DBWI: Make the Swastika a taboo symbol

[Help]

Oh, even better: I remember while doing research for a uni project about 20th century extremism that Himmler and his goons were waaaay deep into some crazy Aryan mysticism shit. Maybe they take power and use the swastika as a symbol?

Of course, the question of how these most looniest of loons get into the Reichstag. Pandemic wipes out half of humanity or some shit?

That is a really good point. Maybe a personality cult under those? It would have to be a dystopian timeline though. I'm pretty sure Himmler was an incompetent addict in addition to his bigotry.

Or a Hindu nationalist India which commits genocide against its Muslim minority and goes on a rampage in Southeast Asia to "protect Indian minorities"?

That seems possible, but I think that is too large for genocide. Maybe though. I am unaware of Indian minorities anywhere

 

[Whiteshore]

I am unaware of Indian minorities anywhere

Well, there is a sizable Indian minority in Malaya IIRC.

 

[George Kaplan]

Could there have been any possibility of the Confederacy adopting it during the US Civil War? A tie to a pro-slavery government would taint it.

 

[Help]

Could there have been any possibility of the Confederacy adopting it during the US Civil War? A tie to a pro-slavery government would taint it.

I don't think so. The Dixie flag is still common, and I think the aristocratic Christians would not have picked that.

 

[trollolol12]

I don't think so. The Dixie flag is still common, and I think the aristocratic Christians would not have picked that.

And here is the problem with making the swastika banned by the Nazis: this was a minority group that barely lasted a year. Even if we were to make it last longer (perhaps by making Hittler survive or someone else take control of the party), in a few generations people will forget that the swastika was once the symbol of Nazism.
I think to make the swastika taboo, we need a "wicked" group that lasts for many years to use it (I think the example of the Mongols works): even if many generations pass, people will identify the swastika with that group and They are going to criminalize that symbol thanks to that.

 

[Help]

And here is the problem with making the swastika banned by the Nazis: this was a minority group that barely lasted a year. Even if we were to make it last longer (perhaps by making Hittler survive or someone else take control of the party), in a few generations people will forget that the swastika was once the symbol of Nazism.
I think to make the swastika taboo, we need a "wicked" group that lasts for many years to use it (I think the example of the Mongols works): even if many generations pass, people will identify the swastika with that group and They are going to criminalize that symbol thanks to that.

Well that would be true, but considering the insanity that group got up to, I could see them causing a WW2 against Germany instead of the Soviets by sheer stupidity. Add the utter bigotry, and maybe they could ethnically cleanse parts of Europe. Europeans dominance would render that important for decades if not centuries. Mongols are definitely the better choice though.

 

[JanWellem]

Or a Hindu nationalist India which commits genocide against its Muslim minority and goes on a rampage in Southeast Asia to "protect Indian minorities"?

You might not even need India to go Hindu nationalist long term. Just have the more extreme factions within the Hindutva movement adopt the Swastika as their symbol and then commit massacres and violent ethnic clensing of Muslims in Hindu majority areas during India's partition under the Swastika banner. Nehru cracked down pretty hard on them after one of their fanatical members tried to kill Gandhi for stating "Yes, I am a Muslim and a Hindu and a Christian and a Jew and so are all of you."

It was Gandhi's concilliatory influence, which helped prevent the worst. Imagine if the assassin had been successful and had managed, as he originally intended, to blame the Muslims for the bomb attack, that would've killed Gandhi. And later on anti-muslim terrorist groups in the West might adopt the Swastika banner as a symbol of their struggle against Muslim minorities in their countries, with the symbol appearing on mosques, after having fallen victim to far-right arsonist attacks.

 

[Help]

You might not even need India to go Hindu nationalist long term. Just have the more extreme factions within the Hindutva movement adopt the Swastika as their symbol and then commit massacres and violent ethnic clensing of Muslims in Hindu majority areas during India's partition under the Swastika banner. Nehru cracked down pretty hard on them after one of their fanatical members tried to kill Gandhi for stating "Yes, I am a Muslim and a Hindu and a Christian and a Jew and so are all of you."

It was Gandhi's concilliatory influence, which helped prevent the worst. Imagine if the assassin had been successful and had managed, as he originally intended, to blame the Muslims for the bomb attack, that would've killed Gandhi. And later on anti-muslim terrorist groups in the West might adopt the Swastika banner as a symbol of their struggle against Muslim minorities in their countries, with the symbol appearing on mosques, after having fallen victim to far-right arsonist attacks.

That is definitely a possible option. Would the anti-muslim groups not use the cross though?

 

[Whiteshore]

someone else take control of the party

Maybe have Hermann Goering remain with the Nazis after Hitler died instead of joining the DNVP?

 

[Help]

Maybe have Hermann Goering remain with the Nazis after Hitler died instead of joining the DNVP?

Did he decide the Swastika? I don't think he had the charisma though.

 

[Whiteshore]

Did he decide the Swastika? I don't think he had the charisma though.

He had war hero credentials at the very least.

 

[Byzantion]

So ya, the swastika, a well regarded symbol of peace and luck, so much so that it was adopted by the Red Cross for use in Buddhist and Hindu majority regions. Is there a way to make it develop a negative connotation?

Since it is a pre 1900 thread: Maybe The Roman Empire (The Swastika is found in many Roman mosaics) adopts the Swastika as an military symbol alongside S.P.Q.R. Maybe The Roman Empire is even more brutal (also against Christians) and revengeful and later seen as an pariah. Maybe later the Christians see the Swastika as a Pentagram like symbol.
Another scenario: During the French Revolution some ultra radical Revolutionaries take powers and chose the Swastika as their symbol. The Terror is even worse and longer.

 

[Avatar of Asura]

Maybe one of those lunatic dictators from the early 20th century could use it for crazy reasons.

What, like the Nazis, why would those D-bags want to use a logo like that, their logo was a hand grasped around the world, you can't get more evil than a flag than implies that you want the whole world in your hands.

 

[Help]

What, like the Nazis, why would those D-bags want to use a logo like that, their logo was a hand grasped around the world, you can't get more evil than a flag than implies that you want the whole world in your hands.

Maybe the cultists weirdos could use the hakenkreuz. I think Himmler was weird like that.

 

[Byzantion]

So ya, the swastika, a well regarded symbol of peace and luck, so much so that it was adopted by the Red Cross for use in Buddhist and Hindu majority regions. Is there a way to make it develop a negative connotation?

So bloody Warlord Baron von Ungern-Sternberg picks up the Swastika as his official symbol during his reign in Manchuria. It would fit very well to his cause. Certainly the Swastika would become somewhat demonized if the bloody Baron stays in power a few years longer than OTL. He had been a violent war criminal with psychopathic tendencies and a fanatic Antisemit. Although claimed to be a extremely devout Orthodox Christian he was fascinated by Asian religion mythology which he studied a lot.

 

[The Professor]

You mean Manson? I never quite understood why his group was called Charlie's Angels if he wore a swastika and not even a cross. I don't think he was so famous to warrant that major shift to a taboo. If anything, that he used a swastika spoke to his messed up head and is regarded as just an oddity.

According to my dad's navy friend (yes, I know) who used to be a CA apparently it was supposed to be a cross and dots tattoo but the artist slipped and had to even it out!