Decades of Darkness

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Jared, Nov 29, 2004.

  1. Jared Voldemort Jnr

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    The scale on the world map may be a little off. Niagara state was formed with its border at the OTL counties of Cayuga, Onondaga, Cortland and western Broome (the Cortland-Chenango border extended due south), and with the capital at Geneva. Long Island state consists of Long Island, New York City, Staten Island, and the counties of Bronx, Westchester and Rockland.

    More broadly, yes, it makes sense of New York, New Jersey, Connecticut (or most of it) and parts of southern Hudson to be drawn into a southern, mostly urbanised region.

    That analysis makes sense. I'd add that while there is likely to be a big western Massachusetts statehood movement, I'm not sure whether it would get enough traction to be approved. The ATL split of New York state was a combination of the OTL statehood split sentiments, but with the disproportionate weight of New York state in ATL New England politics meaning that there was strong federal support for the split as well. (New York City more or less decided the presidency, due to the high population and the electoral college giving the overall state high weight, and New York City's higher population outvoting upstate New Yorkers.) The federal sentiment to split Massachusetts would be much weaker.

    Rural areas in New England are in general more conservative, though it depends on the issue. The reason that Vermont and New Hampshire were socialist in the Vitalist era was that they were the strongholds of the old Federalists (conservatives), but that the Federalists were discredited due to supporting Mullins into the presidency, so they switched to the Socialists as the only viable alternative. Their Socialism had a rather values-driven streak, with a focus on philanthropy, helping out people in need, and so forth.

    Political affiliations have certainly changed from their OTL equivalents in some respects. That said, TTL still has Catholic areas being more anti-Prohibition; that was touched on in chapter #109 (footnote 4).

    This varies depending on what point in time they're being compared to. For the first few decades, New England had a higher population than in OTL, due to a higher proportion of European immigration to North America going there rather than the *USA, and because some New Englanders stayed home ITTL rather than migrating west as they did in OTL, since that would have been into parts of the *USA. Later on, lower birth rates (due to higher urbanisation) and greater willingness of some continental European migrants to go to the *USA means that they decline compared to OTL.
     
  2. Dominic Well-Known Member

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    What's the cultural relationship between the major players of the Silent War like by the 50's? Is there much consumption of say German or Russian music/literature/film in either those two powers or in the other "civilised" nations like New England or Australia? Unlike OTLs Cold War the cultural differences between the major powers is probably quite a bit less, if only thanks to everyone being essentially market capitalist/consumer societies. Or do tensions still spoil this?
     
  3. Max Sinister Retired Myriad Club Member

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    Yes, I meant later on.
     
  4. Grouchio Well-Known Member

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    BTW do you think it would be possible to replicate this timeline in EU4 or Victoria 2?
     
  5. Jared Voldemort Jnr

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    The economic differences between the powers are less than in OTL, but the language barriers are still quite significant. Everyday New Englanders and Australians aren't any notably more multilingual than they are in OTL. *Americans are more multilingual, but only in Spanish and (to a lesser degree) Portuguese, which doesn't help much in terms of consumption of German or Russian media and literature. Germans and Russians are more inclined to be multilingual than anglophones, so there is still some transmission of literature, music and film there. Also, sporting relationships do exist between the various powers, with the notable exception of Australia and *America.

    On the whole, there is nothing like the overwhelming dominance of American culture around the world, partly because English doesn't have the same global dominance, and partly because of a sense of nationalism. There's more of the film and musical equivalents of, say, Indian and Chinese film industries - very large local markets, but much less transmission of films and music to other parts of the world. Literature is not quite as siloed, because translations of the written word are more accepted, but even then, there's still a significant sense of separation.

    Possibly, though I haven't played either game. (I played EU1, many years ago, and never had much of an interest in the sequels). From memory, someone was considering a Victoria 1 scenario a long time ago, but was having difficulty managing the indentured aspects of the *American economy, since that assumed that slaves could only work in agriculture. I don't know if the same problem exists in Vicky 2.
     
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  6. Dominic Well-Known Member

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    Would there be a strong connection between Australia and New England culturally speaking then? Quite different societies in some ways but with a lot in common including of course language, as well as certain Bad Things in their recent pasts... bit of an odd couple situation.
     
  7. Mr.J Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you would have to mod Vicky II to allow slaves to work in factories. And to allow them to enslave non-accepted cultures (some mods do this already IIRC) And you would have to put in event chains or cores to allow the US to take over most of the Americas without running into constant Containment Wars due to infamy. TBH you would need some heavy railroading/event chains to get Russia and Germany to achieve their TTL growth from TTL's 1836 regularly, too. It is all doable but wouldn't be easy.
     
  8. DanMcCollum P-WI

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    I would so so, play that!
     
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  9. 245 Well-Known Member

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    I feel that you should put a table of content.
     
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  10. Jared Voldemort Jnr

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    Do you mean the new threadmark feature which is added here, or a table of contents to the text version on the DoD website?

    I do plan to add threadmarks at some point, it's just that it's a time-consuming exercise and my online time has been spent elsewhere at the moment. It took a while for me to get the threadmarks up for my more active TLs.
     
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  11. Jacob.OBrien Banned

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    Hey Jared the PDF the full DoD will not open,is their another version or some other way to see the very start of this TL?
     
  12. CaliBoy1990 A bright future is still possible! =) Donor

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    Hi, Jacob. There's also an RTF version that can be found here, if you'd like.
     
  13. Jacob.OBrien Banned

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    Thanks I finally got it running with scribe!
     
  14. Ridwan Asher Jungle Arab

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    Just a quick question here:

    What has made Russia so strong ITTL? I tried looking in the word file of the TL for any mention of Russian early reform such as successful Decembrist revolution or anything similar but I couldn't find anything. Since I think an early modernization and industrialization would be required to achieve such a strong, bloated and liberalized Russia.
     
  15. HIM Dogson Rationally Royalist

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    I think it was a Decembrist-esque Revolution after Russia was beaten by Germany in the Second Napoleonic Wars.
     
  16. Lascaris Well-Known Member

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    That the triple monarchy was willing to pay the price to get it on their side and the Entente was not.
     
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  17. Jared Voldemort Jnr

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    A complicated sequence of events, but essentially started because in TTL, the equivalent of the (very slight) liberalising/modernising tendencies of the 1860s and 1870s - emancipation of the serfs, beginning of railways, formation of first local (not federal) Dumas etc - was not interrupted by the assassination of OTL Alexander II. Instead, the defeat of the Second Napoleonic Wars led to an attempted revolution and the creation of a Duma with some power. From there, things continued, with the Duma gradually gaining more power, and various strands of modernisation developing over time. (If you're searching in the rtf document, the critical moments of transition were addressed in post #84c and #86).

    The other big difference was that Russia was fortunate enough to survive the great demographic disasters of the twentieth century - WW1, the famines and purges which followed, and WW2 - so it is demographically in a much stronger position. There have been bloody wars and deaths in TTL's Russia, of course - Second Napoleonic Wars, Great War, and others - but the net demographic effects have been much more positive.

    Russia is also only liberal for a given value of liberal; by OTL liberal standards they are liberal in some areas but not in others (indirect elections, for instance).
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
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  18. Dominic Well-Known Member

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    @Jared thanks to Trump the next few years are going to be peak season for the anti-American literature market, in particular in Aus. Ideal time to publish DoD.
     
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  19. damein fisher This bad boy can fit so many maps in it

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    I'd buy a Decades of Darkness book
     
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  20. pattontank12 Better Dead than Red!

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    Same here!