DBWI: What if French intervention in the American rebelion?
- Thread starter Xgentis
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Titus_Pullo
Banned
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it would complete the bankruptcy of the French state and who knows maybe just maybe it would have caused a French revolution. I know that a French Revolution sounds so far-fetched as it merits ridicule, but come on people, is the notion of a French revolution so wankish in the alternate history genre?
Well, French finances weren't so good, but a revenge war with Britain could have had appeal.
Of course, that's only if the Rebels had shown some real success early on. Saratoga comes to mind, of course, but it is not the only possible turning point.
Even a more successful defence around Philadelphia could have worked, for instance.
Of course, that would have derailed the War of Bavarian Succession in some strange way I don't dare to describe.
Of course, that's only if the Rebels had shown some real success early on. Saratoga comes to mind, of course, but it is not the only possible turning point.
Even a more successful defence around Philadelphia could have worked, for instance.
Of course, that would have derailed the War of Bavarian Succession in some strange way I don't dare to describe.
Do we browse the same site? Half of the French TLs have some sort of civil war or revolution deposing the monarchy. Granted, most of these do take place after the crisis of 1824; I think most of the criticism about revolutionary timelines comes from reaction against cliché, to be honest.
That said, I'm not convinced. There were so many vying anti-monarchist factions among the nobility at the time that the monarchy IOTL was able to crush them all separately. At best, we would see a military coup.
Yes it's been overdone. I don't know why everyone want to take down the french monarchy so mutch but won't touch the others europeans monarchy.
My guess is that since it is the most powerful country in Europe everyone is jealous of us and wants to bring us down!
Well the House of Braganza generally gets a rough time but then that's inevitable.
You Frenchman think your so great but if it wasn't for the alliance with Germans and the Habsburg Crown you would actually have a border you need to worry about. The Holy Alliance between the French, Germans, Spain, and Italy has made sure you can colonize in peace.My guess is that since it is the most powerful country in Europe everyone is jealous of us and wants to bring us down!
The Rebellion ultimately would decide whether the United Kingdom would rule a smaller empire or find itself as simply the oldest Provence of the American Empire.
If the UK somehow lost the American Rebellion, there would be no moving the English crown to Boston. Frankly, the American Empire would never be born. By 1830 the inhabitants of the American Colonies outnumbered those of Great Britain itself. The decision to relocate the government closer to its seat of power was just a formality--this was richer, more powerful and more central to run.
Of course, we all joke about Britain and Ireland not being part of Europe; but that's because they've been run from Boston for nearly two centuries. Either way, America is going to be a great power. If the great mistake had somehow succeeded, America, Britain, Canada and the West Indies would all have diverged into different identities, instead of a less pronounced regionalism.
There would be serious problems to follow. The Proclamation of 1763 was an attempt to stop violence against Indians; many of those rebels in the great mistake--including that farciful figure Jefferson--owned slaves. With Good English leanings towards Free Labor and the OTL direction to manumission, we dealt with Slavery on an expensive but permanent basis. How could a Confederated States with cotton as its major crop and half run by slaveholders move in that direction?
If France had thrown in on the revolution, they'd lose as hard as they did in the Seven Year's War.
If the UK somehow lost the American Rebellion, there would be no moving the English crown to Boston. Frankly, the American Empire would never be born. By 1830 the inhabitants of the American Colonies outnumbered those of Great Britain itself. The decision to relocate the government closer to its seat of power was just a formality--this was richer, more powerful and more central to run.
Of course, we all joke about Britain and Ireland not being part of Europe; but that's because they've been run from Boston for nearly two centuries. Either way, America is going to be a great power. If the great mistake had somehow succeeded, America, Britain, Canada and the West Indies would all have diverged into different identities, instead of a less pronounced regionalism.
There would be serious problems to follow. The Proclamation of 1763 was an attempt to stop violence against Indians; many of those rebels in the great mistake--including that farciful figure Jefferson--owned slaves. With Good English leanings towards Free Labor and the OTL direction to manumission, we dealt with Slavery on an expensive but permanent basis. How could a Confederated States with cotton as its major crop and half run by slaveholders move in that direction?
If France had thrown in on the revolution, they'd lose as hard as they did in the Seven Year's War.
The War of the Bavarian Succession is likely to happen; the Joseph II will want revenge for the 1740s, if for no other reason. I could see a much smaller and shorter war, though. As in OTL, Britain has colonial problems, so their support for Prussia and Saxony will be limited. If France is involved in the American rebellion, they could renege on their commitments to Austria. If Russia stays out as well, it might not be the mess it was IOTL.
OOC: Why Boston? I'm doing research for United Kingdom of North America timeline, but I put the new capitol in New York City.
Makes you wonder why the colonists bothered to rebel in the first place. At the time of the rebelion they already were the richest part of the empire and had large and fast growing cities. Despite the talk of the "burdensome taxes" it had among the highest standards of living on the planet. OOC: This is all true OTL folks.
It was an alliance of necessity with the Russian launching an invasion twice each time barely repelled. I have relative that died in both war.
It has happened. It's the country's desire for revenge against Britain.
Repelled? Maybe for the members of your holy alliance, but the Turks and Poles might have a bone to pick with you about calling the Russian invasions "repelled."
The only result of the French intervening in the American rebelion would be that Britain gain Louisiana a couple of decades earlier (and maybe the French lose their outposts in India). Britain was a worldpower and could have defeated the French in America quite easily at the same time as they defeated the American rebels.
Also I don't buy the "French revolution" idea. The monarchy is too much part of the French culture, they won't get rid of it just because of some financial problems. France had those problems OTL anyway and they manage that without a revolution. Turning France into a republic is about as unlikely as turning the Netherlands into a monarchy. It just won't happen.
Also I don't buy the "French revolution" idea. The monarchy is too much part of the French culture, they won't get rid of it just because of some financial problems. France had those problems OTL anyway and they manage that without a revolution. Turning France into a republic is about as unlikely as turning the Netherlands into a monarchy. It just won't happen.
Let's imagine for a moment that France does intervene and ultimately sets it self up on a self-destructive path. How would the rest of Europe stand agaisnt the giant known as Russia with out the Holy alliance? Sure, they have less economic strength, and lower standard of military/ and quality of life and so forth. But the beast is impenetrable. Trying to invade a land that can forever retreat and has such large numbers that they don't care when they throw them away is downright scary. If the Holy Alliance can't come together who can stand against that ungodly beast.