DBWI: What if China has not been Christianized?

Yinglong Fujun

King Helü of Wu said:
Brothers, I was quite pissed when a New Confucian attacked the Church of China by describing pagan China as a some sort of utopian paradise.

I compared the unsophisticated lifestyle of the archbishop of Beijing with the decadent lives of the former Emperors, and he said:" Well, fanatics always put on a mask of simplicity, but look at what happened to our great civilization after Christianity plagued our land!'

What do you guys think would happen to China had Christianity NOT been introduced? I mean how would the country be like cultural-wise, scientific-wise, economic-wise, military wise, and moral wise etc., had the country been 95% pagan, other than 95% christian?
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First, to avoid conflict of interest, I must first say I am a moderate New Confucian myself. I do feel regretful for what the fellow said. I worked with some people who are more radical than me in the Department of Confucian Studies in Beijing CC University for a while and I know they can very outspoken. Then again, the word 'pagan' is a bit loaded, and I would be really gracious if you can use the word 'Chinese Traditional Beliefs' instead.

Back on topic, I know that many people would say most of the western innovations we have now would have never found ways into China if Christianity never took root here. I must respectfully disagree. New Confucianism itself is a response to the spread of Christianity and challenges to our tenets that it brought, and so far I think the moral guidance of The Analects is still relevant after we threw out the more frilly practices of ours. Who says something similar cannot happen with less, um, intense contact between faiths? Under more limited contact, useful western technologies can be gradually introduced under wiser emperors, with traditional beliefs still being retained, and I have full confidence that Confucianism could adapt itself to modern times without needing to be nearly wiped.

OOC: Oops, you have cleaned your 'background' info, never mind that then.:p
 

mikegold

I suppose we might see China instead go Muslim, Jewish, or Zoroastrian, depending on the POD. Is there any possibility that Chinese Paganism could survive long term?

Another interesting thought: we would probably never see the Incan concessions, and that has the potential to avert the entire Vinlandic crisis. Maybe a longer-lasting Republique de St.-Germaine as a result?
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
It's impossible. Jesus himself ordered his Apostles to spread the Christian faith. If China hadn't been Christianized it would have received God's rightful judgement and perished.
 

Jake Day

One wonders what would have happened to the great Nestorian theologians Deng Xiaoping and Fang Lizhi. Or the great Catholic Saint Ci Xi, world renowned for her work with the poor. Or the Jinist* missionary Feng Jidu Peter (or Jin Mark himself, for that matter).

One wonders about politics as well. What would have happened to the tribes indigenous to Tibet and Sinkiang and Mongolia and Fusang**? They might not exist had not the ecumenical Million Friends Committee stopped the brutal policies of Emperor Chen the Apostate.

Would there have even been a Fusang? I can't see a non-Christian China being sufficiently united or prosperous to pursue colonial adventures.

OOC:
*kind of like OTL Pentecostalism, but starting in China instead of the US.
**OTL Cascadia
 

QuoProQuid

Are we assuming Punjab and the Aryavartan states remain Christian or are we removing the religion from Asia as a whole? One is deeply connected to the other. I'm not sure you can still have a Christian East but keep China practicing the old faith. It's just a matter of whether China is converted by the sword or scroll.
 
Maponus

Maponus

This might butterfly the bloody war with the Japanese and the Koreans that left China is such a state in the 30's.
 

King Helü of Wu

Banned
Maponus said:
This might butterfly the bloody war with the Japanese and the Koreans that left China is such a state in the 30's.
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It's a costly war, but at least we saved Korea from the samurais.

Pyongyang is called a Oriental Jerusalem today, and I felt at home when I visited the city. Seoul is mainly Confucian though.

Korean Christians and Confucians can live in peace today, in contrary to Japan.

I feel sad for the Japanese, their obsession with their "national essence" keeps them away from God, and for them the sore purpose of modernization is to have the power to resist christian influences. But how can we have true modernity without Christianity?
 
BootOnFace

BootOnFace

They seemed to be modern enough to kick China's ass. :p It wasn't Japan that had it's northern half occupied for half a decade. It took China's Christian buddies from Russia to even kick them out.
 
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