Department of Overlooked Technologies, Unusual Effects, and Forgotten Weapons
- Thread starter NHBL
- Start date
I think it is involved with logic gates used by processors which use fluids instead of electrons..though I never was good with logic gates. Not really sure how it would work with fluids replacing electronics in processors, and to what practical use it would have (speed involved)
Edit:
See Wikipedia for details, and fluidic computing.
Edit:
See Wikipedia for details, and fluidic computing.
Doubtful. La Jamais Contente- the last EV to hold the absolute land speed record- set a record of 66 mph. It did so in 1899. The record doubled in the next 10 years.
Electric cars were very popular in the early 20th century, but fell out of favour for various reasons:
Internal-combustion vehicles were cheaper to make and faster.
The electric starter meant that gasoline engines no longer had to be hand-cranked (a main selling point of electrics).
The electricity supply switched from DC to AC. As rectifiers had yet to be invented, it became very difficult to charge batteries.
Steam engines are a big what-if- the Greeks could have developed them.
Uses for these devices...
The electric gatling gun would be of great use against torpedo boats, and later on, against aircraft in their early days. And as a fortress gun, or even an aircraft gun later on...quite useful. And a machine gun like that might have led to the tank. In short, I think it was a bit to far ahead of its time, but had a potential to be very useful.
Radar: Simple. If you know there's ships out there that aren't yours, you can deploy into line before they can. Also, radar would reduce the chances of plowing into ice at high speed, find where the land is, etc.
The assault rifle...well, if it had been developed, I suspect that the reliability issues would have been resolved fast enough. It came on the scene in the wrong place; I suspect that it might have been developed if it had been invented in a more prosperous nation.
I tried to find things that would have a place in the scheme of things of the era they were invented in, or soon after.
The electric gatling gun would be of great use against torpedo boats, and later on, against aircraft in their early days. And as a fortress gun, or even an aircraft gun later on...quite useful. And a machine gun like that might have led to the tank. In short, I think it was a bit to far ahead of its time, but had a potential to be very useful.
Radar: Simple. If you know there's ships out there that aren't yours, you can deploy into line before they can. Also, radar would reduce the chances of plowing into ice at high speed, find where the land is, etc.
The assault rifle...well, if it had been developed, I suspect that the reliability issues would have been resolved fast enough. It came on the scene in the wrong place; I suspect that it might have been developed if it had been invented in a more prosperous nation.
I tried to find things that would have a place in the scheme of things of the era they were invented in, or soon after.
The biggest problem with the 1893 Gatling Gun was the cartridge. It fired the same round as the 30/40 Krag, which was a blackpowder weapon. As a result the weapon was extremely prone to fouling. By the time the U.S. Army had converted to the 30-03 (quickly supplanted by the 30-06) smokeless round the Maxim Gun had taken over the rapid fire market. Post war, the U.S. got the Browning M1 .30 cal and then the mighty M2 .50 cal & the Gatling was forgotten.
There was also the matter of weight, While it might not have mattered on a battleship, Gatling guns were HEAVY (300 pounds without the mount/limber). A Maxim gun was under 30 pounds (even the Ma Deuce 50 is inder 125 LB WITH tripod) making it man portable. The Gatlings were always seen as artillery while the gas recoil weapons were seen as infantry weapons.
the_lyniezian
Banned
What I meant was, if internal-combustion vehicles weren't more popular (and hence more economically viable), electric vehicles might have developed quicker, as more reasearch could have gone into them. From wht you say, we would have to have DC winning the 'power war', which would require local generation of course- AC became popular as it could be distributed over a wider area (as it could be transformed in a way that it would lose less power).
Problem and solution
The 1893 Gatling was a black powder weapon, sure...but it could have been developed for the warship application as smokeless came about. In short, it could have been remembered if the right person was digging through archives at the right time.
The 1893 Gatling was a black powder weapon, sure...but it could have been developed for the warship application as smokeless came about. In short, it could have been remembered if the right person was digging through archives at the right time.
I think you miss the point.
Radar was demonstrated in 1904 but the world’s navies were not interested. Why? You give reasons why they should be but not why it was not developed and installed on ships. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I suspect that the demonstrations involving radar in 1904 were so fuzzy and virtually useless that the Admirals simply saw it as a gimmick. Naval investment was better directed towards more efficient gunnery or better ships. The Dreadnought was the result.
The gatling gun may well have been useful against aircraft unfortunately there were no aircraft in 1893! As for going to the expense and trouble of fitting this complicated and apparently unreliable gun to defend against torpedo boats my question is what naval strategist at the time thought that torpedo boats would be a threat to battleships deployed behind a screen of destroyers? Destroyers were invented to counter torpedo boats after all. Torpedo boats did not sink a battleship until 1915 and even then HMS Goliath was at anchor.
As for installing them in fortresses where would the electric power come from? Generators inside the fort would need a lot of fuel (coal) and stokers and reliable cables connecting them to the gun emplacements. Generators were big and extremely vulnerable too so they would be a very easy target and once hit all these wonderful weapons would be useless. Even one shell would probably be enough to put the generator out of action.
You seem to be missing the point on the Gatling if it was such a terrible weapons system why does my HMMV have one mounted on top of it,in the same suggested smokeless caliber ? And why does EVERY ship in the world use one for anti missle defence? Not mentioning the AA guns,aircraft/helo weapons Etc.
The Gatling was a weapons system that out ran the technology needed to make it effective and portable,as for the elictrical power required huge generators aren't needed,In fact it ran on DC not AC so batteries required which can be recharged with a hand cranked generator
As for Radar these are the same Admirals who saw no use for Submarines or Aircraft right? Yes it was a primitive form of Radar but every syatem requires refinement before general issue.What might the state of Radar research be if there was a 30 year head start oh the butterflies in electronics research.
The Gatling was a weapons system that out ran the technology needed to make it effective and portable,as for the elictrical power required huge generators aren't needed,In fact it ran on DC not AC so batteries required which can be recharged with a hand cranked generator
As for Radar these are the same Admirals who saw no use for Submarines or Aircraft right? Yes it was a primitive form of Radar but every syatem requires refinement before general issue.What might the state of Radar research be if there was a 30 year head start oh the butterflies in electronics research.
One concept I always deplored the loss of is early sytematic empirism. Greek medicine was entirely empirical in its infancy (and one suspects so were the neighbouring traditions, though we hear nothing of them since no writings survive instead of merely very few). With the advent of 'natural philosophy' for want of a better word (the presocratics), medical studies took literacy and an experimental frame of mind on board. Soon afterwards, though, the humoral theory gained ground. Sadly, it was the perfect illustration of small and winding road to heaven vs. broad and smooth way to hell - humoral pathology was intuitive, cosmologically satisfying, impressive, probably deployed a considerable placebo effect independent of the practitioner, and got results.
If empirical medicine had been systematised in the 6th and 5th centuries BC, this would have created several specific and very interesting technology needs - needs the Greeks could have met. It would have required a large-scale exchange of information over long distances, a systematic classification of the materia medica, a precise diagnostic language, the technology to store and retreive large amounts of data and to analyse patterns, and a systematised fashion of carrying out erxperiments. Much of this already existed in other parts of the world and could have been adopted. Other things emerged later. But not in this combination. Now, imagine - just imagine - what Alexander could have achieved if he had had a proper census office. Imagine what Archimedes or Hero would have been with findings publications and correspondence networks. Envision the moment Varro looks at the medical files on Cos and decides that procedure could be used to maximise business profits as well as curing disease.
If empirical medicine had been systematised in the 6th and 5th centuries BC, this would have created several specific and very interesting technology needs - needs the Greeks could have met. It would have required a large-scale exchange of information over long distances, a systematic classification of the materia medica, a precise diagnostic language, the technology to store and retreive large amounts of data and to analyse patterns, and a systematised fashion of carrying out erxperiments. Much of this already existed in other parts of the world and could have been adopted. Other things emerged later. But not in this combination. Now, imagine - just imagine - what Alexander could have achieved if he had had a proper census office. Imagine what Archimedes or Hero would have been with findings publications and correspondence networks. Envision the moment Varro looks at the medical files on Cos and decides that procedure could be used to maximise business profits as well as curing disease.
He was? What I know of Imhotep would maybe fit half a postcard and basically I know him as a legendary and later deified scribe-scholar and polymath, not a theoretical thinker. I certainly wouldn't put it past him, but I doubt that empiricism isn't something you can 'invent'. Like the scientific method, it would more likely be a gradual emergence of what gets results, codified piecemeal and progressively refined by generations of practitioners. After all, no apple ever hit popper on the head.
CanadianGoose
Banned
Gatling was not a bad weapon, it had been design which had no advantages over it's peers. Modern Gatlings owe their existence to the jet engine, as they are used either as anti-aircraft or aircraft weapon. Prop-driven aircraft can not move fast enough to avoid well-trained burst of the machinegun fire from the close distance. Jet can simply "fly between bullets", so to speak. Therefore introduction of the jet engine caused immediate resurgence of the Gatling. It simply had no target to shoot at in 1893.
Babbage machine
I hate to bring this up, but what about the Babbage machine.
In addition, I was watching a show on the History channel a few months ago and they were discussing ancient chinese weapons. They were showing a flamethrower and an anti-ship missile built hundreds of yrs before western armies had developed them.
I hate to bring this up, but what about the Babbage machine.
In addition, I was watching a show on the History channel a few months ago and they were discussing ancient chinese weapons. They were showing a flamethrower and an anti-ship missile built hundreds of yrs before western armies had developed them.
It was a bit short on range and reliability to counteract a torpedo boat. For that matter it was short on range to deal with aircraft unless they flew very close indeed. The Gatling we are discussing is a black powder weapon, not a modern cannon. A weapon will only make a comeback if it provides a significant advantage.
Less than 10. In 1906, the record rose rose from 109mph (set in 1905) to 127mph, which wasn't beaten until 1919, unless you count Glenn Curtiss' V8 motorcycle.
I've heard that the rapid discharge ruined the batteries, so he had to replace them for every run.
Electric cars were popular when roads weren't good enough for long-distance travel. When distances to travel lengthened, that's when electric fell out of favor. And then the hand-cranking was a major issue. I've heard that a major market for electric cars was women.
DC lost the "power war" because it wasn't as safe as AC.
There's still the advantage of not having barrels overheating.
Wow! That is so awesome.
And paddle-wheels. I saw a show on TV once where they built a Roman flame-thrower.
1) I quite agree. It's a pity that all the ideas of what would become the Renaissance and Enlightenment (with the exception of human rights and religious freedom) were there in the 5th century, but took +2000 years to reach fruition.
2) I disagree over the course of Greek empiricism. IMO, as late as Aristotle, the empirical tradition is alive and kicking: he himself uses an empirical method in his biological work (all the samples from Alexander). I would tend to blame the growth of a scholastic attitude on the part of the librarians at Alexandria and the dogmatic squabbles of the Academy and Lyceum. However, even Galen centuries into the Roman era beleived in and practiced empiricism, performing discetions of pigs and expecting future generations to do the same. His work suffered the same fate, being transmitted by generations of monastic followers who thought education equated to being well read.
None of this is to say that I disagree that a more empirical Greek science could well have seen the pace of technological advancement vastly increase (steam power triremes any one?). Quite the contrary, oh how the steam punk visions flow.
Ummmm no. Antibiotics have no effect on viruses. They only work on bacteria and the Spanish Flu was caused by a virus. The people that died from the flu, did not die from some sort of secondary infection, but what is called a cytokine storm, which is a massive over reaction by the body's immune system. This over reaction causes an accumulation of fluid and cells at the area of the infection. Since the site of influenza infection is the lungs, the lungs were basically closed off, causing the victims to die from respiratory failure. The disease was unique in that those with the stronger immune systems were more likely to die from this cytokine storm than those with weaker immune systems. That is why adults in the prime of their life died in the numbers they did.
Torqumada