outbreak of WW1 it materialised in 3 battleships, later nurished and painted during 2 decades and at the last moment modernised.
Battlecruisers were also seriuos considered at the end of the 30ties OTL, this time some people start falling in love of the Deutschland and Dunkerque class in the early 30ties as a replacement for the battleships.
Due to politics of Japan the battleships were modernised at the very last moment.
Colonial Gouverment had a large influence in the gouverment of the homeland and could make some decisions by its own.
The number of aircraft is simmilair as what was available in 1942 OTL, only with different type of aicraft.
The money was available, only all the Dutch cabinets were to greedy, or had other priorities, than to spent it on defence. The budget in OTL was in the 20ties and 30ties rediculisly in risponsible low.
The G1 aircraft I contemplate is a reconnaicance plane, tactical bomber, ground supprt type. G1 one seater is a light bomber, heavy fighter, for long distances, and with one pilot reducing the pilots needed.
Regarding personel, in OTL a lot af the sailors were Indonesian.