Delightful Detroit! Always Amazing!*

Franz Josef II

*as read in alt - history travel brochure*

So, I have an alternate history challenge for all you honorable denizens:

Have Detroit remain (or become?) the pearl of the Great Lakes. Prior to the City's downfall, it was home to some of the most beautiful architecture and lavish neighborhoods in the United States which had, in fact, been cultivated by both the wealthy and civic leaders to underscore the importance of Detroit in Michigan and the US. Now, I am sure that most of us are very aware of the collapse of Detroit and the tragic urban decay (both material and moral).

I would be interested to know what you guys (or gals!) think could have happened so as to maintain its beauty and vivacity.
 

Bad@logic

Why make a boring, delightful city? Plenty of those exist in other parts of the country. Instead, make something interesting like Detroit as a center of tourism for those who are interested in post-apocalyptic societies. Aren't those fallout games rather popular? You can have entire sections of the city remodeled to look like burnt out sections after civil order and the economy collapses, which wouldn't even take a lot of work. You can also have GM and other car companies move back, building armored cars. The children would love it, it would be like Jamestown with the period recreation but on an entire city level.

/post of humor of course, but the situation is rather complex since you have to deal with a whole host of problems that have afflicted our modern American cities.
 

sciscisciortino

Latest POD? Make as many of the countries the US outsources to as possible implode, so manufacturing stays domestic, and make sure the Big 3 don't do anything stupid. The suburbs are still gonna happen, the Japanese will still get a foothold and jobs will still leak to the south, but it won't be as bad.
 

SactoMan101

Two POD's to make this possible:

1. We don't have Manuel "Matty" Moroun try to monopolize the crossing between Detroit and Windsor, ON and there are multiple bridge/tunnel crossings across the Detroit River, making it possible to turn Detroit into a gigantic center of cross-border trade between Canada and the USA much earlier.

2. Detroit diversifies into other types of transportation manufacturing, such as building passenger rail cars for commuter rail and light rail systems.
 

Panica

sciscisciortino said:
Latest POD? Make as many of the countries the US outsources to as possible implode, so manufacturing stays domestic, and make sure the Big 3 don't do anything stupid. The suburbs are still gonna happen, the Japanese will still get a foothold and jobs will still leak to the south, but it won't be as bad.
Click to expand...

... And model city program is not implemented. UAW implements West German policy. - We want better wages- lets work together.

And going for Electronic industry - PCs, TVs would help..
 
MrP

MrP

Banned
Could the defense industry take up the slack of declining car manufacturing?
 

Escape Zeppelin

SactoMan101 said:
Two POD's to make this possible:

1. We don't have Manuel "Matty" Moroun try to monopolize the crossing between Detroit and Windsor, ON and there are multiple bridge/tunnel crossings across the Detroit River, making it possible to turn Detroit into a gigantic center of cross-border trade between Canada and the USA much earlier.

2. Detroit diversifies into other types of transportation manufacturing, such as building passenger rail cars for commuter rail and light rail systems.
Click to expand...

Good ideas. Really Detroit's biggest problem is that they put all their eggs in the automotive manufacturing basket. Pittsburgh managed to pull out of the post-industrial decline by diversifying but Detroit doubled down on the automotive sector and it crushed them. Banking seems like an opportune industry to attract. Lots of incentives and Detroit gets to be a banking center instead of a rising city like Charlotte.

I'd also move the highways so they don't cut right through downtown which makes revitalizing easier and step up police presence like NYC did to get crime under control and reduce the white-flight that killed property values and tax revenue. Then with some white collar jobs from banking and crime under control you start gentrifying the areas around downtown. That in turn starts attracting more businesses who see Detroit's downtown as hip and young.
 
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Expat

Either you need to stop the rich from fleeing Detroit, or you could merge Wayne County with the city so that tax revenue stays in the same pot. Of course the rich fled beyond the boundaries of Wayne as well, but it's a start.

Diversified manufacturing is also a good idea, and better transpo links with Canada. But urban flight is the main culprit.
 

jahenders

Banned
I think the building of more bridges for Canadian commerce would help, as would diversifying the industry and, perhaps, spreading it out a bit more.

However, I think the biggest thing would be for city (and to some degree, state) government to have a different mindset decades back. They got lots of money in taxes and they then spent them to ensure their own jobs, paying very high wages to heavily unionized city workers (who, in turn, elect whoever will keep the money flowing). They also provided generous welfare-type benefits (again all but buying votes), which encouraged an influx of poor, unskilled (and sometimes criminal) folks. Once they got there, it was just a pyramid scheme to try to keep everything funded and, when the tax income faltered, it collapsed.

If instead, that government had been frugal in wages and benefits and, instead invested more in tourism, in diversification, and culture, Detroit would be a very different place. Basically, Detroit was rarely ever a place where someone would say, "I live in Detroit because there's nowhere else I'd rather live." Rather, it was a place where people said, "I live in Detroit because I can get a good job there or an easy government job."
 

Franz Josef II

I have read that the huge union wages acted as a one of the primary catalysts for the fall of the auto industry in Detroit - that because the manufacturers had to pay so much, they were unable to remain competitive. Is this true? If so, would it be possible to prevent the unions from becoming so powerful?
 

Kung Fucious

SactoMan101 said:
Two POD's to make this possible:

1. We don't have Manuel "Matty" Moroun try to monopolize the crossing between Detroit and Windsor, ON and there are multiple bridge/tunnel crossings across the Detroit River, making it possible to turn Detroit into a gigantic center of cross-border trade between Canada and the USA much earlier.

2. Detroit diversifies into other types of transportation manufacturing, such as building passenger rail cars for commuter rail and light rail systems.
Click to expand...

Escape Zeppelin said:
Good ideas. Really Detroit's biggest problem is that they put all their eggs in the automotive manufacturing basket. Pittsburgh managed to pull out of the post-industrial decline by diversifying but Detroit doubled down on the automotive sector and it crushed them. Banking seems like an opportune industry to attract. Lots of incentives and Detroit gets to be a banking center instead of a rising city like Charlotte.

I'd also move the highways so they don't cut right through downtown which makes revitalizing easier and step up police presence like NYC did to get crime under control and reduce the white-flight that killed property values and tax revenue. Then with some white collar jobs from banking and crime under control you start gentrifying the areas around downtown. That in turn starts attracting more businesses who see Detroit's downtown as hip and young.
Click to expand...

Good thoughts. Basically, Detroit needs to find other economic avenues besides auto-manufacturing, because once the bottom falls out of that (and it will), they're screwed. Pittsburgh managed to get backs on its feet by shifting to "white collar" industries like robotics and biomed, but they had a leg up doing that since they already had the universities (CMU and UPitt) to form the foundation.
 
marathag

marathag

Banned
Franz Josef II said:
I have read that the huge union wages acted as a one of the primary catalysts for the fall of the auto industry in Detroit - that because the manufacturers had to pay so much, they were unable to remain competitive. Is this true? If so, would it be possible to prevent the unions from becoming so powerful?
Click to expand...

Wasn't so much the pay, as abysmal build quality, plus the absurd pay levels.

Was it sabotage to 'forget' to fill the rear axle with oil or wheel bearings without any grease, or just bad Q/C?

Union guys thought they were sticking it to the Suits by doing that.

But by 1972, there were plenty of Imports to choose from, and customers didn't have to worry about 'Monday' or 'Friday' build dates to avoid.

So people voted with their feet, right over to the Datsun Dealership
 

jahenders

Banned
Certainly, it was a combination. If you have low quality, but are cheap, you might get by. Likewise if you're expensive but great. However, if your quality is marginal or variable AND you cost as much as other companies of higher quality (real and/or perceived), you're in trouble.

Detroit is definitely another example of unions eventually hurting their people -- the car companies couldn't maintain enough market share to retain all of their factories so they closed some and they chose ones where wages were high, labor difficult, and where it would be very expensive to modernize (due to wages, taxes, training, etc).

marathag said:
Wasn't so much the pay, as abysmal build quality, plus the absurd pay levels.

Was it sabotage to 'forget' to fill the rear axle with oil or wheel bearings without any grease, or just bad Q/C?

Union guys thought they were sticking it to the Suits by doing that.

But by 1972, there were plenty of Imports to choose from, and customers didn't have to worry about 'Monday' or 'Friday' build dates to avoid.

So people voted with their feet, right over to the Datsun Dealership
Click to expand...
 
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