DBWI: No Russia/Ukraine Nuclear Exchange

Swiffness

w/ a PoD where the Budapest Memorandum talks don't fall apart and Ukraine gives up its nuclear arsenal. Putin is still in charge and still intent on reclaiming Ukraine one way or another.

Obviously this TL would be kinder to Muscovites and Kievites alike.....
 

Ziemniak

I'm not even sure if that's possible. Countries don't just willingly give up nuclear weapons once they have them. Especially not when they are under constant threat from a much larger nation. All in all, the Budapest talks were probably doomed from the start. If we really want to avoid the nuclear exchange we have to change Russian leadership to make it less aggressive.
 
Yuelang

Yuelang

Banned
hey, the death toll is horrendous, but the US-NATO invasion of Russia soon after their Nuclear signatures are seen and neutralized is something of a total success (with no nuke hit NATO area at all)

At least Russia is castrated now, they must play nice because they are totally removed from Nuclear armed nation.
 

The Uchronian

Swiffness said:
w/ a PoD where the Budapest Memorandum talks don't fall apart and Ukraine gives up its nuclear arsenal. Putin is still in charge and still intent on reclaiming Ukraine one way or another.

Obviously this TL would be kinder to Muscovites and Kievites alike.....
Click to expand...

Well, for one, Hillary Clinton might not have won in quite the landslide that she did in 2016-her warnings about Putin's instability, and against direct intervention by NATO over there(thank god Obama followed her advice, or a lot of us Americans might be dead, too.), not to mention the GOP's constant backstabbing of President Obama, and the fringe right even going so far as to praise Putin over Obama.....well, you do the math.

And, also, maybe there might still be right-wing parties in Hungary(as Jobbik and Fidesz were both banned by the new soc-dem government in 2016) so no Debrecen terror bombings on 12/30 in that year.

Not to mention that 24 of NATO's bases that were lost when one of Putin's loyalists decided to strike out at Western Europe, would still be there.

OOC: I'm going to go ahead and assume that it's now 2017(and that both Bush and Obama won their elections as IOTL), as I doubt we'd be willing to so openly talk WIs about a nuclear war in 2014 so soon after it happened, by and large. And, also, I doubt that NATO would escape unscathed; ironically, this might be due in part to the fact that MAD is not nearly as influential of a concept as it was just 25 years ago.
 

M. Adolphe Thiers

Swiffness said:
w/ a PoD where the Budapest Memorandum talks don't fall apart and Ukraine gives up its nuclear arsenal. Putin is still in charge and still intent on reclaiming Ukraine one way or another.

Obviously this TL would be kinder to Muscovites and Kievites alike.....
Click to expand...

Not to mention all the Balts, Belorussians, and Poles that got irradiated as well.
 
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