Decades of Darkness

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Jared, Nov 29, 2004.

  1. Vornado Well-Known Member

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    Decolinization will happen but not in the same was as OTL. A gradual shifting responsibilities to natives followed by 'independence'. It is doubtful many nation's will be truly independent because they cannot leave the sphere they exist in.
     
  2. NiGHTS SEELE-13

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    So, neocolonialism?
     
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  3. Dominic Well-Known Member

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    I would not stretch the USSR analogies far. The *US still has far more in common with the OTL US than it does the OTL USSR, most significantly being the incredibly strong hold that the idea of 'America' (or *America) has on the citizens of that country. The *USA has more legitimacy in their eyes than the USSR ever could in the eyes of Russians, Ukrainians, etc, as it is synonymous with their nation. All of the territories ruled by the *US are going to be tied to it by political, economic, and military forces. It's certainly possible that large territories will be dominated by a small number of wealthy men, but they are more likely to do so with the backing and support of the US government than in opposition to it. This USA exists to enrich its upper class, an upper class which has seen rather enormous benefits from working together as a single state. As for locals having their own autonomy, with the kind-of sort-of exception of Chile there is no reason to think that any of them will not be dominated by 'white' Americans. Chile would be extremely lucky to get an Argentina-style deal wherein it causes no trouble for the US and in return runs itself. It will never be independent so long as the USN dominates South American waters.
     
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  4. xsampa Well-Known Member

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    Will Islamism have any role to play in the Silent War? I'm talking about one faction backing an Islamist group to spite the other, and allowing them to gain control over a country.
     
  5. Grand Prince Paul II. Xenophobic Russian Agent, pro-Europa

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    Just because the empire that conquered them is named after their shared continent, it does not make it synonymous with their nation.
    If anything, the legitimacy of the *USA among tets, peons and slaves is going to be weaker than the legitimacy of the USSR among Soviet citizens.
     
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  6. Dominic Well-Known Member

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    It almost certainly will be - I specfically was talking about US citizens.
     
  7. xsampa Well-Known Member

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    If the *US manages to coopt the Chileans on the basis of shared whiteness and perks for collaboration, combined with indoctrination and purges of *nationalists, it can expect to see a loyal Chile within a generation or so.
     
  8. Lascaris Well-Known Member

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    The timeline ends with O'Brien being inaugurated as president of the United States. That's the good fellow who start directly enslaving non-American whites. Of course he's supposed to be an improvement over his opponent who proposed outright killing them and making einsatzgruppen, sorry kill squads in DTL a permanent feature. So colour me unconvinced.
     
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  9. xsampa Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of conquered territories, would the US be able to conquer *Nigeria if Portugal collapsed?
     
  10. Vornado Well-Known Member

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    I think O'Brian enslaved the Canadians as a political manuever to embarrass his opponents and raise his profile when he was recalled. I doubt he will extend it any further as president as it undermines the *US' message of putting everyone in racial order. Furthermore O'Brian himself is the byproduct of co-opting local whites so he knows the importance of it the way his opponet may have forgotten.

    I doubt the US would want it. It has nothing of value for them. They already have an unlimited labor force and as it is alluded to in the TL mechanization is going to eliminate many unskilled jobs. There are also no natural resources the US needs from it. The only major Nigerian resource I know of is oil and the US has all it needs in Texas and Venezuela.

    Additionally the terrority gained would create other problems. Both the Germans and the British Remnant would be unhappy with American expansion. Perhaps most important is the resistance that the locals would have to the American forces. It could quite easily be worse than the other resistance movements they have faced in their past.
     
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  11. xsampa Well-Known Member

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    If the US doesn't annex Nigeria, how would it develop as a part of a much larger Kingdom under Portuguese rule?
     
  12. xsampa Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know if/where there is a map detailing the political ideologies of the various countries in DoD? I swear I saw one.
     
  13. Dominic Well-Known Member

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    Probably with an extreme level of German influence. Portugal on its own would be unable to stem Imperial influence, which with it's essentially non-racist/anti colonialist foreign policy has some pretty strong cards to play. Nigeria is valuable enough that the Germans would make sure this influence was minimised. It probably becomes autonomous in a generation or so.
     
  14. Max Sinister Retired Myriad Club Member

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    Probably hidden in the Maps & Graphics forum.
     
  15. Kevin R. Naked Florida Man

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    We'd probably see Germany use Portugal and Aragon (the owners of the Congo) as proxies for imperialism in sub-Saharan Africa. Given that they're already trying to hold down their European and North African vassals, they probably don't want to get bogged down in it themselves, but the continent's too valuable to simply leave to the other great powers. Plus, while both Portugal and Aragon hold a great deal of imperial wealth on paper, their metropoles are small and vulnerable to invasion by Germany if they decide that they have ideas above their station. We'll probably see Germany effectively bankrolling the Portuguese and Aragonese colonial forces, hoping to keep both the Restored Empire from spreading further into Africa and the leaders of Portugal and Aragon (especially local colonial elites, who are much further from German guns than the people in the metropole) from getting the idea that the *US might be a better bet to help them save their empires.

    Of course, OTL's US didn't want to get involved in South Vietnam, and wanted to use local forces as proxies for its anti-communist efforts, and look how that ended up. West and Central Africa are probably going to be a mess of proxy wars.
     
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