Look we have tech, really good tech we lead the world in electronics, engineering and science for a reason, but the sad hard truth is that you need fighting spirit to really thrive on the modern battlefield and we really don't have that. The Germans, Japanese even the french have a warrior tradition we have a tradition of citazen soligiers. Oh were fine for short fights but we don't have that raw will that other countries have. Theres a reason we stick to fighting in the air, or at see. We really just cant hack it at the the normal ground pounding that the imperial countries of the world excell at.
DBWI The winterwar doesn't escalate
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Yuelang
Banned
And maybe it would be far better to the world if Americans actually being world police, rather than agenerally nice pacifists who preferred trade and money making than get into the fight in defense of the powerless.
Bet that if US actually get into the fight, they would definitely get into stronger actions when Britain's wars of Indian Rebellions erupted in 1960s and actually managed to really side with the Indians over the British aggression. Those saturation chembombings is counted among the worst massacre ever commited in human history, rendering India from food producing subcontinent into the most piss poor, barren, and contaminated wasteland in the world. And for all that sins, US actually satisfied by just sending several strongly worded letters of protests.
Sure, the rest of Europe is practically egging Prime Minister Susan to make the Indians "pay in blood for their insolence", but perhaps with US taking stronger stance for the sake of the Indians, maybe the worst massacre of 20th century could be averted.
An active US could definitely bring a stop to the most deplorable neo-colonial adventures, but I am not sure how to bring them about.
It would certainly take a lot to piss off the US into steamroller mode. I am not even sure a direct attack on American territory might do it. Perhaps if it was a surprise attack...
Yuelang
Banned
Sadly, all the Empires that mattered (aka Britain, Germany, Japan, Italy, Persia, and China) none is stupid enough to deliberately pissing off the US government (US populance is another matter, they're anticolonialist but their govt is more pragmatic). Heck Germany, Japan, and Persia is close ally of the US now, and among those, post 1989 Germany is actually pretty nice and fully Democratic.
So maybe Britain get into their Roaring Lion mode earlier and start by sneak attack into US from Canada...
Why isn't France in there ? I know we occasionally piss people off, and we are by far those who retained most of their Empire via neocolonial means - West Africa still is the French playground - but Persia counting and not France ?
Besides, as long as Germany doesn't quit that crap Alsace-Lorraine rhetoric, I will not count them as nice.
OOC : Isn't Germany under the equivalent of Putin ?
Yuelang
Banned
Persia actually have "definitely not a colony but technically still a colony" thing running in the Persian West Arabia, who include Mecca and Medina, as well as the former Indian territory of Pashtunistan and Khasmiristan, and practically every Shia muslims own allegiance to the Shah who also the shiite caliph.
French dominance in Western Africa is actually heavily contested by Liberian led and US backed Federation of African Sovreign States, still the FAS never want to poke Britain too hard in fear of extreme imperial retalition...
Germany was Sparta reloaded before 1989. They are a strict democracy today(like OTL Singapur).
I seriously think you overestimate the FAS. I mean, they wouldn't have been able to intervene in Sahelia against the attempted coup against the democratic regime like France did.
But it's true France technically has no colonies left, since French Africa is a bunch of départements and the locals all have the citizenship and the right to vote. There may be some discrimination in the Métropole, but it is not institutionalized.
Never claimed it was at that level. I just said that it has the merit of existing.
Besides, the strategic role for which the MN was built is two-fold and based around war with the Axis.
1) Sink the KM and RM
2) Keep the Baltic and Mediterranean open to trade.
It is therefore completely inadequate for warring the US.
I think there is a reason the B5 is the best-sold heavy tank in the world and not the M-20, used by West Africa, most of the Indias and Russias, the Intermarium and the Little Entente. And even the British Commonwealth bought some.
Of course, West Africa adopted the B5 because of their being in the French sphere. Samewise, Belgium has adopted the B5 for rationalisation of supply reasons. However, the Intermarium adopted the B5 in the late 2000s after the Kola tests. You do remember their conclusions? The M-20 lacks punching power. The casemate 155mm of the B5 allows for massive damage, and the 120mm turret is comparable to the M-20's.
The M-24 only has a 125mm turret. The lack of casemate cannon, while allowing for a more flexible structure, still impacts massively the available power.
Besides, said updates have proved capable of adapting the B5 to every climate, including the frozen wastelands of the Murmansk peninsula and the sands and rocks of the Sahara. On the other side, the Japanese have reported frost-stability issues with their M-20s when exercising in Chuchotka.
Yet the USA do not take part in any kind of space exploration and use the French terminals.
I don't think you understand French assimilation. The Algerian everyman holds the same voting power as any French citizen. Do you think that if they had wanted independence that badly, they wouldn't have voted en masse for a pro-decolonisation candidate? I think that you can attribute it to the success of the Plan Tlemcen that the Algerians haven't revolted again. Seeing as they're much richer than their Moroccan, Tunisian or even Libyan neighbours, and only one third poorer than the Métropole, I'd call that a great success, especially as the split keeps reducing. Samewise, Gabon and Senegal are also converging quite rapidly.
The Front de Libération Populaire is, overall, about as annoying as the Corsican or Breton separatists, and all the independentist parties put together have less than one-tenth of the Hautecloquist or Socialist parties' membership in Senegal.
You misread it. The Concorde is a multirole fighter which we generally keep equipped with MICA missiles and - something America hasn't developped yet - Microinterceptor missiles. There is a good reason the Concorde is costly. It also has more efficient stealth equipment and can be employed for anything from bombardment to fighting.
Quite true. Just like France is the world's electricity generation and nuclear expert.
Half the US power plants and all of its current civilian nuclear power plants are French-built and French-operated. And without Thorium deliveries from Anzac and Brittany, you are in for a bad time.
Of course, all of this is purely theoretical.
Yuelang
Banned
Speaking of which, the best classic German Epic films "Leonidas" definitely highlight the VV party policies and propaganda at 1950s. Up to the scenes while a young soldiers put malformed infants and what is obviously an idiot child to the tender mercies of wild animals in the sacred forest.
But yeah, the Thermopylae fight scenes of 300 Spartans in historically accurate panoply against the Persian Hordes are definitely the best part of the epic. Still, some actually criticized the Persian attires, who suspiciously looks like historically accurate Ancient Israeli / Jewish armor and weapons insteadbof the Persian ones. Still, this is far better than British and French historical pieces that use misattributed Roman style panoply for Greeks and Saracen panoplies as generic easterners...
The other history nerds will actually thought that as brilliant touch however, as Persian army in that period are definitely coming from conquered people, and the persians are indeed using the Levantine conscripts heavily in their western campaigns..m
Yeah, that's why I'm saying you guys would be absolutely fucked in a war against the USA. The US is fundamentally a massive naval power, like 19th century Britain on serious steroids and minus the overflowing empire. You don't fuck with that when all you have is the MN.
America can if they want to produce 3 times as many M20s as you can produce B5s by simple weight of factories. Sure, the B5's a little better in some situations, but the M20 has a higher top speed and better armor, and numbers will matter eventually. It'll take them a few months to convert their industry in some areas, but they have the potential to outproduce you in every way. And two M20s versus a B5 equals a dead B5. You guys saw how badly the Soviet Union mauled Poland in 1920, and that was with serious tech deficiencies. The Polish tanks were superior to the Russian excuses for tanks in pretty much every way but sheer numbers. And look what happened to the Poles.
In a war between France and the USA, you are Poland.
...If you don't consider that asteroid-scouting mission, Intrepid, to be space exploration. Sure, they used a French rocket and facility, but it was an exploration mission. Plus there's a US astronaut, that Sotero guy with the awesome voice, on the international space station right now.
I seriously doubt those numbers. There's still an ethnic French gendarme division stationed to every major city in Algeria at all times. That's not a happy people right there.
I honestly think that the colonial powers' arrogance is going to screw them going forward. Even with France's human rights record in the colonies shaping up a bit, you guys are still huge dicks.
America has the Cobra for fighter-bomber and stealth roles. There's also those rumors of a stealth bomber, and people may laugh at peaceful America building a stealth jet, but it looks credible to me and people forget that America's built their military up so that nobody can ever fuck with their trade ever again. You really think they won't respond the same way to an invasion? Look how fast the Deccan surrendered after they put Zumwalt in charge and came out with the M-20 Eisenhower. America is a legitimate threat that EVERYONE underestimates.
Maybe in the 1980s during Carter's internationalist outreach lunacy, and even then no more than a third of US power plants and half the civilian nuclear plants (of which there were a grand total of 4) were French-operated or built. Also, note that the USA designed and build all of its nuclear carriers itself, and fuels them itself. That's what should have the French crapping their pants at night.
President Biden's energy independence policies and buyouts during the '89 economic crunch have left the USA with 12 power plants that are partially or fully foreign-owned or -operated. Meanwhile the USA owns half of Canada's industry, the entire hemisphere is pals with America, and we supply Gaia energy to half the planet. Sure, you scoff, but I don't see French power plants in Brazil or French Gaia-cars in Berlin or French Gaia-friendly solar plane prototypes being tested anywhere. Your industry is stuck in the past and America is beating you on foreign influence with its tech advancement and industrialization. They can pump out more product and better product than you can in less time, and that will absolutely screw you in a war.
And I note that nobody's come up with a convincing reason for why the President Murphy--and, indeed, the entire USN--is not absolutely a trump card against every navy in the world. Indeed, if you put the KM, RN, MN, and IJN together, that's the only way you can get a strategic advantage over the USN, and half those powers are either pals with the US, allies of convenience, or regional rivals of each other, or some combination of the above. The President Murphy has more projection power than two Yamamoto-class carriers put together. The entire USN basically exists to find someone who's fucking with the USA's constant money stream--a money stream, I should note, that has made them the absolute fucking richest country in the world, even per capita--and bomb them into the dirt so that the US can sell them more shit once they pull themselves out of the wreckage. Sure, it takes a while to get the USA to fight, and most of the people don't give a rat's ass about anything but the foreign money that's constantly pouring in since everybody wants US cars and US toys and US furniture and even US farming equipment, but if you fuck with their wallets...you only gotta look at how badly they screwed the Deccan and how fast the Deccan agreed to absolutely ruinous treaty terms that have long-term reduced them to the US's economic finger puppet in all but name, once the US got a competent officer and decent tanks out there.
Lemme put it this way. Look at Japan. Can they take on France? According to most military experts, yes, though it would probably be just as hard on Japan. Well, in a fight between the Japanese and the Americans, the Americans will sink their navy with no more than 30% casualties, which they can easily replace (especially the destroyers), knock the air force out of the sky with carrier-launched interceptors and guided missiles from destroyers, and then park the President Murphy off the Home Islands and bomb them into the Stone Age, then sell them factories and supplies to rebuild at ruinous prices.
Now imagine what that could do to France if they got pissed enough.
Its pretty hard for algerians not to be wealthier and better off then Libyan's, the Italian government has been pretty monsterious to the libyan people. I mean they have had a policy of forced sterialization since the 50s for the non christian population there. A policy of conviscation of land and property to be given to Italian mainlanders thats existed for even longer, and thats before you get into the massacers. These days the former Algerian majority only makes up 5% of the population.
I mean we give france grief over its past actions, and the british could be dicks in the colonies, but currently the Italians are by far the worst. Thank god Eithopia was able to kick them out.
I mean we give france grief over its past actions, and the british could be dicks in the colonies, but currently the Italians are by far the worst. Thank god Eithopia was able to kick them out.
While the issues in India do reflect badly on the British Empire, it's important to remember that the general idea is to progress towards some sort of larger confederation under democratic principles. Outright rebellion is not tolerated (hence India), but most African colonies at least seem to be pretty happy with the idea of a looser, more representative organisation.
It's not like the Britain can maintain a grip on its colonies without this plan, otherwise the Americans would be causing even more insurrections than they already are.
Yeah yeah, say what you want. Massacre is still a massacre. You Brits got all excited when Stalin did his Warsaw purge during the forties and then try to excuse your actions on the subcontinent. Nukeing them would have been a blessing because they would have died quicker. Germ warfare? Really? No wonder Britains are scrutinized every time they come to the states.
on those who are saying that britain couldn't hold up today.
Can I remind you, which country is the ONLY country with SSTO* technology. this basically means, Who wants relativistic Kill missiles popping down from orbit on their countries?
sure our ships aren't as large or as good and our ground forces are a tad lacking. but our air and space weaponry can more than make up for it.
*these are currently in the making in this timline and they have them damn near working. oh and by the way yes it is a British project . now imgine them being sped up due to this sort of enviroment.
Can I remind you, which country is the ONLY country with SSTO* technology. this basically means, Who wants relativistic Kill missiles popping down from orbit on their countries?
sure our ships aren't as large or as good and our ground forces are a tad lacking. but our air and space weaponry can more than make up for it.
*these are currently in the making in this timline and they have them damn near working. oh and by the way yes it is a British project . now imgine them being sped up due to this sort of enviroment.
Because Stalin got paranoid and thought nobody would care.