Demographics of a Russian Alaska?

[jhuro]

If Alaska remains Russian well into the 20th century, how would its demographics be affected by the Gold Rush and oil boom? Would the American or Canadian influx of miners and prospectors overrun any Russian/Ukrainian/Central Asian etc. settlement? What about the indigenous population?

 

[Ogrelord420]

Stalin might use Alaska instead of Kazakhstan to deport supposedly "Nazi-supporting" minorities during WW2, so expect to see a lot of Ukrainians, Germans, Chechens, etc. living there throughout the Soviet period.

 

[Gabingston]

Stalin might use Alaska instead of Kazakhstan to deport supposedly "Nazi-supporting" minorities during WW2, so expect to see a lot of Ukrainians, Germans, Chechens, etc. living there throughout the Soviet period.

I don't see the Americans or British allowing the Soviets to take land in North America. Alaska probably becomes a Russian Taiwan.

 

[Sarthak]

I don't see the Americans or British allowing the Soviets to take land in North America. Alaska probably becomes a Russian Taiwan.

If America or Britain occupies it, it could be returned like Japan returned northern Sakhalin to the USSR in return for recognition in 1933/1924.

 

[Lalli]

If America or Britain occupies it, it could be returned like Japan returned northern Sakhalin to the USSR in return for recognition in 1933/1924.

I doubt that highly. If it becomes remnant state of white government, I can't simply see USA or Britain letting Soviets re-conquering that place. Nixon didn't completely abandoned Taiwan when he formed relations with PRC. So I doubt that USA or even in lesser degree Britain would do that.

 

[TheCrimsonPaw]

I think that Turtledove's "Liberating Alaska", would occur during the Allies Intervention in the Russian Civil War.

 

[CASSICTOR2]

I think that Turtledove's "Liberating Alaska", would occur during the Allies Intervention in the Russian Civil War.

Yeah that correct

 

[Thomas Lloyd]

Probably the same demographics as the rest of Russian Siberia. You could argue that there may be less Europeans and more Alaska-Natives if Alaska doesnt fall under Soviet rule than in US Alaska, leading to an interesting cultural mix of Alaska natives making up like 30-40%. If the Soviets send deportees, that might not be the case. On the other hand, a large White emigre community would also make for an interesting case study.

 

[Sarthak]

I doubt that highly. If it becomes remnant state of white government, I can't simply see USA or Britain letting Soviets re-conquering that place. Nixon didn't completely abandoned Taiwan when he formed relations with PRC. So I doubt that USA or even in lesser degree Britain would do that.

Interwar USA and Britain were very different. It's not likely I agree, but Japan returning Sakhalin was just as unlikely yet happened.

 

[AsukaEMP]

Interwar USA and Britain were very different. It's not likely I agree, but Japan returning Sakhalin was just as unlikely yet happened.

I mean... Japan returning northern Sakhalin really wasn't that unlikely. It was only a comparatively small and sparsely inhabited territory that was right off the Russian coast. It was constantly under threat of a soviet attack and the investment needed to protect it would never have been worth the economic returns. When Japan handed it back in 1925 they did so with the condition of getting concessions in the area + the recognition of trade agreements and concessions made by the Russian Empire. Japan needed those because they severely lacked resources in their own territories. They rid themselves of all the burdens that came with an occupation and retained all of the financial benefits.

What are the Soviets going to do to threaten Alaska? Nothing. The Pacific fleet was non-existent at this point and even if they were to try and rebuild it it would pale in comparison to any other naval power in the Pacific. Even the Dutch fleet in the East Indies was several times stronger. Are they going to cut off all trade relations with the two biggest industries in the world? Are they going to deprive themselves from American grain exports that they so relied on? No, that'd be suicide.​

 

[Terço]

Wouldn't the whites migrate en masse to Alaska after the reds victory?
I'm assuming this because the OP didn't mentioned any change in Russia proper so the communists still take control of the Russian Empire, I guess.

 

[Onedotman]

Honestly, I don't think that Alaska wouldn't be able to remain Russian for long. By the time of the Alaskan Purchase, Alaska was of barely any use to Russia: transportation and logistics are extremely difficult, the weather harsh and the fur trade long been declining. I also doubt that the Tsars would ever mind about investing in and developing Alaska. Once the Gold Rush happens, Alaska is going to receive an influx of American and Canadian miners, which would be an ideal pretext for annexation by the US or Canada.

However, with the right PODs, we could have Alaska ending up as a Russian Quebec with a plurality/majority of the population being settlers from the Russian Empire. Alaska's cold climate and lack of arable land wouldn't be that appealing to immigrants (especially those from European Russia or Ukraine), but AFAIK the conditions there are probably not that different from Siberia.

 

[AsukaEMP]

Once the Gold Rush happens, Alaska is going to receive an influx of American and Canadian miners, which would be an ideal pretext for annexation by the US or Canada.

Yeah I fully agree with this in general, once a gold rush happens there are always going to be way more Americans and Canadians moving in than ethnic Russians so the most likely scenario is that Alaska faces the same fate as California or Hawaii. Americans move in, declare a republic, and join the USA. Even if they don't join the USA Alaska is still going to end up with a predominantly Anglophone population, a smaller Russian one, and then natives.

 

[Sarthak]

I mean... Japan returning northern Sakhalin really wasn't that unlikely. It was only a comparatively small and sparsely inhabited territory that was right off the Russian coast. It was constantly under threat of a soviet attack and the investment needed to protect it would never have been worth the economic returns. When Japan handed it back in 1925 they did so with the condition of getting concessions in the area + the recognition of trade agreements and concessions made by the Russian Empire. Japan needed those because they severely lacked resources in their own territories. They rid themselves of all the burdens that came with an occupation and retained all of the financial benefits.

What are the Soviets going to do to threaten Alaska? Nothing. The Pacific fleet was non-existent at this point and even if they were to try and rebuild it it would pale in comparison to any other naval power in the Pacific. Even the Dutch fleet in the East Indies was several times stronger. Are they going to cut off all trade relations with the two biggest industries in the world? Are they going to deprive themselves from American grain exports that they so relied on? No, that'd be suicide.​

No it really. In 1924, an ordnance of annexation had already been issued with the Japanese Diet voting in favor of it. They returned annexed territory to the USSR and the USSR had written it off as lost, having recalled its troops from the Amur River mouth in early 1924 with only a token 200 man garrison in Komsomolsk 500 kilometers away. It was the recognition of the USSR and cold pragmatism as well as Takaaki being an isolationist that turned Northern Sakhalin back into the hands of the USSR. Petropavlovsk was the home of the northern portion of the Russian Pacific Fleet, and around the same distance between Vladivostok-Sakhalin and Petropavlovsk-Alaska when Vladivostok was used to threaten Japan in late 1923. Furthermore, America was even more isolationist than Japan and an inquiry had been made in otl 1933 to return any accidentally occupied islands in the Bering Strait back to the USSR. So it is, while still not likely, not unlikely either.